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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 10:37

I’m not saying dh shouldn’t take responsibility here, just trying to unravel things for the op’s peace of mind. There is another way of looking at this.
dh is actually party boy. He has hung out with his partying friends including party girl for years because he likes that lifestyle.
In marrying you, he compromised on that, focussed on family and you’ve brought up your kids together. Now that your dc are getting more independent he sees the opportunity to go back to partying again but that’s not what you want.
I suppose rather than thinking party girl was bringing that temptation into your dh’s life, maybe see that he kept her in his life because he wanted to keep that lifestyle accessible to him. So, she was only there because he was party boy all along but repressed it for the sake of your family.
basically maybe you’ve always wanted different things but could find a common ground before by prioritising dc. You’ve done a good job as parents together and will always have that to be proud of. Now you can both make lives to suit yourselves.

Jk987 · 10/09/2023 10:38

As others have said, this woman had no responsibility to live her life in a way which suited you (the same does not apply to her DCs, of course). And I’m in my 50s (Gen X, as noted above 😀) and we go to festivals (no drug taking, mind), as well as parenting and working full time. So your version of settling down does seem
a tad extreme.

Very well said @Dery

WimpoleHat · 10/09/2023 10:43

I will be cool and fair with her when I see her and then avoid her.

I really do think that’s the best response. It will probably hit home harder in the long term too; people like that often thrive on drama and “big” situations and also need everyone to like them and tell them how marvellous they are. If you confront her, you give her that drama and she’ll get everyone else rallying round. You’re cool and polite but a bit “off”? She’ll know and she’ll feel it. But she’ll look a bit of a prat if she then complains to others. “Ooh, Damn was a bit off with me - has she said anything to you?” = “No, she hasn’t, she’s probably got a lot of other things to think about” etc etc. And you look mature and detached from it all and she’s the one who will look silly and shallow. But she’ll know. And you’ll know she knows. But you get a much better result - for you.

CurlewKate · 10/09/2023 10:45

WTF is a "human traffic" type mate? Couldn't read past that.

Loubelle70 · 10/09/2023 10:48

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 10:37

I’m not saying dh shouldn’t take responsibility here, just trying to unravel things for the op’s peace of mind. There is another way of looking at this.
dh is actually party boy. He has hung out with his partying friends including party girl for years because he likes that lifestyle.
In marrying you, he compromised on that, focussed on family and you’ve brought up your kids together. Now that your dc are getting more independent he sees the opportunity to go back to partying again but that’s not what you want.
I suppose rather than thinking party girl was bringing that temptation into your dh’s life, maybe see that he kept her in his life because he wanted to keep that lifestyle accessible to him. So, she was only there because he was party boy all along but repressed it for the sake of your family.
basically maybe you’ve always wanted different things but could find a common ground before by prioritising dc. You’ve done a good job as parents together and will always have that to be proud of. Now you can both make lives to suit yourselves.

'maybe see that he kept her in his life because he wanted to keep that lifestyle accessible to him'. Hadn't thought of that .its certainly plausible x

MissSmiley · 10/09/2023 10:50

OP there's no point getting angry at party woman, you said yourself you inherited these friendships when you met your DH but realistically if he's planning to keep up the lifestyle and it's not what you want then you'll not be part of this group anymore, you sadly need to accept this stage of your life is over, you've lost your husband and this circle, they aren't going to pick you over him by the sounds of it

GoryBory · 10/09/2023 10:51

TheProvincialLady · 10/09/2023 08:33

Your focus is on entirely the wrong person. If you choose to have a friend who pressures people to go to parties and takes drugs that’s on you. You could just choose not to have her in your life. If your husband chooses to go to parties, take drugs and get off with other women - that’s on him. Party woman has absolutely no responsibility here.

I agree.

Your thread is mostly about her but she’s completely irrelevant and didn’t even need to be mentioned.

This is about your DH leaving you and it’s not because he wants to go out and party because he could do that anyway.

He’s either found someone else or wants to be single because he thinks he can go and shag lots of different women at these parties.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 10:53

whyisitallsohard · 10/09/2023 09:55

You said it’s hard to know if it’s them or you. It’s all of you! Youre still part of the group. Dont uou know what boundaries are at your age?? But in this case, if this weirdo group is affecting you, then the problem is you. Go make new friends. Perhaps a new husband too. 50 yr olds raving and doing drugs and cheating, sound like a bunch of toxic boomers. I cant stand your generation

We’re not boomers we’re Gen X. The most hard working yet liberal generation, which is fitting. I don’t know why your aiming your wrath at me. I’m divorcing over this because I ALSO think it’s shameful and sad. But you make good points if I think what you’re saying is right - that I am also culpable if she is because I’ve not stopped it and have gone along with it to be part of the crowd and keep H happy. So am complicit. You ought not be ageist. There’s nothing wrong with the boomer generation. They had their challenges like millennials have theirs.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 10/09/2023 10:56

You sound incredibly judgemental so party girl would be happier not having you in her life when this is how you think of her. It’s entirely your husbands fault to decide to cheat on you and your lifestyle. Don’t blame your friend, blame him.

Puffalicious · 10/09/2023 10:57

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:19

Yes, we do have marriage issues, but pretty standard ones, and she knows about them which makes it worse. If I knew a couple who’s marriage was a bit fragile but who were both just getting in with it and trying to do the right thing then I’d not be plaguing them with invitations to go out and create a FOMO situation what makes things worse.

this is the issue I have, I think. She isn’t just an acquaintance she’s more like a cousin or sister in law. I think she’s been irresponsible and although not to blame I still think as a friend she has not been a good one.

fair?

I agree with you here. Life isn't black & white, and this is one of those shades of grey where a good friend should be able to read what people need: in your case space to work through things. You don't have space & time to figure things out if your DH is out/ pissed/ high/ hungover (and the come down from pills/ Coke can be days later).

Obviously this is your DH's fault, but I do feel it's disingenuous of friend to keep encouraging/ pressuring/ goading DH to keep going. It's her choice to have whatever lifestyle she likes, but the goading is unfair.

I love the phrase PP has used, there's a time that it flips from fabulous to fucked. I can assure you that at 50 taking pills it won't be long before she's fucked. I liked a party- I really did- but at 51 my days of thinking I was cool clubbing all night have been over for a long time. I can be cool in many other ways. Having a 19 yo party mad DC, I can also assure your friend that she'll be pretty much invisible to most clubbers.

How to handle it? Keep it general ' You'll need to ask H, it's his decision' is good. Also add 'I do think the partying has contributed- it's not allowed us the time & space I feel we needed' . That keeps it neutral without blaming her, but hopefully she'll feel some guilt. Also a 'I feel I need to work through this on my own. I've not processed myself/ the kids need my attention.'

It's so shit OP. Thinking of you.

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 11:00

I don’t think you could have stopped it if you tried and you’re not culpable fit not having done so. Life is more complicated than that. Imagine saying “you will not see your old friends any more because I don’t like their lifestyle” to your partner! You don’t get to choose their friends. You made a sensible choice to accept his friends and find a balance where your dc came first. I think you’ve been pragmatic and logical. Just because you want different things now it does not make either of you bad people.

Blough · 10/09/2023 11:02

@Loubelle70 you don’t need to quote entire (enormous) OP to reply.

Helpmepleaseimbusy · 10/09/2023 11:05

Your marriage breakdown is yours and your husbands responsibility. NOt anyone else's.

You keeping going on about party girl (but sorry had to skim through that bit) but it's nothing to do with her. What she does with her marriage and social life is none of your business.

Loubelle70 · 10/09/2023 11:06

Blough · 10/09/2023 11:02

@Loubelle70 you don’t need to quote entire (enormous) OP to reply.

Be kind. Ive not been on long. Thankyou for your short reply

Puffalicious · 10/09/2023 11:07

MolkosTeenageAngst · 10/09/2023 09:49

You’re being ridiculous, non of this is your partying friends fault. The world doesn’t revolve around you, your friend has the right to live her life as she wants. It’s not your place to tell her you don’t agree with her lifestyle and honestly, if your marriage was so weak that the offer of a few festivals and parties broke it that’s really not her problem. It’s normal for friends to invite friends out, she doesn’t have to change her lifestyle so she isn’t ‘tempting’ a bunch of grown adults to join her. If her husband made the decision to leave her because he didn’t like partying would it be your fault for living a lifestyle where you stayed home, constantly saying no to nights/ weekends out etc and making him think that’s what he wanted? Of course not! Your husband is a grown man, he’s obviously miserable in the marriage which is between you and him only, nothing to do with your friend.

Bottom line is it sounds like you don’t like this woman, which begs the question why have you maintained a relationship with her at all? Was it just so you have someone to judge and look down on and to feel all holier than thou about because you view your life choices to be oh so superior yo her? Did you enjoy having someone to hitch and moan and gossip about to others?

Sorry but you sound like the problem in this situation, by all means tell this woman what you think if you think it’ll make you feel better but expect to look like the unhinged one and to lose other members of the friendship group when your true thoughts and feelings come out and they realise how fake and judgemental and self centred you really appear to be.

This is so unfair & horrid. How can you try to bring down someone who is clearly in shock & pain? I'll bet you wouldn't be so callous in real life.

The friend sounds like a total arsehole. You don't sound far off yourself.

BlastedPimples · 10/09/2023 11:09

@Damnthemall I'm sorry you're going through this.

I would say it's on your h rather than you. He chose to take pills, party like a teen and betray you and break up his family.

I hope you do divorce him even though it will be pita for you financially etc. Divorce is shit but there's no other way sometimes.

Be prepared for him crawling back in a few weeks.

JudgeRudy · 10/09/2023 11:14

Oh dear. How tragic that you've come this far and have faltered at the last hurdle but sadly I don't think its your friends fault. Whilst you want a different lifestyle to her, hers isn't 'wrong' and she's no more encouraging or pressuring people to party than you (and others in your circle) are pressuring partners to 'stay in and settle down'. Unfortunately you and your husband now want different things and your timing is off. I suspect in a few years time he'll want what you want.
Only you two can decide if your relationship can survive. This 'storm' might be a few years and will take some weathering.
Whatever the outcome, I do think you need to make it clear that he cannot opt out of family life. Maybe look together at some rentals on line (for him) but make it clear you expect the responsibility for your children to be 50/50. You could also look at getting your home valued too. The reality of separation might shake some sense into him. In the meantime book a few days away and ensure that he comes home to an empty house now and then.

fiddlesticksandotherwords · 10/09/2023 11:15

To be totally honest, I think if a family friend kept on and on at us about her 'PartyOnDude' lifestyle, persuaded my DH to join in, and while away at a festival he decided to shag some other woman and decide that married life with me was no longer what he wanted, then yes, I'd be rather pissed off with her too.

Puffalicious · 10/09/2023 11:15

LittleMonks11 · 10/09/2023 10:18

50s are Gen X not Boomers. I'm 52. Be interested to know why you hate me.

Same. Why do you hate an entire generation? FFS.

Itcanhappeninanysituation · 10/09/2023 11:17

The person who cheated is your husband, for whatever reason. He cheated. Not party girl. Think your focus should be on that.

He may be going through a mid life crisis, you have have reached different chapters in your life.

Please stop wasting your emotional engergy on party girl and focus on bright future you have ahead of you.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 11:18

Thank you everyone. Great responses. It’s getting a bit nasty in places so I think I’ll wrap up as the point was to gather opinions so as not to make a huge blunder rather than have myself exposed to abuse. I was just asking questions is all.

I appreciate all the (helpful) responses and feel much clearer after having looked at it through all of your eyes!

OP posts:
LadyBird1973 · 10/09/2023 11:21

Fwiw, I think you are going to be much much happier in the long run, when the dust has settled and you only have to think about what you want from your own life and not be managing your man child husband.
Your kids will be happier too - an aging party animal dad is sad af!
Your 'friend' hadn't been a friend to your marriage but she isn't responsible - he's made his own choices and likely they will bite him on the arse eventually. Even if not, you aren't compatible anymore and you don't need him!

Puffalicious · 10/09/2023 11:22

fiddlesticksandotherwords · 10/09/2023 11:15

To be totally honest, I think if a family friend kept on and on at us about her 'PartyOnDude' lifestyle, persuaded my DH to join in, and while away at a festival he decided to shag some other woman and decide that married life with me was no longer what he wanted, then yes, I'd be rather pissed off with her too.

Yup

hev126 · 10/09/2023 11:24

Itcanhappeninanysituation · 10/09/2023 11:17

The person who cheated is your husband, for whatever reason. He cheated. Not party girl. Think your focus should be on that.

He may be going through a mid life crisis, you have have reached different chapters in your life.

Please stop wasting your emotional engergy on party girl and focus on bright future you have ahead of you.

Agree.

You seem to think you DH was happy with a quiet, family, non-party lifestyle and was corrupted by her. If she had that affect on people who were genuinely not interested, surely she'd have converted you back to your old ways? If she's the evil temptress why did it work on him and not you?

He's done what he's done because HE wanted to

Puffalicious · 10/09/2023 11:24

Good luck OP. Ignore the nasty. Feel free to come back & ask questions anytime.