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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
OhNoForever · 10/09/2023 08:55

Oh love, you're being so unreasonable but it isn't surprising when you're blindsided like this.

You need to find your anger at your husband for being dick led, and your acceptance that maybe you have just grown apart as you age.

Ragwort · 10/09/2023 08:56

Just don't hang out with these people, find new friends, spend time with your own DC & wider family, or just enjoy your own company. Find different social activities, it all sounds a bit intense to have the same 'gang' that you went out with 20 years ago. I can't even remember the majority of my friends from that time, friendships evolve and change over the years.
You don't need to hang out as a big 'pack'.

CornishGem1975 · 10/09/2023 08:59

Flipping heck. You need to grow up a bit.

Goldmember · 10/09/2023 09:00

Sounds like you want different things from life and that's OK. He needs to find a party partner in crime and you need a homebody. The other woman wants to do her thing, leave her to it.

WimpoleHat · 10/09/2023 09:00

i guess I’m worried about how to respond when she comes over to give big hugs. After everything I think I can just tell her how annoying she is can’t I? I also want to tell her that I think her priorities are all wrong and that her lifestyle choices suck. Is that fair?

Honestly - I’d just ignore her as far as possible. By the sound of it, she wasn’t “your” friend and so is no great loss to you. Just avoid. Be polite but not overly friendly. She’ll get the message.

LittleMonks11 · 10/09/2023 09:01

Don't have her round then. And who is the mid other woman in the gang who he slept with? Is she married to another in the gang?

pippinsleftleg · 10/09/2023 09:01

Reading between the lines of your OP it sounds like you have problems in your marriage anyway.

I think you and the children will be better off without your ‘super fun’ partying DH - that is not the kind of parent children need.

And while the woman sounds like a bit of a dick, but this is all on your H.

Don’t let her hug you though.

HowIsItSeptemberAlready · 10/09/2023 09:05

I've read your OP twice now.

The first three/four paragraphs are all about here. Very little about the state of your marriage/husband. How would his narrative of events differ, do you think?

It's telling he's refusing marriage counselling. For him, it's really 100% over, from what you say.

Is that seriously just the result of a weekend shag at a festival? How did you find out?

I'm afraid I'd be betting there's a lot more to this, unfortunately.

IME men never leave marriages just for being unhappy and them go and live on their own for a bit. Men wait until they have another option lined up, and then press the button. Sorry.

MentholLoad · 10/09/2023 09:05

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:47

No, I’ll not blaming her. I’m suggesting she is a little bit culpable. But I knew when I posted this that I was being ridiculous as you are all of course right.

there is still a teeny bit of me that thinks friends have a responsibility to take care of each other though. I didn’t choose her friendship, I married into it. And there she’s been forcing her will on ppl uninvited. I should have told her ardently to leave me and my family alone. But, i acknowledge she’s isn’t responsible.

i guess I’m worried about how to respond when she comes over to give big hugs. After everything I think I can just tell her how annoying she is can’t I? I also want to tell her that I think her priorities are all wrong and that her lifestyle choices suck. Is that fair?

@tescocreditcard loved your message made me laugh out loud. Once i’ve sorted out my head and analysed the situ a bit more, that will be my likely attitude.

nah, don't let her come round to comfort you. you said that you married into the friendship. you don't have to keep being her friend now your husband is leaving. Sack her off, she sounds very tedious

Chunkyandchico · 10/09/2023 09:06

I understand your position. My friendship group went through something similar a couple of years ago, although my stbxh was the equivalent of the "party girl".

It's not directly her fault but I do think she's toxic and you should drop her. She sounds like a narcissistic character, needing constant attention and admiration etc.

What you do now is to work on yourself. You will go through a grieving process, and it will be hard and painful, but I can't tell you the liberation you will feel when you can be yourself.

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 09:07

I'm very sorry your marriage is ending.

But clearly you and dh are different people and over the years that's worked for you and not for him.

The party girl is in no way to blame. I'm surprised you've even considered this.

You're obviously a very studious serious overthinking type.

Your dh wants to party.

You don't want to party more to keep him happy and he isn't prepared to have a life life any longer to keep you happy.

Just make sure the divorce is fair.

olympicsrock · 10/09/2023 09:08

This sounds like YOU have changed ( which is common) and DH has not grown up/ slowed down with you.

I do think friends should not encourage others to take drugs / do dodgy stuff and should not encourage rifts in marriages.

But frankly this is about you and DH and no one else

Wheresthebloomingsummersunshine · 10/09/2023 09:09

The group sound tedious, adolescent and you've outgrown them. She's not responsible for your DHs poor choices. You're annoyed by her because she represents your xH midlife crisis vision of what his life should be like. He'll soon find out the grass isn't greener when it hits his finances and he has to juggle and be knackered by work, 50:50 kids, and his partying.

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 09:10

i guess I’m worried about how to respond when she comes over to give big hugs. After everything I think I can just tell her how annoying she is can’t I? I also want to tell her that I think her priorities are all wrong and that her lifestyle choices suck. Is that fair?

No it's not fair.

I can't believe you actually have the audacity to even consider it as a possibility.

You're blaming her indirectly for your DHs life choices but you're judging hers. 50% of your OP was about her and her choices etc.

If she comes over to comfort you just say you're busy. You don't need this woman's lifestyle to make a drama for you.

TheaBrandt · 10/09/2023 09:10

I was going to concur it’s all on him etc which it is and he has been weak. But in the wedding service they sometimes talk about people who are a “friend to a marriage” and supportive so I think external factors can apply. But surely external factors can only sink the marriage if the cracks are there in the first place.

Sorry you are going through it though sounds tough. But also you are well rid!

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:10

Yes! The alternative opinion! I posted because I do think there is something in it worth investigating and I want to avoid being nicey nicey about it with her when she is clearly orchestrating such situations in like a cause and affect type scenario.

i think the blame of course lies at Hs feet, no dispute. But we do not act alone. Taking me out of the equation there are kids at the centre of this… hers and ours.

her kids are left alone all night at age 11 and 14 whilst mummy indulges herself and slowly kills her DH whilst she’s at it. now my teenage son doesn’t have his dad and our family home is going. Actively pushing an anti-family lifestyle has contributed to this and it was uninvited. H obvs has massive FOMO which he wouldn’t have if party girl was not dangling under his nose.

I know we must not give in to temptation but surely there is a case for not creating the temptation in the first place, in the name of friendship.

so, nothing happens in isolation and whilst I don’t blame her directly I can be a bit angry with her about her behaviour over the years and what the consequences of that behaviour has ignited. Maybe she deserves a bit of a ticking off?

also, when the cat is out of the bag, I need to do the official line to our network. I want this to be right and leave me with head held high and them looking like the selfish (definitely not cool) tossers they are - as a bit of a reality check.

OP posts:
LlamasUnited · 10/09/2023 09:11

Everyone in this sounds like a twat. Apart from you OP, who sounds like you’ve been taken hostage. Your husband is putting me in mind of an elderly Nathan Barley. I expect your children are embarrassed of him. I would also be cheerfully waving him off.

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 09:13

i totally get that it will be incredibly difficult to take sympathy from this woman in the circumstances and if you always thought she was annoying anyway then it’s not surprising you want to have a go at her for catharsis. But, that rarely helps you feel better and potentially creates a massive load of drama that you really, really don’t need right now. Instead only see friends/family that you trust and that treat you with respect, ideally who don’t know the party girl. Tell her you need some space and will reach out to her when you’re ready (ie never). Focus on yourself and dc.

lljkk · 10/09/2023 09:13

When my parents' marriage broke down, my mother went around blaming everyone for it. It was my fault because I didn't talk him out of it. It was my brothers' fault because they were drug addicts which was awful for my parents to deal with. It was my dad's siblings' fault because they didn't condemn him and shame him into staying married. Ditto for their mutual friends. There was an OW to blame, too, but just blaming her wasn't enough for my mom.

If you dont' want to see the party girl just tell her you need space and not too many people in your life. It won't help you to openly fall out with her, too.

SpareHeirOverThere · 10/09/2023 09:14

I'm sorry your stbxh has been such an arse. You will, as PP said, be happily rid of him, but I know it's painful now.

No, it's not party girl's fault, not even a little bit. She's not 'a little bit culpable'. Friends should look out for you - she's not your friend, even if she thinks she is. Even if you thought she was.

It is so tempting to look for blame elsewhere, but this is all your dh. This is who he is now: weak-willed, lacking in the commitment to family that you put a high value on, deceitful. People do change, just often not for the better.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 10/09/2023 09:14

Sorry you're going through this OP. This is all on your husband. He's the one choosing to throw his family away in favour of a party lifestyle.

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 09:14

I know we must not give in to temptation but surely there is a case for not creating the temptation in the first place, in the name of friendship.

No.

There's no argument for other people living their lives differently to how you choose to in case others decide to love that life.

I have plenty of close friends who do things I'd never do in a million years and who wouldn't make the choices I do either.

We manage to remain friends and more importantly - manage to remain independent people with independent thought processes and independently make decisions for ourselves.

ZonedIn · 10/09/2023 09:15

I get the need to have an official line that allows you to hold your head high.

Perhaps ‘It’s H’s decision, you’d need to ask him’ if you want to keep the friendship group. Or if you decide they are toxic, something more like ‘H wants to party like he’s 20, I’ve been there and done that, and it’s not what I want any more’?

IrritableVowel · 10/09/2023 09:18

Your DH is at fault for cheating, you know that.

The friend sounds annoying and I get what you mean- if she wasn't around, banging on about the fab exhausting party life she leads, your DH might not have been as exposed to it. Maybe she turned his head.

But you are giving her too much head space and power in your relationship and life, nobody made your DH do anything.

Likewise, she can't make you do anything. You say she isn't your friend, so just don't have anything to do with her.

If you see her out and about, polite brief interaction for a few mins and move on.

If she is sorry to hear about your break up, why are you assuming that it isn't genuine? If you think she isn't genuine, she definitely isn't a pal, so why all the wrangling about what to say to her?

She's not the person who should be getting a piece of your mind, that's your husband

Darhon · 10/09/2023 09:18

I had a friendship group a bit like this. It started to unravel a bit in the mid-40s point. My saying was ‘the party’s over’. This party is over for you at least. It will hit the others soon. Most people get impacted badly be this lifestyle in their 50s. I’m confused that you say you were the most stable but also fragile? To be honest in really stable units, I think the couple keep
pace with each other. They mutually agree the sort of lifestyle they want to lead. It’s unusual to find stable couples who are wildly different in terms of amount and type of socialising. If they are it’s normally a bone a contention.

I wish you well. I hope you a financially ok. I’ve had to start over in my 40s, with 3 kids.

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