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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 13:21

Some of the comments are comedy:’ an aging party dad is as sad af’. ‘She sounds like hell on wheels’ 😂

its out of my system now which is good. I just needed to vent. I was preoccupied with her as she’s been grating on me for years, then suddenly marriage is over as soon as H is in her company for a weekend. Funny that.

I appreciate the alternative views though that there is some cause to feel pissed off. There is. You can’t just be a busy body and think it doesn’t effect people. In a way she was interfering in people’s lives.

I feel now that finally I have evidence that it is all toxic so I can move on. Relief.

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 13:24

fiddlesticksandotherwords · 10/09/2023 11:15

To be totally honest, I think if a family friend kept on and on at us about her 'PartyOnDude' lifestyle, persuaded my DH to join in, and while away at a festival he decided to shag some other woman and decide that married life with me was no longer what he wanted, then yes, I'd be rather pissed off with her too.

Of course it's another woman's fault for living her life and not the mans for choosing to live that same life and cheat.

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 13:26

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 13:21

Some of the comments are comedy:’ an aging party dad is as sad af’. ‘She sounds like hell on wheels’ 😂

its out of my system now which is good. I just needed to vent. I was preoccupied with her as she’s been grating on me for years, then suddenly marriage is over as soon as H is in her company for a weekend. Funny that.

I appreciate the alternative views though that there is some cause to feel pissed off. There is. You can’t just be a busy body and think it doesn’t effect people. In a way she was interfering in people’s lives.

I feel now that finally I have evidence that it is all toxic so I can move on. Relief.

Yes move on. Find friends who share your values and you feel value you.

It's tough and you'll go through all sorts of feelings but see this as a fresh start in non married life and friendships.

MMmomDD · 10/09/2023 13:37

OP - i think your H’s midlife crisis is all his own.

And i think over the years - while you were happily drifting away from your younger party lifestyle and embracing more ‘grown and responsible’ life - your H wasn’t as happy to do it as you were.

So - now with kids not as dependent on you - plus facing mortality and getting old - he is doing what many men have done at this age.
And - i think it’d have happened regardless of the latest festival outing.

As to the choices and life that friend leads - you are way too judgemental and completely unreasonable.
Her life. Nothing to do with you.

You are a grown up and don't have to follow her.
Majority in your social group don’t. And they receive the same messages from
her. Their marriages haven’t been threatened by her ‘propaganda and lifestyle’.

You don’t need to stay friends with her or the others.

The only thing i’d say to her would be about being there and seeing your H go off with that woman.
As a long term ‘friend’ - i’d have said something to him there and then. And certainly said smth to you upon returning.

As to needing to drink to socialise and party…. Its not a must. I dont drink, never had and never stopped me from partying.
Life doesnt have to be dull just because you dont drink and have turned 50.
Its Ok to also occasionally let lose.

Optionyougot · 10/09/2023 13:40

For me, she's entirely separate to this. So no, not culpable for the break up of your marriage in anyway. You married a "party head". As your lifestyle changed your priorities did, and it seems like your arsehole STBXH either didn't, or he flexed to the changing circumstance and now wants to return to his previous ways. Being an adult, it's entirely on him. There's no amount of "temptation" that justifies his behaviour imo.

Separately, she does sound grating and you're clearly not enjoying the relationship with her so this is a brilliant time to reset and cultivate the relationships that are important to you.

Your responses to the posters on this thread are really refreshing btw, like you really have been open to different views.

Sorry your husband has been a shit, I really hope you can spend the future focusing on you, what you want and what's best for you and your kids and find happiness in whatever that future looks like.

Fizzadora · 10/09/2023 13:46

Haven't read the full thread OP just the first few pages and your responses and agree that it's not hard to feel aggrieved at party girl because you are right it probably wouldn't have happened if she hadn't been around, although I am inclined to think if not encouraged to the party by her then it would have been something else.
Don't know if anyone's mentioned it but you might be doing party girl's DH and kids a favour by calling it out and divorcing yours as he might reflect that actually he doesn't have to play along with her game.
I don't think she's wrong in what she's doing per se, although I would have cut her off many many years ago, but I always feel a bit sad for the kids in this type of scenario. They will probably be on here in 10 years time trying to understand why they can't function in life.

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 13:47

She does sound grating for you and for me, but bottom line is the others liked it. They went all forced or recruited to do anything. They wanted to do it. She wouldn't have got anywhere with her entreaties otherwise. And if you were all opposed and wanting to go to the Hay Literary Festival instead, that's what the Whatsapp groups would have been about. But it wasn't. It was a bunch of people who party together and she was the life and soul. That's not for you and it did your head in. Understandably. But that's not an objective value judgement and the actions of the rest of the group shows they felt otherwise.

The good news is now you're free of her, and much more importantly, of him.

determinedtomakethiswork · 10/09/2023 13:48

I agree with you. I wouldn't let her come round sympathising. I would say to her "don't give me that. You've encouraged him to behave like a teenager. You might behave like that and damage your own family, but don't come and sympathise when he does it to me and damages my family."

There is another thread on here where a poster has been dating a 40-year-old man who lives in a shared house with his mates and has no money. This is how your ex-husband will turn out. There's nothing to envy there.

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 13:50

and many teetotal vegans cheat too
many ‘boring’ stay at home men also cheat

This is very true and worth remembering. Also the post about cycling. She could've been cajoling everyone to join her at the gym and he'd have strayed.

AgentJohnson · 10/09/2023 13:59

This sounds like YOU have changed ( which is common) and DH has not grown up/ slowed down with you.

This, this, this.

You’re not so dear H left after just one party? Nah, it was an excuse to do what he probably secretly wanted to do all along. You talk about your H like he’s a puppy, distracted by something shinny and easily led, he isn’t, he’s just another man who doesn’t want to grow up.

I think it interesting that you only admit that your marriage was less than optimal after a preamble of paragraphs. It sounds like you convinced yourself that the life you had built was enough for the both of you and now you know it wasn’t. He was always this guy.

Why are the men in your story either easily led puppies or way to loyal doormats. This woman’s H could leave and if she’s too busy partying, he could go for residence.

Wakintoblueskies · 10/09/2023 13:59

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:47

No, I’ll not blaming her. I’m suggesting she is a little bit culpable. But I knew when I posted this that I was being ridiculous as you are all of course right.

there is still a teeny bit of me that thinks friends have a responsibility to take care of each other though. I didn’t choose her friendship, I married into it. And there she’s been forcing her will on ppl uninvited. I should have told her ardently to leave me and my family alone. But, i acknowledge she’s isn’t responsible.

i guess I’m worried about how to respond when she comes over to give big hugs. After everything I think I can just tell her how annoying she is can’t I? I also want to tell her that I think her priorities are all wrong and that her lifestyle choices suck. Is that fair?

@tescocreditcard loved your message made me laugh out loud. Once i’ve sorted out my head and analysed the situ a bit more, that will be my likely attitude.

Oh dear.

It isn't your friends responsibility at all.
Everyone is an adult and makes their own choices. She doesn't have her 'priorities wrong' or 'a lifestyle that sucks'.

You hear all the time of people moving on from friendships. They do this because their priorities change and the old friendships fizzle out.

It was on you and your DH to let this friendship fizzle out. Neither of you did so its all on you (and your DH) I'm afraid.

TedMullins · 10/09/2023 14:05

Others have already said it but calling partying “anti family behaviour” is bizarre. Once kids are older and need less care and supervision parents are entitled to enjoy themselves. Her behaviour is not a value judgement on your family and you have no right to judge it. If nobody else in the group wanted to party with her, they’re all grown autonomous adults capable of saying no.

It sounds like your marriage had issues anyway which you’re keen to gloss over, and the fact your H wanted to let his hair down sometimes was the icing on the cake. He’s a shitbag for cheating, no argument there, but while she sounds annoying monopolising the dinner party soundtrack she hasn’t done anything wrong by wanting or inviting her friends to join in. She could easily flip it back on you and say you were the one trying to impose a boring, stuffy lifestyle on your husband and the wider group. Just focus on finding people with values that match yours and living the life you want.

Rosiem2808 · 10/09/2023 14:08

So he chose drugs over you. He chose. Nobody made him do it - he did it of his own free will. No encouragement from any other individual should have made him choose drugs over you. he chose to let that individual (who is pretty sad by the sound of it) influence him into it.

He will live to regret this and you should be strong and move on

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:11

AgentJohnson · 10/09/2023 13:59

This sounds like YOU have changed ( which is common) and DH has not grown up/ slowed down with you.

This, this, this.

You’re not so dear H left after just one party? Nah, it was an excuse to do what he probably secretly wanted to do all along. You talk about your H like he’s a puppy, distracted by something shinny and easily led, he isn’t, he’s just another man who doesn’t want to grow up.

I think it interesting that you only admit that your marriage was less than optimal after a preamble of paragraphs. It sounds like you convinced yourself that the life you had built was enough for the both of you and now you know it wasn’t. He was always this guy.

Why are the men in your story either easily led puppies or way to loyal doormats. This woman’s H could leave and if she’s too busy partying, he could go for residence.

I agree, but not about her H. Her will is strong and he’s not in a good place and depressed cuz of it but dependent on her as can’t face life without her. He is also in total denial and pretends he’s having a great time but to me looks totally false and fed up. you are totally right about my H though. He was always this guy but forgive me for thinking that he might have grown up. He was quite conventional in some ways in his late 20s and I thought that would naturally come out more later in life but he has instead embraced tragic old hippy guy instead, like when he was 23. I wish he could have split with me first and then gone out doing his whoring (sorry awful word but that’s how I feel right now) after perhaps talking to me about his issues with me before that. But he didn’t let on how he was feeling until an argument last week and then out it all comes like a torrent of sick and it’s too late.

OP posts:
nobodysdaughternow · 10/09/2023 14:13

You sound as though you have been trying to control your relationship for years.

'We like to stay in'

'We don't want to party again, we're too old'

'We have build a safe, healthy and loving family because we haven't been to parties'

It all sounds so dictatorial and stifling. You have reacted angrily to party girl telling her husband what to do, but what about you?

I would turn elsewhere for support. If you issue party-girl a 'ticking off', you may loose all of your friends too.

Helpmepleaseimbusy · 10/09/2023 14:17

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:11

I agree, but not about her H. Her will is strong and he’s not in a good place and depressed cuz of it but dependent on her as can’t face life without her. He is also in total denial and pretends he’s having a great time but to me looks totally false and fed up. you are totally right about my H though. He was always this guy but forgive me for thinking that he might have grown up. He was quite conventional in some ways in his late 20s and I thought that would naturally come out more later in life but he has instead embraced tragic old hippy guy instead, like when he was 23. I wish he could have split with me first and then gone out doing his whoring (sorry awful word but that’s how I feel right now) after perhaps talking to me about his issues with me before that. But he didn’t let on how he was feeling until an argument last week and then out it all comes like a torrent of sick and it’s too late.

None of your business OP. You sound obsessed with this woman

Mojoj · 10/09/2023 14:20

You want different things. That's it. It's no-one's fault. Your husband obviously wants to live his life differently from yours. His choice and nothing to do with your partying friend.

Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 14:23

He is also in total denial and pretends he’s having a great time but to me looks totally false and fed up.

Or you could be in total denial. Or the truth could be somewhere in the middle, more likely. I'm sorry your DH is a cheating shit, but you are still fixated on her. Like when you were glad you could still be cross with her for not telling you he'd cheated, it sounds like you're determined to make her the target of your ire. Perhaps it's a reaction to the scale of the hurt and how recent it all is, but in time it will become clearer and she won't loom so large in all of this. For now, focus on yourself and forget about her. She's really nothing to do with your marriage and with how best to get yourself out of it in one piece.

ThePoshUns · 10/09/2023 14:25

OP you seem to have spent more time analysing party woman and her husband's relationship than you have your own .

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:25

No offence but he was my husband. I am completely in my rights to try and influence his behaviour and he can try to influence mine. Not saying we both have to BE influenced. She’s just some busybody that is pushing her agenda through when not welcome. So no fuck off to her I say.

and in response to anti family statement. Sorry but I do think there is something about extensive and regular narcotic use that is anti family. Nothing wrong with festivals and going out. Let’s not forget I’ve been on many big events including a festival in last year and am not opposed to them. In fact I like them sober. What I’m opposed to is going out in that capacity with peer pressure. There is a big difference between a healthy social life and being distracted with chemicals that take you mind off what’s important. How are you possibly being a good parent if you’re forever absent and standing in a field off your tits? How is trying to leverage someone away from their family in order to do that not being ‘anti family’? I don’t oppose going out in fact I’m pretty sure from my messages you can tell I’m a pretty human-y type person who likes to chat. I just didn’t cope well with having the extreme version shoved down my throat, but again I get it. It’s not her fault. It was always going to happen.

OP posts:
Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:26

Anyway am off again. Thinking I have probably said too much!

OP posts:
Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:27

ThePoshUns · 10/09/2023 14:25

OP you seem to have spent more time analysing party woman and her husband's relationship than you have your own .

Honestly, what are you on? I know about her relationship coz she tells me ffs.

OP posts:
Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 14:27

Also this - Her will is strong and he’s not in a good place and depressed cuz of it but dependent on her as can’t face life without her. - is because you're closer to him and see her as the two-dimensional villain, but doubtless her DH would see her other sides and that she might have her own battles, whereas your DH outwardly seems/acts like he's having a great time out partying, even taking it further than her by cheating. You're in a tunnel vision mode and unable to see the bigger picture but everyone here is seeing it differently - and they really wouldn't if she were genuinely at fault here, they're be calling it out. Sorry it's a horrible time and you've got a lot to go through, but it's not about her.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:29

She is pretty two dimensional tbf.

OP posts:
Pinkdelight3 · 10/09/2023 14:31

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 14:29

She is pretty two dimensional tbf.

To you, maybe. But no one is.