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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:52

God you are all such nice and fair minded people. Ok so she is not culpable but she is annoying. I should have had the courage to stand up to this all years ago even if it meant parting from H.

I will be cool and fair with her when I see her and then avoid her. She after all know about the fling with HER mate (not known to me) and hasn’t told me so bad points there perhaps.

but yes, to hell with them all. I’ve got this. Am turning attention to me now. Thanks everyone. X

OP posts:
whyisitallsohard · 10/09/2023 09:55

You said it’s hard to know if it’s them or you. It’s all of you! Youre still part of the group. Dont uou know what boundaries are at your age?? But in this case, if this weirdo group is affecting you, then the problem is you. Go make new friends. Perhaps a new husband too. 50 yr olds raving and doing drugs and cheating, sound like a bunch of toxic boomers. I cant stand your generation

BaronessBomburst · 10/09/2023 09:59

Party girl has not been a shit friend. She is who she is, and has never pretended to have been anything else. She doesn't owe anyone anything and hasn't dangled the lifestyle under DH's nose; he already knew it was there.
But you can take solace in the fact that it's all going to unravel. Your DC are going to blame DH for the divorce and as teenagers there's nothing less cool than a middle age man carrying on like that. So that's two more relationships he's fucked up.
Party girl's children know she prefers drunk and drugs to them and it will most definitely affect their relationship. I've watched everything spiral out of control for a friend I was once close too. She wouldn't listen and wouldn't let us help. We were boring with our jobs and mortgages. Now her children hate her, whilst she hates us.
DH is going to age badly with that lifestyle and end up very alone.

IrritableVowel · 10/09/2023 10:00

I will be cool and fair with her when I see her and then avoid her. She after all know about the fling with HER mate (not known to me) and hasn’t told me so bad points there perhaps.

All the previous stuff aside. This stinks.

She is no friend of yours OP

If she has the nerve to be pally and huggy, having not told you about the fling, I don't think you'd be wrong to say something like - you weren't too worried about me when you decided to turn a blind eye to my husband cheating on me

That is enough of a reason to distance yourself. No need to mention the rest of her bullshit antics

BlastedPimples · 10/09/2023 10:02

It's your h's fault. What a twat he sounds like too.

Anneta · 10/09/2023 10:02

Everyone on this thread is advising you very clearly NOT to say anything to this woman, that the blame for this lies solely in one place but you seem to be ignoring the advice and are determined to blame this woman, at least partially for his actions. I think that you will massively regret the backlash that will come from her, her husband and the rest of your group if you try to lay the blame for your marriage break up with her. Of course it’s not her fault in any way. How she spends her life, how she raises her family and who she leaves them with when she parties is really none of your business. As many people have pointed out, you are directing your anger and upset in the wrong direction.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 10/09/2023 10:02

I agree with @tescocreditcard . Help mid life crisis man to pack, and wave him off.

I'd be very surprised if he wasn't trying to crawl back before long, but in your shoes I'd take this as an opportunity to build a new life, albeit reduced, away from toxic people and situations.

jeaux90 · 10/09/2023 10:03

OP this is an opportunity for you.

It's good timing if she comes in for a hug when you see her to say "please don't hug me" and start creating some distance. Your boundaries are important and if you are angry with her for being a shit friend then it's time to go no or low contact.

All of this is your DHs fault though and I would be encouraging a swift divorce that centres your DC and their needs.

MentholLoad · 10/09/2023 10:05

whyisitallsohard · 10/09/2023 09:55

You said it’s hard to know if it’s them or you. It’s all of you! Youre still part of the group. Dont uou know what boundaries are at your age?? But in this case, if this weirdo group is affecting you, then the problem is you. Go make new friends. Perhaps a new husband too. 50 yr olds raving and doing drugs and cheating, sound like a bunch of toxic boomers. I cant stand your generation

for the love of cheeses, 50 year olds are Gen X, not Boomers!

mainbrochus · 10/09/2023 10:05

OP you need to focus on yourself. Forget the who did what with who and whose fault it is.

start the divorce process rolling. Is there enough money to spilt? Will the kids be ok?

Party girl is a distraction

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 10:06

The party girl was never your friend and never will be, so she wasn’t a “shit friend” she just wasn’t a friend at all. I’d feel resentment towards her in your position, you tolerated her immature behaviour against your better judgement, now dh is engaging in the same kind of thing to your detriment. it sounds like her dh lives a crappy life to please her and I suppose you had that option but made a healthier choice.
Understandably, you felt obliged to hang out with your dh’s friends and be personable but now you get to choose to only have healthy and helpful people in your life. The whole thing sounds like it’s been a toxic mess for years. You can be proud that your dc are coming out if it ok. I imagine party girl’s kids will suffer in the long run as will the health of the friendship group. 30 years of drug and alcohol fuelled partying will have a lot of repercussions over the coming years.

Jk987 · 10/09/2023 10:12

Such a long post I don't know where to start!
You've written so much about this party girl and you're very scathing of her. There's nothing wrong with being glam, with going to festivals at 50 - good on her! What's it to you? She obviously accepts your lifestyle and wants to be friends but I think you feel threatened as if you need to justify your lifestyle. Why?

It's almost like you've gone the other way, trying to live as conservative life as possible and berating yourself for overindulging the odd time recently. You say clearly the relationship with your husband is fragile. Maybe you're growing apart - that's no one's fault, it happens.

It's haven't hear the phrase 'got off' since the 90's - I take it that means kissing?

I

Loubelle70 · 10/09/2023 10:15

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

Im sorry. This is awful situation to be in. I wouldn't be angry at party woman but id be angry at husband.very.
What gets my goat, possibly he's waited until kids are nearly left home, so don't have to pay child support for much longer etc. Also, hes getting older and he won't be able to keep it up tbh, he will get fed up after a while. Hes mid life crisis man. He will eventually miss the comfort of home. Take some comfort in that OP. Hes cheated. Working and partying, he will tire. Dont let him back. He will miss elements of your life together. Not initially but he will xxx

Letsrunabath · 10/09/2023 10:16

I think your focus is on the wrong person. Your husband was taking drugs and likely under the influence made poor decisions. If you can’t go to counselling has he a good friend you could talk to, try and understand why he wants to leave you and his family. I’m sure in the cold light of day he will have a wake up call to all that he will loose.

LittleMonks11 · 10/09/2023 10:18

whyisitallsohard · 10/09/2023 09:55

You said it’s hard to know if it’s them or you. It’s all of you! Youre still part of the group. Dont uou know what boundaries are at your age?? But in this case, if this weirdo group is affecting you, then the problem is you. Go make new friends. Perhaps a new husband too. 50 yr olds raving and doing drugs and cheating, sound like a bunch of toxic boomers. I cant stand your generation

50s are Gen X not Boomers. I'm 52. Be interested to know why you hate me.

Loubelle70 · 10/09/2023 10:18

This is your opportunity to stay away from party woman. You can also say to her what you like, you dont over party, take drugs etc...so dont ask or pressurize anymore. If she does walk away

gannett · 10/09/2023 10:19

Party woman sounds fun and I hope I'm like her at that age.

The thing is, it's not even her lifestyle that made your husband cheat. It's possible to have a hard-partying lifestyle and still be loyal to your partner. He cheated in the context of partying, but it's a separate issue. Someone who is minded to cheat will do so whether they're at a party, on a work trip or in a sports club.

Lostinbrum · 10/09/2023 10:19

Your focus is misguided. Your husband is doing drugs, has cheated and your marriage is over. Concentrate now on setting up a new life for you and your kids and cut the toxic group of tossers out of your life forever

MentholLoad · 10/09/2023 10:20

LittleMonks11 · 10/09/2023 10:18

50s are Gen X not Boomers. I'm 52. Be interested to know why you hate me.

by 'interested' do you mean 'dont give a fuck' @LittleMonks11 ? 🤣

queenMab99 · 10/09/2023 10:23

Give yourself time and space to make positive decisions about your life, what do you like to do? are there activities you take pleasure in, which don't involve having a wild time, drugs and booze? What kind of environment do you want in the way of house, decor and organization. If you are single you can choose all these things without having to compromise with someone else's tastes.
Your post is mostly about what you don't want, and what you are losing. Just think what you will gain. When you are young, and in a couple, you do things together and it often doesn't seem like a compromised life, but a single life in your late 40s onwards is wonderful. If you have new activities/hobbies you will make a new circle of friends who you are in tune with.
Forget blame, just be too busy doing your own thing to see people who don't make you feel good.

Gjendefloooo · 10/09/2023 10:24

You need to forget party girl.
She has nothing to do with your husband leaving you.
If it hadn't been party girl inviting people to go to festivals and parties, DH would still have found random people to party with.
Party girl did not force him to take drugs and shag some other woman.

Basically over the years, you have changed and she hasn't. And that's fine. There's no rule that says a 50 year old can't wear hot pants and dance the night away. DH still wants that kind of lifestyle. You've grown apart.
He's a dick though for cheating. It's him you should be focussing on and not her. Also the OW is not innocent either, obviously, yet you barely mention her and just blame party girl.

Loubelle70 · 10/09/2023 10:26

LittleMonks11 · 10/09/2023 10:18

50s are Gen X not Boomers. I'm 52. Be interested to know why you hate me.

'i cant stand your generation' (i suppose your parents are of our generation , do you hate them?) thats just awful thing to say. Im 50 and thats a generalisation and we arent boomers. We bring our kids up, pay off the mortgage etc. When the kids are getting older or left home we have earned a life for ourselves.

Dery · 10/09/2023 10:32

@Damnthemall - it’s great to see how your thoughts are evolving.

As others have said, this woman had no responsibility to live her life in a way which suited you (the same does not apply to her DCs, of course). And I’m in my 50s (Gen X, as noted above 😀) and we go to festivals (no drug taking, mind), as well as parenting and working full time. So your version of settling down does seem
a tad extreme.

But the real point is that what normally happens is that rather than friends accommodating each other, you find like-minded friends. It sounds like you were trapped in this friendship group rather than being able to move on at the natural time, because of your STBXH’s connection with it. That’s really tough on you.

But you sound great, OP, and overall very levelheaded. It’s fine to quietly step back from the group - you can say you need some time to get used to your new normal. You can approach this woman and the group entirely on your terms because you don’t have to accommodate your STBXH.

WunWun · 10/09/2023 10:34

whyisitallsohard · 10/09/2023 09:55

You said it’s hard to know if it’s them or you. It’s all of you! Youre still part of the group. Dont uou know what boundaries are at your age?? But in this case, if this weirdo group is affecting you, then the problem is you. Go make new friends. Perhaps a new husband too. 50 yr olds raving and doing drugs and cheating, sound like a bunch of toxic boomers. I cant stand your generation

You sound like a nasty, ignorant and judgemental person who can't even read a post properly.

TheaBrandt · 10/09/2023 10:36

I get why you feel like that but I think you might regret it if you unleash at her. Rant on here or alone but you will look unhinged if you voice your first post - sorry.