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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
Lastchancechica · 10/09/2023 14:31

Why are you giving this stupid attention seeker so much headspace?

Your marriage has blown up, due to your dhs mid life crisis and your life and future is uncertain. I would be busy filing for divorce not debating middle class drug habits. Your dh is not the man you thought he was. You seem to hate the seedy lifestyle. Ditch him. Ditch her and take the high road. Get some counselling, gather wholesome friends around you and choose a life that doesn’t involve parties and drugs.

Lastchancechica · 10/09/2023 14:37

I would bet my last pound as soon as the divorce papers hit the mat, and your dh snaps out of his drug infused revelry, he is going to bitterly regret his actions. No one actually wants to be the washed up waster in the corner, and lose everything of importance.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:47

It was just a bit of sarcasm @Pinkdelight3

Nice one @Lastchancechica exactly what I needed to hear. And probably spot on with your forecast.

OP posts:
Gymmum82 · 10/09/2023 14:51

Sounds like an excuse to me. There’s no reason your DH can’t go out partying without you if he wishes.
Im more of a partyer. Go to festivals, clubs, Ibiza, out til the wee hours. DH couldn’t be less interested. Doesn’t mean I’m going to divorce him. He has his thing I have mine and we do stuff together as well.
Your husband is looking for an excuse for his infidelity when there isn’t one. He’s chosen to end the relationship rather than try and work through your problems. That’s on him and no one else is to blame.
The party woman could try and sell the lifestyle as much as she liked but if he was happy he wouldn’t have done it. That’s not her fault. The blame lays solely with your husband

FarEast · 10/09/2023 14:58

It’s you and your DH who need to sort this out.

You clearly don’t like “party girl” but it’s got very little to do with her.

Your husband is having a very typical and totally unoriginal mid-life crisis where he thinks he can shrug off the responsibility of the the family he willingly co -created.

My father did this when I was 16. It didn’t end well for him. He’s old and alone and dependent on the goodwill of his children whom he attempted to abandon.

So what about you saying “OK the marry is over. You can stay and run the house. I’m off to discover myself”.

And mean it. Go away for a week.

See how he reacts to having to shoulder the family responsibility. And the work. Demonstrate what you do to facilitate his life.

But you sound very boringly set in your ways. You don’t have to drink or take mood-altering drugs to go out and enjoy a party or a festival or two. There’s a middle ground between the behaviour if your so-called friend becoming a DJ (good for her!) and your stay at home and stew attitude.

ChristmasFluff · 10/09/2023 14:59

He's certainly gonna reap what he sows cos honestly, partying in your 50s quickly takes it out of you! I know, because I still do it - I bloody love a festival or a club/rave and all that entails - but I need a week after to recover (pushing 60, mind - but still Gen X).

He would always have strayed though, one way or another. It might have been the darts team, or the quiz night - but you are either a cheater or you aren't. You have morals or you don't.

And do not let him lie about the reasons this has ended - it's not about you attending the partying or not. It's about him thinking he can reclaim his youth via another woman's vag juices. Extra-marital sex always turns men into utter arses like this - they can't even face up to their own culpability.

It sounds from your post that things haven't been great for a while - I suspect divorce is going to suit you much better than it does him. And at least you never have to put up with these 24 hour party people ever again!

CookieDoughKid · 10/09/2023 15:03

No other woman is to blame for leading your dh astray. Your dh is entirely to blame for that. My dh called it quits for me on Tuesday to move in with the OW who's 16 years younger than me and they are buying a house together. An affair which lasted well over a year . 17 years down the pan. Two teens. Me spending 3 past days not wanting to wake up. Yet I don't blame the ow. I want to give her a good slap as no sisterhood there but I've forgiven them both already.

How can I do that? I am secure in myself. I know I've got the goods and I'm not flawed. I know i have amazing qualities, i know people love me and my company. I know im kind, faithful, considerated and good. I can live with integrity abd peace. I am good enough for me. Stop seeking validation which you will never get unless you validate yourself. Sometimes people just want to quit, seek hedonism, feel a new Lease of life or feel that what they have with you isnt right for them anymore. And you know what that is absolutely ok in my book.My dh's lense view on my faults, ruptures, issues in our relationship and whatnot and vice versa.. they were always there in our 17 years, addressed. Worked through .New issues arise, .. like waves of the sea but if the committment and real love was there...you may it work..all of it could have been addressed, confronted. For you and me, the playing field would have never been level due to a 3rd party and due to the fact that our partners wasnt happen with the goods home life offers.

In my circumstances if there wasn't a 3rd party my dh would still be here and we could have had a chance if he turned around to his OW and given me a chance. He just never gave me the option or the knowledge that the playing field was not level. dh is entirely to blame.

It's not YOU. Their actions is all about them.

Be kind on yourself and you too, will move on.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 15:14

FarEast · 10/09/2023 14:58

It’s you and your DH who need to sort this out.

You clearly don’t like “party girl” but it’s got very little to do with her.

Your husband is having a very typical and totally unoriginal mid-life crisis where he thinks he can shrug off the responsibility of the the family he willingly co -created.

My father did this when I was 16. It didn’t end well for him. He’s old and alone and dependent on the goodwill of his children whom he attempted to abandon.

So what about you saying “OK the marry is over. You can stay and run the house. I’m off to discover myself”.

And mean it. Go away for a week.

See how he reacts to having to shoulder the family responsibility. And the work. Demonstrate what you do to facilitate his life.

But you sound very boringly set in your ways. You don’t have to drink or take mood-altering drugs to go out and enjoy a party or a festival or two. There’s a middle ground between the behaviour if your so-called friend becoming a DJ (good for her!) and your stay at home and stew attitude.

I think this is a bit unfair. I’m really not boring.I have a full time job and do all the domestic stuff. I’ve got loads of interests and I’m not just shrivelling up in a corner. And I do like a drink but not binge drinking. Also I exercise loads and am a bit hyper if anything. Loads of natural energy. I have obviously not painted a good picture of myself.

I don’t think many ppl in their 50s take drugs every weekend. When I said to H that I didn’t want to go out, I meant with his friends in that way. They are tedious and yes, they think they are cool when they look stupid. It’s embarrassing. There is only so much socialising you can do before it just becomes an extra stress and this group was taking up all our time. I said to him, ‘when did you last instigate dinner out with me?’ Never. And you know what? Good coz he had nothing to say. Empty vessels. They all are.

so yes upward and onward I can build a new life. I just wanted to get the order of events clear and look at the bigger picture as already he’s starting to reorder things so it looks as if the hob-nobbing was a natural course of events. Party girl needed some investigation in my mind as I will need to face her soon. I’ve done that now and so I’m off to talk to a solicitor.

OP posts:
fiddlesticksandotherwords · 10/09/2023 16:37

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 13:24

Of course it's another woman's fault for living her life and not the mans for choosing to live that same life and cheat.

The point I was making, (and I thought it was blindingly obvious, but perhaps not) was that he has been encouraged by this woman to try a different lifestyle. Of course it is his fault for cheating, but if she hadn't persuaded him to go to this event, then he wouldn't have ever got into that position, would he?

Look at it this way. Your ds gets in with a 'wrong' crowd who misbehave in an antisocial manner. One of them tells your ds that they often go shoplifting, it is easy, and nobody ever gets caught. So your ds has a go and ends up at the police station. Who would you blame? Yes you would be livid with your ds for stealing obviously, but who encouraged him to do it when he'd never even thought about breaking the law before? Are they not also culpable?

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 16:41

fiddlesticksandotherwords · 10/09/2023 16:37

The point I was making, (and I thought it was blindingly obvious, but perhaps not) was that he has been encouraged by this woman to try a different lifestyle. Of course it is his fault for cheating, but if she hadn't persuaded him to go to this event, then he wouldn't have ever got into that position, would he?

Look at it this way. Your ds gets in with a 'wrong' crowd who misbehave in an antisocial manner. One of them tells your ds that they often go shoplifting, it is easy, and nobody ever gets caught. So your ds has a go and ends up at the police station. Who would you blame? Yes you would be livid with your ds for stealing obviously, but who encouraged him to do it when he'd never even thought about breaking the law before? Are they not also culpable?

Yes in the eyes of the law all the kids would be charged!!!

OP posts:
Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 16:44

I really do object to the idea that she is beyond reproach because she is a woman and that even questioning her behaviour is somehow witch burning and sexist. What if party girl was party boy? Would that make the behaviour questionable?

OP posts:
Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 16:53

What if party girl was party boy? Would that make the behaviour questionable?

It wouldn't make it any more relevant. It might make it more obvious that your DH wasn't under some woman's spell and was doing the same as his mates, behaving that way because he chose to do so. It wouldn't make the other party boy responsible, but whether it was questionable behaviour is still subjective. To some he'd be an idiot/saddo/waster, to others he'd be the life and soul.

Fofum · 10/09/2023 16:54

No... It makes her, his or their behaviour entirely their business. People can live how they like

CornishGem1975 · 10/09/2023 16:57

Your marriage breakdown is nobody else's fault. A marriage can only be broken by the two people in it.

Optionyougot · 10/09/2023 16:58

But fiddlesticksandotherwords this woman has not encouraged the husband to try a different lifestyle at all. The OPs describes a guy who loved to party when younger, has a social group with similar people and had this curtailed when he had kids. Now his kids are older and he's reverted to type.

What if party girl was party boy? Would that make the behaviour questionable?
I'm not going to condone taking drugs, but no, the sex of the person makes no difference to how questionable their behaviour is. Your focus/judging would be no more or less acceptable.

billy1966 · 10/09/2023 16:59

Your husband is some tit and I think you will be happier than you realise, quicker than you think.

I hope your children will be ok.
I wouldn't ever forgive his hurting them.

This is on him.
Cheating while on drugs🙄what a tit.

She sounds absolutely painful, a real dose.
That she never gave you a heads up confirms she isn't your friend and THAT would be why I would put distance between you.

I would have distanced myself years ago knowing how neglected their children are.

I couldn't be around people who would neglect their children.

She certainly didn't do you any favours as a friend, but ultimately it is your husband who is the selfish loser here.

Focus on the children, they could be far more upset than you realise.

What a tit to so easily abandon his children.

Maddy70 · 10/09/2023 17:11

This has nothing to do with party girl.

My husband and I are very different. He's an introvert and I'm an extrovert. I love going out he loves staying in

I got really fed up of him not wanting to join me and it almost caused us to split

Now we compromise. He does come out and I will stay in and watch a film.

I can understand your husband wanting more. There is a long time ahead for pipe and slippers why waste now when you have your health and the energy

chemicalworld · 10/09/2023 17:20

I understand. Its hard when you want to behave like an adult and there are health concerns to think about as we get older. I have friends like this and the party hasn't stopped for them, I don't want to live like that any longer and I have found I've had to cut these people out. I'm sorry your husband doesn't feel the same way but really it is down to him to grow up. He is choosing this life, but I doubt it'll end well. As well as body health this stuff messes with mental health too.

Notonthestairs · 10/09/2023 17:41

"I can understand your husband wanting more. There is a long time ahead for pipe and slippers why waste now when you have your health and the energy"

Not sure I'd be joining my husband popping pills at the weekend in order to stay married. It seems like a quick way to diminish both health & energy.

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 18:06

OP to me you sound super reasonable and thoughtful about the situation. people are inevitably influenced by those around them, peer pressure is a thing and not just for teenagers.
I think party girl sounds absolutely fucking awful and you must be a saint for tolerating her at all. I would inwardly hate her and just stay cool and calm on the outside. You can sack her off and never see her again now.
Your comment that they are ‘empty vessels” i think says it all. If they’re only “interesting” when they’re drunk/high what’s the point of them as people? This competitive urge to be seen having a good time is really tiresome. There are loads of other fun and interesting things to do, its not just a choice between drink&drugs or pipe&slippers!

frozendaisy · 10/09/2023 18:23

Trolley-dolly dancefloors are for the young.
When I was on a dancefloor in my yester-youth if I saw an old man, which at 50 on an ecstasy dancefloor counts as old, I would have told him to fuck off somewhere else.

The young get very few places to just be. This is one place that is theirs.

I digress, we went to a festival this summer, we are almost the same age, H has a couple of long standing friends who are still on "the party vibe" I explained quite clearly in no uncertain terms that "if you end up some fucking drugged up mess in front of the kids I will not be making any excuses for your pathetic behaviour", yes we had a drink and a bit of a smoke and still had a lovely weekend.

Does your H's love for his kids not override his desire to be a sad old man at parties?

There are many ways to socialise, enjoying food and conversation, activities and culture. They are just as "mind opening" as banging techno in a field.

Your party female friend is just living a life, she is not to blame for your H's actions, but you know that. You might need her"come out and dance" invitations in the future, not now but I wouldn't cut her off. When she comes around to visit I might be tempted to explain how much damage to your children H's choice of dancefloor over them is and will cause, that you are confused how someone who has children can't see the fun and love in being around as they turn into adults, that as edge towards older age that the youth's ideas are what will shape society going forward, they (all things assuming normal) will have to live on this planet much longer.

Does you H not question the drug trade, the politics of what this actually supports? The damage done to many youngsters in the supply of happy little disco biscuits?

No one is saying anyone has to become a nun, but the older person chasing their misspent youth is, well a little bit sad.

I think it's possible you can put across your points with falling out with anyone. Keep your children as the front and centre of your actions and conversations. Don't fall out with anyone just now, wait see how this pans out.

Take a step back. Breathe.
Male sure H at least fulfills his parental obligations, both physically and financially.

One step at a time OP.

What a mess.

CookieDoughKid · 10/09/2023 18:56

Not being funny but time to invest in friendships that make you feel good too.

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 19:14

*Trolley-dolly dancefloors are for the young.
When I was on a dancefloor in my yester-youth if I saw an old man, which at 50 on an ecstasy dancefloor counts as old, I would have told him to fuck off somewhere else.

The young get very few places to just be. This is one place that is theirs.*

Times have changed. Young people tend to be less into clubbing than the generation that OP is talking about. There's clubs full of over-40s/50s and even older while the young are in their rooms convening online. No one's taking their dancefloors away from them, there's room for all and more open minded inclusivity than in your yester-youth.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 20:12

‘There are many ways to socialise, enjoying food and conversation, activities and culture. They are just as "mind opening" as banging techno in a field.’

this I relate to. More so in my opinion. H has told me that I’m too ‘cultured’ . I have a penchant for children’s illustrations, conspiracy theories on YouTube and the odd news articles. I like a bit of current affairs and pop culture and documentaries. Can you believe that? He makes out I’m nerdy. he wants someone to watch entertainment with him and….football. So much bloody football. It’s ok for him to watch it all the time but a bit of Lucy Worsley makes me too intellectual apparently.

thanks again for replies. Recent ones are a bit more on my wavelength I think in that they acknowledge we all play a part in our own little way. And that there is a balance to be had in enjoying life whilst still being conscientious. I just don’t think it’s right to say ‘she can do what she wants and it’s none of your business’. it doesn’t work like that I don’t think. That’s too simple.

OP posts:
Howldens · 10/09/2023 20:12

Still in agreement with the OP totally get what you mean re “anti family”.

The lifestyle she is pushing, by its very nature, excludes those who don’t or can’t participate. So, for example, it excludes partners who need to be responsible for children. If that’s one half of a couple, as in this case, it’s excluding. And it’s kinda anti family.

while I don’t think it’s this twatty woman’s fault, I do think that she could recognise that the lifestyle she’s pushing isn’t conducive to supporting those she supposedly cares about in their now primary roles as family people. Especially if she pushes it with the additional emotional layer of “oh you’re so boring” if you don’t participate, which I BET she does.

Obv the ultimate responsibility remains the husbands, and OPs only course of action is to focus on building her life moving forward.

but this woman sounds like a proper pain.