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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friends anti family behaviour and it’s part in my divorce

229 replies

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 08:24

Long, but hopefully not boring as there is a question at the end…

Also, I need to be careful here as this is quite outing, but I need some advice and opinions and have name changed to mitigate risk.

Situation is that I am 50 and have been married with two now teenage DCs for 20 years. Socially me and H have belonged to a well established group comprising of similar age, affluent type people most of whom are also married with kids. Before marriage, we were ‘human traffic’ type mates, going out a lot and friendships turning into partnerships, living for the weeks types etc.

Over the years family demands obviously clipped the wings of our social lives and the women in the group have especially grown up, hit peri, relinquished parties, drinking and late nights as most have ft jobs and other, better things to do quite frankly. All pretty standard stuff I think. Some including me have really called time on clubbing, festivals, etc which considering our age is kinda to be expected.

That is all but one woman in the group. This particular individual has taken it upon herself over the years to be the party girl promoter, taking up DJing in her 50s, going out clubbing and socialising at every opportunity and dragging her husband along. She doesn’t work, he has a highly paid stressful job. They have two teenage DCs. It’s a bit of a running joke that he doesn’t really want to do the whole social life thing and is forced into it by her but in the past she has laid down the law and we know a few years ago she gave him an ultimatum and said join me or I’m leaving you. so to keep them together he works hellish hours and then goes out for three day festivals and nights out regularly leaving their two teenage DCs alone or with granny.

so, that’s their business, but over the years her behaviour has raised some eyebrows. She is really glam and a massive attention seeker and constantly pesters people to party with her, she’s only happy when the men are giving her attention and when she is getting compliments. Always got a drink in her hand. Some people admire her and say she is ‘marvellous’. Some people find her irritating because she rattles cages - including mine - by pressuring people into going out and clubbing, usually with cocaine, booze and pills in the mix, when everyone else have been busy paying bills, looking after family etc etc. there are mutterings behind her back that she is off the rails and that she has taken the whole middle class hedonism thing way too far, but she seems to thrive on this lifestyle and is so vivacious it’s difficult to dislike her.

i fall into the latter. She has upset me in the past and I have tried to tell her. Life for me and H has not been easy. Back in the day we were both party heads but we turned things around and built a nice house together, stayed in and focused on our family. We are not high earners and we had our differences but our hearts have always been in the right place and we worked bloody hard and focused on the kids. It paid off. We have built such a stable unit and the kids have absolutely now worried and are healthy and thriving. We have fewer dramas and issues than any other family we know. Settled, healthy and loving.

that is until now

over the last twelve months there have been lots of parties. The kids in the group are growing up and need less childcare so this gradual freedom is opening up doors for some to go to more things. Because it was a big birthday year, me and H ended up going to two big events with said party girl and quite a few of the others. one for instance was a trip for our joint birthdays along with others from the group. It was fun, but I can’t really drink or party any more and on all occasions I ended up VERY ill (self inflicted) for about three days afterwards whilst all the crap left my system. As a result I told DH that last year was the exception and that I have to stop drinking as it’s so bad for my well-being and mental health. I was happy to accept that at 50 I need to face up to the fact that I can’t hold my life together and pretend I’m 28 at the same time.

anyways, festival time comes around again this year and so H went on his own this time with party girl, her DH and some of her other mates. I was fine about that as accept we have different needs.

roll forward six weeks and he’s now leaving us. My youngest son is 15. He (H) claims he wants to go to parties and that he wants me to go too, but I don’t want to and that’s an issue for him. The fact I like staying in and a quiet life is a deal breaker for him. Even though I’m not stopping him going out he wants a partner in crime. He didn’t talk about it and has refused offer of counselling.

then, after a bit of pushing I also find out that at the festival he got off with one of the women in the group (he was microdosing on pills all weekend so was obviously on a certain frame of mind).

he of course denies that this is the reason for wanting to get out of our marriage now, and says that his behaviour is symptomatic of our bad relationship. I was perfectly prepared to wait until the kids were older to have this conversation and continue working hard and saving so we had some choices at 55 whether we stayed together or not. But no, he wants a social life and that’s that and he wants it now.

my question is, do you think that party girl is just a little bit culpable in this ending through pushing anti family behaviour over the years?

my view has always been that family life and ‘doing the right thing’ is hard enough so the last thing a couple needs is to have pressure and temptation laid at their door of someone saying to get your glad rags on dance the night away in hot pants and a bra. when you’re tired, when you’re skint and when you just want an early night this was very annoying and unsettling. And this has been consistent pressure, to join her way of life and live for the moment like that’s the answer to all your problems.

and now see what’s happened. Like the devil has been whispering in our ears and H being very easily led has finally given in and now our family is broken up.

we were fragile, yes, but not a lost cause and we had our priorities right. we got on, highly functioning in fact, now he wants to pack it in just as we were getting somewhere so he can kick up his heals and find a fun partner who likes to party. perhaps if our friends had been a bit more supportive then this would not have happened. I don’t know what do you think, has party girl chipped away over the years and contributed to our family’s early demise? I need to know because she’s supposed to be a good friend and I know she’ll be around to give hugs when the cat is out of the bag. I feel like at the moment she has been part of the problem as she bought unsustainable, unhealthy and anti-family lifestyle to our door that H has now let himself get sucked into. I know he is to blame of course and maybe me too, but I think our friends led by party girl have been a bad influence.

OP posts:
Heyhoherewegoagain · 10/09/2023 09:18

H obvs has massive FOMO which he wouldn’t have if party girl was not dangling under his nose.

This is the real issue. It sounds like you’ve been dragged along for the ride with this group, which is fine, till something happens. That something has now happened and the situation is now untenable for you. You’ve grown up and they haven’t. As others have said it’s time for you to move your life forward.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:19

Yes, we do have marriage issues, but pretty standard ones, and she knows about them which makes it worse. If I knew a couple who’s marriage was a bit fragile but who were both just getting in with it and trying to do the right thing then I’d not be plaguing them with invitations to go out and create a FOMO situation what makes things worse.

this is the issue I have, I think. She isn’t just an acquaintance she’s more like a cousin or sister in law. I think she’s been irresponsible and although not to blame I still think as a friend she has not been a good one.

fair?

OP posts:
LogicVoid · 10/09/2023 09:19

Party girl is simply a red herring. Sometimes, it isn't a matter of blame. Things just haven't worked out. You and DH have chosen different paths at this point in your relationship.

Consider counselling so that you can both move on positively, possibly together, but more likely going your own ways. Modelling healthy parental behaviour that you want your children to see doesn't mean staying together.

Septemberlady · 10/09/2023 09:20

I wouldn’t blame party girl. Your husband is an adult and presumably having a midlife crisis.

Bruisername · 10/09/2023 09:22

Well it’s obviously your husband who is the problem here but she isn’t your friend. Has she mentioned your H snogging her friend?

So on your specific question of what to do when she comes round offering hugs - just don’t let her. Tell her you don’t need her faux concern and leave her to her own life. It’s not like you like her very much anyway so. It having her in your life isn’t going to be a hardship.

as for your husbands mid life crisis - I’m sorry it’s hit before your kids have left home. It really sucks for them and you are going to have to be the one who smiles and goes on. Don’t blame anyone else - don’t be bitter. Focus on building a new family unit without your H and focus on building yourself a happy future

CyberCritical · 10/09/2023 09:24

Your husband made vows and a commitment to you. He is fully and wholly responsible for any lapse in those.

Your friend is who she is, take it or leave it, but she didn't make your husband be an utter twat, he did that all by himself.

Leoislazy · 10/09/2023 09:24

Whatever the friend’s parenting and lifestyle decisions your husband would have gone this way regardless.
My ex did, without your friend on the sidelines.
My friends ex husbands did, without your friend on the sidelines.

Your husband probably would not have gone down this ridiculous 1999/ fatboy slim route but it would have happened. In the boring, predictable, bog standard way mens midlife crisis’s do. With an affair and then all the normal ‘script’ bollox that follows.

Stop looking at her. This is completely him. He’ll leave and then come crawling back in a years time begging for forgiveness. Decide what your worth in the meantime.

LadyRoughDiamond · 10/09/2023 09:24

I get your animosity towards this woman, I really do, but you’ve dodged a bullet with your husband. You’ll now not need to nurse him through drug-induced depression, dementia and everything else that’s coming his way. There’s a reason why so many previously hard-partying people find ‘wellness’ or go holistic in middle age. The alternative is tragic.

Looking at her, there’s a fine line between fabulous and fucked - at some point, she’s going to cross it. It sounds like there are quite a few people that are not really up for her lifestyle - her own husband included. Divorce the cheating man-child. Enjoy the new balance in your life and show how much happier, healthier and more fulfilled you are living life on your terms, not hers or your husbands. The best revenge is a life well lived.

Snoken · 10/09/2023 09:25

No, it’s not your friends fault. She is living the life that makes her happy and she entitled to do so. If she introduces others to do the same and they like it it’s not her fault. It sounds like you both had a life similar to the one your husband wants again pre-kids. Once the kids start to grow up it’s quite normal to want to take advantage of being able to live the life you want to again. Lose some of the responsibilities and the mundanity of childcare.

I’m a few years younger than you and wouldn’t want to stay in all the time either. I don’t see the point of working hard and not going out just so you have more money when you are older. You need to live now and if your ideal Saturday night is at home on the sofa whilst his ideal Saturday night is out dancing and drinking then that’s what you both should do, but it means you are no longer compatible.

LegendsBeyond · 10/09/2023 09:26

I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s encouraged your DH in this, saying how boring you are & he could have a more exciting life etc. I know someone like this, she’s toxic. That’s said, it’s still your DH’s choice.

cuckyplunt · 10/09/2023 09:26

Classic mid life crisis.
Watch out OP, at some point he will attempt to come crawling back!

LivingDeadGirlUK · 10/09/2023 09:26

I think you have made this more complicated in your head than it is. Men dont just up and leave without somewhere to go. Regardless of parties etc he has met someone else and thinks the grass is greener.

Hes demonstrated that he isn't someone you want to retire with, your kids are almost grown up. This is actually a fantastic opportunity to chuck him and the weird friendship group.

Family is important but yours is almost ready to fly, take some time to think about what you want from the next stage in your life.

UndercoverCop · 10/09/2023 09:28

Your husband was unhappy with his life, if she wasn't around it would be something or someone else. Should he grow up and realise when you get married and have children your responsibilities change and you're not going to be a 50 year old raver, of course but he hasn't. He's a man child. People tend to surround themselves with people who share/collude with their views and their life choices, he's no different to many in that respect.

Fofum · 10/09/2023 09:28

You keep saying do the right thing, what does that mean to you? Because it almost reads as if you expect your husband to stay where he's not happy because to you it's right?

Fortboyard · 10/09/2023 09:29

Your head held high is to focus on your own life and own success with your dc. The friendship group centred on party girl sound very immature and toxic. There’s no need to consider their opinion of you, perhaps they’ll think you’re boring, boo fucking hoo. The best revenge is your life well lived (by your own definition) along with well adjusted dc (despite the choices of their df)
your anger and resentment is totally understandable but it will be better for you if you can let go of that to conserve your energy for things that matter.

iamwhatiam23 · 10/09/2023 09:29

She sounds like my idea of a complete nightmare but it's not her fault . It sounds to me that your dh never really wanted to do the growing up thing but went along with it for you/ an easy life and has now decided he can't do it any more. He is correct in saying that his kissing another woman is a symptom of problems in the marriage because unless he is the type of man for whom cheating is a regular occurrence and just because he can then he was already unhappy to have done it. I don't think you can blame the drugs/ drink because they don't make you want to cheat they simply lower your inhibitions to doing so when you have already been thinking about it. It sounds to me that you have simply grown apart and want different things from your lives. I couldn't stand being with someone who acts like a teenager ( my ex) yet his idea of hell was behaving like a boring adult.

vibecheck · 10/09/2023 09:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is exactly what I was thinking the whole way through! What a strange group of people you sound with a weird dynamic. Leave your husband and be free of all of them, it sounds quite childish and performative.

blackbeardsballsack · 10/09/2023 09:32

You are talking about these men - your DH and her DH - as if they have no agency or free will and have been coerced into partying and debauchery by this woman. Men do what they want to do. I am sorry that your DH was unfaithful and that he wants to divorce, but it's all on him. I would be annoyed at her if she knew he had been unfaithful and hadn't said anything though.

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:33

Perhaps the point of my thread is about friendship values and not marriage vows, as an aside to the situation.

I think I’m curious to know if there is a moral issue here whereby we should all better consider the consequences of our actions on other people.

im dealing with the marriage bit, believe me I am not making excuses for him I think he’s sad. But, I still think that on a friendship level party girl’s behaviour over the years has shown zero respect for other people’s lives.

I need to know if it is fair that right now I tell her she’s been a shit friend. I feel that she needs to know that life isn’t just one big party and she’s been winding ppl up and that there are consequences to the type of lifestyle she promotes with wild abandon and those casualties are now my kids

as with all friendship groups there are some of them that I want to stay in contact with and some I won’t. I am not lashing out at her but feel I don’t need to lie anymore and tell her she’s been an unhelpful dick all this time. This is between me and her and is almost aside from my Hs crisis. I want to tell ppl what I really think of her now but am afraid that I’ll regret it and see it like the majority of ppl on this thread in six months time. Perhaps I should give it more time, but how do I deal with her I’m the meantime? If I tell her what I feel then I may regret it but if I let her in and do big hugs then I can’t really go back on that later on either.

OP posts:
Gazelda · 10/09/2023 09:34

OP, you had a marriage that at time was difficult. You've worked through it and built a life that works for you.

It's not the life he wants.

He's not the man you deserve.

But that's nothing to do with her. She sounds like a nightmare and I wouldn't like her in my social circle. Her influence over your ex is entirely his fault. She didn't lure him away, he chose to follow.

And no, it's not fair to tackler her over the part you believe she played. Or her parenting. Apart from anything else, that could leave her and others in the group to believe you're lashing out at anyone and everyone rather than your unfaithful husband.

I think it's time to drop her as a friend. You don't have a high opinion of her. You feel her partly culpable in the breakdown of your marriage. Let her be part of the life you leave behind now that your marriage is over.

WanderinStar · 10/09/2023 09:34

Yes I think you're right op. You have chosen to keep someone in your life who stood against everything you stood for. I wonder, however, what your exh was thinking all along? Did he think she was glamorous and fun while you thought she was irresponsible? I reckon he might have always been liable to have this fairly classic mid life crisis.
If I were you I'd avoid party girl for now. I wouldn't be able to bear hugs and bestie comfort from her. And then see how you feel in a couple of months.

itsgettingweird · 10/09/2023 09:34

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:19

Yes, we do have marriage issues, but pretty standard ones, and she knows about them which makes it worse. If I knew a couple who’s marriage was a bit fragile but who were both just getting in with it and trying to do the right thing then I’d not be plaguing them with invitations to go out and create a FOMO situation what makes things worse.

this is the issue I have, I think. She isn’t just an acquaintance she’s more like a cousin or sister in law. I think she’s been irresponsible and although not to blame I still think as a friend she has not been a good one.

fair?

Still unfair.

She's living the life she wants. Her dh has decided to go along with this and party despite not wanting to.

You're loving the life you want. Your dh has decided he still wants to party rather than go along with the quiet life you want.

She has absolutely NOTHING to do with your dh decisions. Plenty of us have managed to say no as adults. You've managed to say no to her.

AgnesX · 10/09/2023 09:36

You're blaming the wrong person. The only one to blame is your husband. At 50 being "easily led/influenced" is no excuse.

It seems that you've grown apart...he's trying to stay what he considers young.

Upwiththelark76 · 10/09/2023 09:36

Let him go and chase his ideas of a party lifestyle . I can guarantee hel soon realise it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. by Which time it’s too late .

it’s not your friends fault. But time to cut the ties with her anyway . You sound like a very together woman who knows what her priorities are . Keep true to all you hold dear and value .

MentholLoad · 10/09/2023 09:37

Damnthemall · 10/09/2023 09:19

Yes, we do have marriage issues, but pretty standard ones, and she knows about them which makes it worse. If I knew a couple who’s marriage was a bit fragile but who were both just getting in with it and trying to do the right thing then I’d not be plaguing them with invitations to go out and create a FOMO situation what makes things worse.

this is the issue I have, I think. She isn’t just an acquaintance she’s more like a cousin or sister in law. I think she’s been irresponsible and although not to blame I still think as a friend she has not been a good one.

fair?

this is correct. she hasn't been a good friend. she isn't a good friend. she sounds like a horrible person to have around. but it still isn't her fault that your husband is leaving.

you don't even need to waste your time blaming her, just be glad that you no longer have to see her at all

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