Secretly cross dressing husband

[Sadface231]

Please can I have some advice. I've been with my DH 13 years. Near the start, I was reading something about cross dressing and I said to him, I am really not into that so if he is, never tell me as I won't be OK with it.

After a couple of years I went away with work. I happened to see his Amazon account and the day I left, he ordered some hold ups. I assumed they were for me (I did used to wear them sometimes including for sex at times) but he never gave them to me. I ended up asking him and he was all vague like he didn't know where they ended up, but I never saw them.

Then about a year ago I was in the cupboards in our bedroom and looked in a bag I didn't recognise. I nearly threw up. It had tights, knickers, nail polish in there. I managed to convince myself he had done it as a trap for me to stop me snooping around (as he told me his step dad thought he was gay so he badly hid gay porn in his room to freak him out). Probably stupid of me. Anyway a while later I looked again and there was also a little skirt and a long wig added to the collection. I feel so sick even writing it down. So obviously not just a trap.

We have since moved house and these things seem to have vanished. However he has 2 packs of hold ups in the bedroom. Just in his top drawer under one thing. I feel like he wants me to find them or why wouldn't he hide them better?

I feel like I don't want to have sex with him again. Which then leads to do I want to be married to him? We have 1 DC and I have 2 older DCs he brings up with me and a very happy family. He is my best friend. But I am very repulsed by what I found.

What does anyone think?

This, you may be happier if you stop snooping and spying on people 🤷‍♀️

I think regardless of the underwear/hosiery etc your relationship is toxic. He blocks you when you try and discuss things and you are walking on eggshells most of the time. I think that he needs to come to terms with himself and his awful childhood. That is not on you, it is not your responsibility. I haven't added lying to the list because it is obviously to cover up his kinks/sexuality but it would make me concerned about your sexual health. Look after you, your children need you happy. This is just setting them up for awful future relationships.

I feel you are being disingenuous. It isn't about the cross dressing. It's about the fact he knew she had a boundary, he knew he was crossing that boundary, he still married her, and lied throughout the marriage.
Topped off by one humungous lie when she caught him ("my ex used to make me dress up and I kept the stuff" fgs)

Everyone has boundaries in relationships. There is no excuse for intentionally crossing those boundaries then making it the other person's fault that they are upset or want to end the relationship when they find out.

I used the example of an affair as its more clear cut for most people and i hoped would get you to acknowledge that his behaviour (lying, ignoring boundaries) is damaging.

But you are fixated on "the end justifies the means". I.e. his fetish means he's justified in lying and pushing boundaries.

Ironically that's the exact thought process that TinselAngel was talking about.

We have a name for the behaviour people who use their sense of entitlement to lie and push their partners boundaries. Its emotional abuse.

The nature of a fetish is that it's harmful. It's counterproductive to a relationship.

but based on the ops own words the "I am really not into that so if he is, never tell me as I won't be OK with it." ? and as far as im aware her dh, did just that kept it secret, and didnt lie as he didnt tell her ?

obviously thats based on the original ops opening

Well yeah that's true
When she found out he chose to lie though which is the real problem. And lots of posters in here are making out its in some way her fault for "making him ashamed".

As I said upthread though, he could have said "yes it's mine, I never told you because you said you didn't want to know, i should have been more discreet with my stuff" and then they could have had an open conversation.

I honestly feel like you can't read or something because you cherry pick my replies terrible.

I never said it was her fault.
I never said it was ok to lie.
I've said numerous times it's not ok to lie and it's not her fault if it makes her feel ick.

This isn't a case of the end justifies the means.

It is a case that it is understandable that if someone had a deep sexual fantasy and then it turned out that your partner had such an ick about it that they told you that it would be a deal breaker if you had that fantasy and therefore you should never tell them because they would be completely repulsed about it, that someone would not disclose they had this fantasy and would lie about it if questioned. Why would you admit something to your partner you know people think you should be ashamed of (and you likely are ashamed of it yourself) that you know would mean they were repulsed by you? Tbh I sure wouldn't.

In what ways have boundaries been ignored here?
She said to him that if he had that fetish to never tell her. So he never told her. He hasn't tried to push this on her in any way or form. She found some lingerie and he didn't own up when asked about it because he knew she'd be repulsed and then did tell her when pushed some more.

If I said to my partner it is a boundary for me and gives me the ick if you wear green t-shirts I am fairly sure you wouldn't be telling him he should never wear green t-shirts or that he was emotionally abusing me if he wore a green t-shirt and didn't tell me about it (after I told him to never tell me) and said he hadn't worn one. You would be telling me I was controlling.

Her having an ick she can't move past is fair enough and her being upset about the lying is fair enough and her deciding to leave is completely fair enough but this is a far more complex situation then some man being awful.

I'm not the most objective person as my ex cross dressed, I told him what he did in his own time was his business but I was not into it, asked if he was gay/transgender etc. We never talked about it again until we were splitting up, when it came out that he really resented me for not incorporating it into our sex life and felt I was prudish.

I did all the things the pro-crossdressing posters on here suggest and was still in the wrong because really the only acceptable answer to someone with a fetish is full engagement in the fetish by their sexual partner.

He pushed my boundaries in lots of other ways too. I wish he'd been honest that a deal breaker for him was me getting involved with his cross dressing. Because then we could have split up without breaking up a marriage/upsetting children etc.

Most relationships have a boundary around being honest with each other.
He lied.

fair points on that

Then respectfully you are projecting your own experience onto this situation.

And that's fair enough your experience is relevant and I am sure the OP would want to hear your experience and consider it, but it isn't the case that this being your experience would mean that this would automatically be the the case for OPs relationship.

Women with experience on one side are projecting, but those with experience on the other are somehow not?

I think it's time to leave this thread as I don't think it's benefitting the OP any more.

My final word though is that this is exactly why I started Trans Widows Voices- women in this situation are judged entirely differently to women in similar situations, therefore mutual support is essential.

I think we just fundamentally think different about this really. I think there is a difference between malicious lies, abusive lies, understandable lies and little lies.

For example the closest thing I can relate this situation to is about porn. I set a no porn boundary 2 years into our relationship when I found porn on his phone. I was really upset about it, got major ick and basically said I couldn't cope with him watching porn mostly because it made me feel awful about myself but also due to loads of ethical reasons. He disagreed with my reasoning. There was lots of upset and I said it would be a deal breaker. He said he'd never watch it again.

That was 10 years ago. He claims he has never watched it since. I have never found it since. But do I really believe he has never once watched porn for 10 years when he fundamentally doesn't think there is anything wrong with it? No not really. I think he probably has at some point. Im sure he's made an effort not to but I doubt he has completely abstained on my say so.

But he has, knowing that it would cause me significant hurt and upset if I asked him right now if he's watched any porn in the last 10 years I am sure he would say no. If I then found some I would be incredibly upset he has lied.

But I do think it would be an understandable lie and truthfully if he has looked at porn I'd prefer it if he lied instead of telling me about it and causing that much pain and hurt. My boundary about porn is debatably unreasonable. It's not unreasonable for me. It is a big deal for me and It is for others. If I posted here about it I would expect some people to tell me I am controlling or unreasonable and if I was contemplating ending my relationship with children over it, I think those opinions are as valid to be said as those who agree with me about using porn...because I'm making a decision about collapsing my children's family, maybe even though I get the ick about it and it upsets me, arguably it's not worth collapsing my kids family because he's occasionally wanked to porn in private... it definitely would be something I'd need to think about even if in the end I concluded that no it is absolutely a deal breaker and I was leaving.

@Dolores87

Then respectfully you are projecting your own experience onto this situation.

Respectfully, everyone projects to an extent especially when it comes to emotive topics.

People can only share their own personal experience. That doesn't make what they share any less valid than people who had a different experience.

I'm sure OP is perfectly capable of reading all posts and understanding that people are writing from their own individual perspectives based on their own individual experiences.

🤷🏻‍♀️

Except she's actually told you, that he admitted he knew she didn't mean in that way!

And he's now punishing her for her reaction. It's textbook.

OP, can I suggest that you look for support and information on the transwidows threads on here, and transwidows voices.

Tinsel has been a tremendous support to dozens and dozens of women whose partners cross dress, or have AGP. Through personal experience and reaching out to others, she has helped many women avoid the total decimation of their lives.

It's a powerful fetish and can completely take over. Obviously not for everyone, but given the stories from transwidows are all remarkably similar, it's an issue.

One thing is for sure, I would never, in a million years, describe what those women have gone through with their partners as having the 'ick'.

It's not in the same category as he leaves his socks on.

@Hawkins0009

but based on the ops own words the "I am really not into that so if he is, never tell me as I won't be OK with it." ? and as far as im aware her dh, did just that kept it secret, and didnt lie as he didnt tell her ?

In a later post, OP clarifies that her husband himself said he understood she didn't mean that literally.

I've spoken to him yesterday about what I said ("if you're into that, don't tell me") and even he completely understands that I meant that I don't want him to be into it even secretly, as it is a big problem for me.

What a bunch of BS. My boyfriend has a foot fetish and is quite submissive(he gets turned on by being bossed around), I'm sexually dominant and truly enjoy indulging his fetishes. Fetishes are not harmful (as long as they're consensual obvs), they can even help in gluing relationships (my case), of course it all depends on compatibility. Clearly is not the OP's case, cross dressing puts her off, she stated it at the beginning of her marriage and despite her being clear about it she's been finding bags with wigs and suspenders. In her case the fetish is interfering in her marriage, but that's because she's just not into it.

I disagree. Cross dressing and autogynephilia are rooted in misogyny.

There are reams of academic texts, not to mention first hand experience from men who freely admit that they are turned on by the thought of being subjugated and oppressed, but only as women, because that's what women are for.

Fetishising a foot is not the same as fetishising women's oppression.

What does a man getting turned on by wearing women clothes had to do with misogyny? (Seriously the things I read on MN sometimes make my skin crawl).

Are drag queens (such as Ru Paul) “misogynist” too because they love to perform dressed with large wigs, high heels and lipstick?

Cross-dressing doesn't mean he's gay - quite the reverse. MOst secret cross-dressers are heterosexual. It's a sexual fetish called autogynephilia - he is aroused by himself as a woman. You don't have to be OK with this.

If you look for "transwidows" over in the Feminism section, you'll see that it rarely stops; it can escalate until your DH requires that your DC call him "Mum."

I think you need to hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Good lord. It's not the clothes, it's dressing 'as a woman'.

I think you need to separate OP, as there is no compromise here. If you stay together one of you is going to have to bury your feelings and effectively live a lie. Either you, pretending to be ok with something you're not and basically being shamed into having sex that repulses you; or him, denying what is clearly a huge part of who he is. I don't think its fair for either if you to live this way.
There is plenty of support out there for your H. The place is literally awash right now with groups who will hold his hand and affirm him to be his 'authentic self'. Meanwhile you will be free to find a relationship with someone where this isn't part of your life, or if you prefer, live independently and focus on you and your DC, rather than needing to center your husband's needs in everything. Which tends to be the path you're encouraged to go down.

I certainly think drag is misogynistic. It's woman face.

But if they're not getting turned on, it's not a fetish.