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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
JudgeRudy · 10/09/2023 11:27

You see your relationship from a very different angle. Whilst you feel you're working through things and trying hard for the sake of your valueable marriage, to others (this might hurt) it might seem futile. How often have couples split up and others say it's been on the cards for years? I doubt very much party girl is deliberately trying to sabortage your marriage, but she might also feel that it's not on her to compromise her lifestyle to protect something she's not even sure is worth saving.

Motnight · 10/09/2023 11:27

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:37

I guess what I’m saying is that this thread is about her behaviour and not Hs. If his behaviour is symptomatic of a bad marriage then it can also be symptomatic of a bad friendship.

i am just trying to define the whole picture as no man is an island after all.

This is the problem Op. You are making the breakdown of your marriage all about this woman. It's about you and your husband. You haven't gone into detail about your marriage problems (nor do you have to), but you have written lots about this woman, her family set up and her behaviour.

You need to concentrate on your life, your family and how to move forward.

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 11:30

I should have had the courage to stand up to this all years ago even if it meant parting from H.

This is very telling I think, and perhaps your DH is right in his fucked-up way. If challenging this status quo would've ended your marriage, it was never strong and there was always this fault line waiting to open wide, it's just got worse as you've got older and the differences between you can't be covered any longer. You want very different things, you have for a long time. And as PP have said, this is what your DH wants - and what the party woman's DH wants - it's your own views (and perhaps some self-serving flannel from them) that are making you see it all as her will imposed on them and them reluctantly going along with it. Her DH is leaving his DC home and 'slowly killing himself' because, on balance, he wants to, not because he's got no will of his own. Your DH has been in with these friends from the off and for years you've felt like if you challenged it, he'd have chosen them over you. The death knell was there. You've made it work by sublimating your own wants, but the reality is clear now. You are better off apart and will be happier going your own ways.

Throwncrumbs · 10/09/2023 11:31

Gjendefloooo · 10/09/2023 10:24

You need to forget party girl.
She has nothing to do with your husband leaving you.
If it hadn't been party girl inviting people to go to festivals and parties, DH would still have found random people to party with.
Party girl did not force him to take drugs and shag some other woman.

Basically over the years, you have changed and she hasn't. And that's fine. There's no rule that says a 50 year old can't wear hot pants and dance the night away. DH still wants that kind of lifestyle. You've grown apart.
He's a dick though for cheating. It's him you should be focussing on and not her. Also the OW is not innocent either, obviously, yet you barely mention her and just blame party girl.

Unless it’s ‘party girl’ he’s been shagging!

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 11:34

Throwncrumbs · 10/09/2023 11:31

Unless it’s ‘party girl’ he’s been shagging!

It's not though. Why reach for other reasons to blame her?

hev126 · 10/09/2023 11:36

also, when the cat is out of the bag, I need to do the official line to our network. I want this to be right and leave me with head held high and them looking like the selfish (definitely not cool) tossers they are - as a bit of a reality check.

Surely the fact that he's a cheating prick and as a result you're leaving him is enough?

jeaux90 · 10/09/2023 11:46

If you want to exit with your head held high just say he cheated and your standards are higher than that. Say you'll be focussing on the DC and positive co-parenting.

Then change the subject.

Opentooffers · 10/09/2023 11:50

Life is balance and it doesn't sound like you've quite got that. I'm hearing blame for H and blame for 'party girl' and blame on going out causing you to have a 3 day hangover.
There is a middle ground where you go out and enjoy yourself, but know your drink limit so a 3 day hangover doesn't happen. That's on you, you got the limit wrong and overdid it so were ill. You've chucked the baby out with the bathwater by saying you were not going to go out at all. That makes for a dull life, while it's normal to concentrate on DC as they grow up, when they get to independence, it is normal for parents to go out more and enjoy the freedom it gives. That you want to stay in, is your choice, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
I'm older than you, I still go to music festivals - and when my DS was younger, as a single parent,I took him with me.
A lot of people in their 50's and 60's and beyond go to festivals.
I'm sensing your disappoval of other people's life choices, when really, and ultimately, it sounds like you have grown apart and want different things from the people around you. Are you not the one who has changed and become more sedentary?
I'm not approving of the drugs your H chose to take, or that he's been unfaithful, but if you want to stay in despite your DC not needing you to, that's your responsibility in this. Not going out ever because you gave yourself hangovers, is your responsibility so accept you are not blameless, or better still, quit blame all round, you just want different things out of life.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 10/09/2023 11:52

50s are Gen X not Boomers. I'm 52. Be interested to know why you hate me

Aageism and vitriol directed at evil boomers (or anyone over 50) is the one societal prejudice that's acceptable and condoned here. Simply being born when you were makes you a target for it.

Goldbar · 10/09/2023 12:04

Opentooffers · 10/09/2023 11:50

Life is balance and it doesn't sound like you've quite got that. I'm hearing blame for H and blame for 'party girl' and blame on going out causing you to have a 3 day hangover.
There is a middle ground where you go out and enjoy yourself, but know your drink limit so a 3 day hangover doesn't happen. That's on you, you got the limit wrong and overdid it so were ill. You've chucked the baby out with the bathwater by saying you were not going to go out at all. That makes for a dull life, while it's normal to concentrate on DC as they grow up, when they get to independence, it is normal for parents to go out more and enjoy the freedom it gives. That you want to stay in, is your choice, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
I'm older than you, I still go to music festivals - and when my DS was younger, as a single parent,I took him with me.
A lot of people in their 50's and 60's and beyond go to festivals.
I'm sensing your disappoval of other people's life choices, when really, and ultimately, it sounds like you have grown apart and want different things from the people around you. Are you not the one who has changed and become more sedentary?
I'm not approving of the drugs your H chose to take, or that he's been unfaithful, but if you want to stay in despite your DC not needing you to, that's your responsibility in this. Not going out ever because you gave yourself hangovers, is your responsibility so accept you are not blameless, or better still, quit blame all round, you just want different things out of life.

I agree with this.

I also want to tell her that I think her priorities are all wrong and that her lifestyle choices suck. Is that fair?

No, you have no right to judge how she chooses to live her life. You see it as mindless hedonism, she sees it as having fun and enjoying life. Neither view is wrong. If she was being horrible, she could say the same right back to you - your priorities are all wrong, you're too focused on all the boring stuff and that's what has caused the breakdown in your marriage.

Both views are unfair. What has really happened is that your husband has been a complete arsehole and cheated on you. If he felt you were growing apart, he should have discussed this with you openly and honestly, including whether your relationship had a future. But instead his own selfish actions blew it out of the water.

50lessfat · 10/09/2023 12:12

In all the time you’ve known party girl she has never changed her ways she is living her life the way she wants to.

Your husband is a grown adult with his own children he makes his own decisions.

Uterusbegone · 10/09/2023 12:14

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

I'm sorry that your husband is being a massive bellend but this isn't your friends fault. She is living her life just as you are living yours, the difference is she sees going out and having a good time as important and you don't.

I don't necessarily agree that settling into a boring life is necessarily considered 'doing the right thing' as in my view the adults in a family have just as much right to have a joyful and happy life as the kids, so found that tone of your post a bit odd if I'm honest.

But this isn't your friends fault, the only person breaking up your marriage is your husband

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/09/2023 12:23

Gently too as your jn pain

this has got nothing to do with party girl
who sounds like a pain
but this is all him

it’s your husband having his head turned and being a selfish middle aged twat

the best thing you can do is take him at his word

totally ice him out and scare the fxxk out of him by starting to instigate divorce proceeding

no tears no drama (in front of him at least )

I can guarantee he won’t won’t want this

but Maybe you can’t forgive this either ?

this is also a chance to break free from this group

Crazycrazylady · 10/09/2023 12:27

Honestly I have to say I find your post generally really odd. It's in the main about this woman who isn't behaving as you feel she should at her stage in life. It was full of sneery judgement of her behaviour ( which appears to consist of going to festivals and making her husband come with her)
Your post is all about her not the fact your long marriage is ending because your husband cheated and you seem concerned in the main about how her you disagree with her priorities.
Honestly op, jn the nicest possible way you seem a little obsessed with this woman who has done absolutely nothing to you. Focus on your own relationship if you wish to try and salvage it and don't worry about her. Ye simply want different things and that's ok. There are plenty of people who like to live large at her age and also plenty who settle down a bit. Neither is a wrong priority .

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/09/2023 12:31

I’m your age too (boomer my arse !!) and I know this white middle class hedonistic type very well

and no offence I hate it and veered away from this a while back
I’ve cut many friendships and made some new ones

but him cheating is totally seperate !!

and many teetotal vegans cheat too
many ‘boring’ stay at home men also cheat

but sounds like you really need to rebuild and distance from this group

I’ve been single 3 years and have a new groove
it takes time and is totally possible

NotMyDayJob · 10/09/2023 12:33

I'm really sorry this has happened, but of course it's not her fault, assuming she's not the.woman he slept with.

I know you want to blame someone but it's no other persons fault. Your DH has behaved poorly, that's for sure but he's a grown man who can make his own decisions. He will probably come to regret this but it's not anyone else's fault.

And also what difference would it make of it was. It wouldn't change anything.

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 12:36

Sorry that there are some judgemental posters who have very little empathy for a person going through a massive life crisis. I really hope some of the more balanced and empathetic posts have helped you op and wish you lots of luck in creating a wonderful new life for yourself and your dc.

alexisccd · 10/09/2023 12:38

Please don't say anything to party girl - it is not your place to judge other women and def not to inform them of that. She will not give a shit what you think and rightly so. You will end up looking like a nasty person.

You are trying to insinuate she is culpable as she created anti family feelings and vibes. Your husband has not walked away from his family (kids) he has walked away from his marriage to you - and I know that must hurt, but he is not the man you hoped he was if he did the dirty on you after taking some party pills.

This must be so incredibly painful but keep your dignity, stay away from retribution and discussion other than with your most loyal friends and your solicitor, Hold your head high and try to get the best financial settlement you can in the divorce.

Your ex can still be a good father and I hope you will try to foster that, this shouldn't be dressed up as him being anti family. I wanted to mention that as it feels that your narrative is leaning to "he's done this awful thing to his family". The emotional outcomes for your kids will be better if you focus on "the marriage broke up and that is nothing to do with you kids".

DidIMissOut · 10/09/2023 12:45

What is this ’anti family’ stuff, you keep going on and in about?
Makes you sound unhinged.
That’s not a thing.
Your hubby cheated, it’s a classic cliche, not a movement againts your precious family.

Jammylou · 10/09/2023 12:56

I agree with others replies. Party girl is not responsible even a little bit.
He is an adult and makes his own decisions.
Personally I'd hate to be a part of a friendship group like that.
I'm a similar age and partied hard in my 20s like you family life took over.
Your husbands behaviour has not been good and its if he wants to continue with it I wouldn't want to be a part of that.
Do you have shared interests and goals as if not this could just be symptomatic of what else is going on in your relationship.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 13:07

Ok I’m back, as feel need to clear some stuff up.

problem is NOT party girl and lifestyle. She can do what the fuck she likes. It’s the fact she hasn’t let up trying to recruit us all and force on us a lifestyle that the vast majority of us moved away from ages ago.

constant WhatsApp messages across all friendship groups
begging to join her around hers for pills and party action
asking for favours to support her DJing hobby
doing her doe eyes and cuddling up to you going ‘oh go on pweeese…’
hijacking dinner parties by whipping out decks
not tolerating ANY OTHER music choice than her shitty dance music
sending ‘we’re having such a great time’ pics of the stuff she’s doing on socials and private messaging groups showing her with all her trendy boogie pals living their best lives like they are at burning man - almost every weekend.

its not the lifestyle it’s the sales job/campaign she was embarking upon. She is caught up in an Instagram world but tried to make it real life. Sorry, but it’s been a nightmare.

when someone is on a one woman campaign to get the world up and dance - on HER TERMS ONLY - and taking no notice of what’s going on in others lives or how they feel, it is my business. I asked her nicely to stop she didn’t listen. I don’t think I’m the one who is not ‘letting live’. She didn’t leave us be. Happy for her to do what she wants but not when it encroaches on my life.

OP posts:
ThePoshUns · 10/09/2023 13:07

I'm
Sorry you're going through this, but you need to stop blaming your friend.
You need to focus on you and your husband's behaviour within your relationship.
Your social circle sounds exhausting and I don't blame you for pulling back but your friends are not to blame here.

Shoxfordian · 10/09/2023 13:10

Yeah how dare she have a good time and try to include you all - the problem is your husband and not your friend 🙄

INeedAnotherName · 10/09/2023 13:19

I need to know if it is fair that right now I tell her she’s been a shit friend.
It’s the fact she hasn’t let up trying to recruit us all and force on us a lifestyle that the vast majority of us moved away from ages ago.

She was never your friend though. Friends don't try and emotionally blackmail you into their lifestyle. You are mistaking knowing someone for a long time is the same as friendship. You also knew she wasn't a nice person based on how she treated her husband.

I'm sorry you didn't see all the red flags waving but they were there right from the beginning.

jeaux90 · 10/09/2023 13:19

She sounds like someone I'd feel sorry for.

People that overstep boundaries constantly do it because we let them though. You chose not to let her your DH did.

Honestly, focus on creating distance, make sure you land the right messaging about why you and DH are splitting and work on how to co-parent with him.

I think you have an opportunity here to create a life for yourself without all this periphery crap.