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Original poster

DH’s brutal take on self love

334 replies

SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 13:49

Looking for suggestions on how to deal with a big issue that’s affecting my marriage. It’s been like this for about a year or so and things aren’t changing. I’m at a loss at what to do it say.
DH has had a kind of ‘moment’ in his head when he turned 50 whereby he has decided he’s put up with negative people who criticise him for too long. He decided that he has the right to just not take ‘their shit anymore’. And that was it. He changed. This change has been demonstrated in his behaviour towards all manner of things, but has caused the most difficulty for me in that he refuses to:

  • compromise with me on anything as that involves a degree of personal sacrifice/negativity for himself. The most tricky one in this for me was an online friendship he started with a single woman. When their public messaging on social media began to include calling each other gorgeous and sending heart emojis, I really began to worry what they were sending each other privately. He wasn’t willing to compromise on this friendship as talking to her made him happy and I was out of order and putting myself first for asking him to stop messaging her (since it was upsetting me).
  • speak to any of my family. He’s cut them out as they make him unhappy. He can’t see that this makes life very difficult for me and is annoyed that I question his right not to see them/socialise with them etc
  • For a period he refused to speak to him own mum as their political views are not aligned. He’s softened on this as she’s now terminally ill.
  • Doesn’t like me talking about our relationship problems with anyone, not even my best friend of 30 years.

He also spends lots of time online, with lots of different profiles, arguing with strangers to make sure his view on the world is heard.

When I try to talk to him about the impact of all of this on me he says I’m not supporting him to stand up for himself and that I should be backing him. He’s also refused to see any of our friends who he thinks I’ve talked to about his behaviour as he thinks I’ve lied to them about his mindset and painted myself as a victim.
So for the past year or so I’ve gone to all friends and family meet ups with the kids, but alone. But this just makes him more pissed off with me. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do here. He says that he’s not putting up with anyone if it doesn’t make him happy, but it seems like the reverse is happening. He’s getting more and more unhappy and can’t understand why I’m not celebrating this life change he’s made. Is he just working up to telling me that I’m the cause of his unhappiness?
He works shifts and only gets the occasional weekend off, so often we are on different time tables. This makes it very difficult to talk. Plus we have 3 kids in the mix too.
What do I do? How can I see things from his perspective?

OP posts:
Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:34

itsmylife7 · 31/08/2023 17:02

So what's the real issue with him and your family?
Are they rude to him ?

Apart from the speaking online to other women, I'm not seeing the real issue.

Is he treating you differently since his "had enough "stage.

My family are complex. I keep them at arms length most of the time, only see them a couple of times a year and they live a couple of hundred miles away. They are never rude to him though. My mum calls me every Sunday evening and it pisses him off no end. He goes mental about her intruding on our evening, just to talk about herself. He can’t distance himself from the fact that although she is a very difficult person, I might still want to talk to her. He thinks I should just cut her out of my life and be done with it. The argument with my sister was about the cost of a jointly purchased Christmas present for someone. She bought it, but had arbitrarily doubled the agreed budget and expected him to pay the difference.

OP posts:
MumGMT · 31/08/2023 17:37

SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:34

My family are complex. I keep them at arms length most of the time, only see them a couple of times a year and they live a couple of hundred miles away. They are never rude to him though. My mum calls me every Sunday evening and it pisses him off no end. He goes mental about her intruding on our evening, just to talk about herself. He can’t distance himself from the fact that although she is a very difficult person, I might still want to talk to her. He thinks I should just cut her out of my life and be done with it. The argument with my sister was about the cost of a jointly purchased Christmas present for someone. She bought it, but had arbitrarily doubled the agreed budget and expected him to pay the difference.

Show quote history

Would he agree to stop complaining about you talking to your mother if you respect his decision not to be around them?
Have you tried that?

skyeisthelimit · 31/08/2023 17:38

OP. You are in a relationship but you are still lonely and unhappy. If you are doing everything on your own then you might as well be single and happy.

He is ignoring your friends and family. He is making you unhappy but "deserves to be happy " himself according to him.

You do know what you need to do. Do you want to be happy or do you want to spend the rest of your life living like this?

TheBrightestStarInTheSky · 31/08/2023 17:41

Sounds about the furthest thing from self love. He's just putting up barriers and behaving incredibly selfish. My way or no way kind of attituse. Self love consists of not harming yourself or others due to negative behaviour patterns.

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:41

MumGMT · 31/08/2023 17:10

Well first of all the emotional affair would have been it for me because I wouldn't get past it, but for some of the other stuff I don't think he's necessarily wrong.

speak to any of my family. He’s cut them out as they make him unhappy. He can’t see that this makes life very difficult for me and is annoyed that I question his right not to see them/socialise with them etc

I think this part is fine. If he doesn't want to speak to them he doesn't have to, and yes it makes things difficult for you, but pandering to relatives or inlaws you dislike is something a lot of people can only do for so long and then they've had enough.

So for the past year or so I’ve gone to all friends and family meet ups with the kids, but alone. But this just makes him more pissed off with me.

In what way? Does he criticise you for going? Is he starting arguments with you or are you starting them by not accepting his decision not to go and be around them?

Doesn’t like me talking about our relationship problems with anyone, not even my best friend of 30 years.
.....................
He’s also refused to see any of our friends who he thinks I’ve talked to about his behaviour as he thinks I’ve lied to them about his mindset and painted myself as a victim.

We all need someone to vent to, but I can also understand why someone wouldn't want to be around their partners friends if they thought the friends knew all their relationship issues. How does he know you talk to him about your relationship problems? My friends tell me theirs but I assume they don't tell their partners/husbands that they were discussing them with me.

This was part of the argument we were having this week. He stopped speaking to my sister nearly 2 years ago because of something she did. It wasn’t the nicest thing to do but I ended up in the middle of the argument, with her just shouting at me because he wouldn’t speak to her. He still is waiting for that to be resolved by her coming directly to him. When I pointed out that all that does is put me in the firing line, his response was that I should be defending him and his views. And until he receives her apology, he decided he’s got no need to speak to her ever again. So I have to keep making excuses at family get togethers as to why he isn’t there so that I don’t have to have his argument by proxy.

Why was she shouting at you that he wouldn't speak to her? Was she trying to speak to him? It sounds very odd tbh
Why did you start making excuses at family get togethers though? Why not just be honest? When people fall out with family they don't tend to go to get togethers, that's normal. The first time they asked you should have just shrugged and said "he refused to come after the argument" instead of making excuses.

Help me understand why it’s fine to never speak to your in laws ever again? And how the logistics of it work.
For example, there is a family get together looming to celebrate a big birthday. DH says he’s not coming because he can’t stand anyone there and won’t waste money on them. Do I tell them that? And then what might their response be? And whose responsibility is it to have that conversation?

I cannot see an easy answer. It’s not fence sitting. It’s not my beef.

OP posts:
Jacopo · 31/08/2023 17:46

I think you should leave him to stew in his own juice. You and the kids will be much happier without this misery guts.

Stravaig · 31/08/2023 17:46

Counter-intuitively, you need to take a leaf out of his book, tune out the negative ie. him, and focus on what you want and need. He has changed. If you met now, you wouldn't be with him. So don't be with him. If there are things that still work, that feel salvageable, that's great - they will form the basis of a solid co-parenting relationship after divorce.

(I sometimes think there's a timing element to ending a relationship, especially with kids involved. It needs to be clearly unravelling, yet not so far gone that there's nothing left to build future civility and amicable co-parenting on.)

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/08/2023 17:47

For example, there is a family get together looming to celebrate a big birthday. DH says he’s not coming because he can’t stand anyone there and won’t waste money on them.

You say the minimum necessary and you don't discuss it. "I will be coming, Fred wont be coming. I will be buying such-and-such / contributing so much as a present". If they ask you why repeat endlessly "Fred wont be coming" and "Fred has decided not to come" and "I will contribute this-much". If they go on at you tell them to ask Fred. He can be rude to them himself if he likes. Take yourself out of the middle.

Thelonelygiraffe · 31/08/2023 17:48

He's being completely unreasonable and selfish.

Self love does not mean being a selfish twat. Self love does not mean putting himself above you. It does not mean ignoring your wishes.

And it certainly doesn't mean him being free to have an emotional affair and you not being allowed to object! Cheeky git.

His version of self love is not compatible with being in a relationship with you, I don't think.

wotanarse · 31/08/2023 17:48

SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 14:08

I’ve tried this approach but it just fuels an argument.

Show quote history

So have the bloody argument FFS. Why are people on Mumsnet so terrified of having an argument?

Tinkerbyebye · 31/08/2023 17:49

Why would you want to

i wouldn’t be putting up with his crap. Either he compromises, or leaves, his choice

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/08/2023 17:49

Help me understand why it’s fine to never speak to your in laws ever again?

That's not your problem. What goes on in your (probably soon to be ex) husband's head is going on in his head not yours.

itsmylife7 · 31/08/2023 17:50

SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:34

My family are complex. I keep them at arms length most of the time, only see them a couple of times a year and they live a couple of hundred miles away. They are never rude to him though. My mum calls me every Sunday evening and it pisses him off no end. He goes mental about her intruding on our evening, just to talk about herself. He can’t distance himself from the fact that although she is a very difficult person, I might still want to talk to her. He thinks I should just cut her out of my life and be done with it. The argument with my sister was about the cost of a jointly purchased Christmas present for someone. She bought it, but had arbitrarily doubled the agreed budget and expected him to pay the difference.

Show quote history

I can definitely understand his anger at agreeing a budget and being expected to pay double.

You admit your family are complex and you're used to their type of behaviour.

He doesn't have to put up with it and it's his right to step away from them.

Do you have a moan to him after the regular calls from your Mum,or does your mood change ?

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:53

wotanarse · 31/08/2023 17:48

So have the bloody argument FFS. Why are people on Mumsnet so terrified of having an argument?

Show quote history

I hate arguing. Hate it. The shouting, the insults, the accusations. He’s a master of ‘attack as defence’ in his logic as well. So currently I’m gaslighting him, I’m twisting the truth to fit my version of events, I’m painting him as the villain, I’m being a bitch and picking a fight etc etc. I can’t deal with that. It’s not in my personality.

OP posts:
Fannyfiggs · 31/08/2023 17:58

Don't argue. Tell him you want a divorce because he's a selfish, gaslighting prick. Stop conversation. See a solicitor. Start divorce proceedings. Done 👍

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 17:59

@itsmylife7 oh I totally agree too about the present thing. I spoke to my sister about it at the time and said it wasn’t ok. But the gift had been given, so what could we do? He cannot get over that and thought that she should back down and not ask for the money. But he never told her that. He left it to me. He’s still waiting for an apology. Since January 2022. Because in his mind he has the righteous higher ground. In my mind I just think ‘oh FFS worse things happen at sea.’ But he must be true to his new principles and not let people walk all over him. So he will never speak to her again.

And yes, I do moan after the phone calls. But if it’s not one thing, it’s your mother.

OP posts:
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 31/08/2023 18:00

I read all your updates. Leave the bastard. His right not to take shit from people does not include giving shit to his wife and her family. Which is what he is doing.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 31/08/2023 18:01

Why are you getting lost in the small stuff? It's very likely he's having at least an emotional affair and god knows what else, he's gaslighting you and being abusive, you're terrified of having an argument with him, but you're fussing over what to say to uncle jim if he asks why he's not there?

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/08/2023 18:03

the gift had been given, so what could we do?

Not give your sister more money than you had previously agreed? She can pay for the rest.

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 18:04

It was an option. But not the one we took.

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 31/08/2023 18:06

It was an option. But not the one we took

"We"?

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 18:07

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 31/08/2023 18:01

Why are you getting lost in the small stuff? It's very likely he's having at least an emotional affair and god knows what else, he's gaslighting you and being abusive, you're terrified of having an argument with him, but you're fussing over what to say to uncle jim if he asks why he's not there?

Yeah I get it. I don’t actually know if he’s still talking to this woman. It was some months ago when it happened.
and the thing about the family asking. Well it’s embarrassing isn’t it?
‘He’s decided not to come today’
’Why?’
‘He’s enforcing boundaries’
‘Well that sounds childish’
’No, it’s his new grown up stance’

OP posts:
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 31/08/2023 18:08

SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 18:07

Yeah I get it. I don’t actually know if he’s still talking to this woman. It was some months ago when it happened.
and the thing about the family asking. Well it’s embarrassing isn’t it?
‘He’s decided not to come today’
’Why?’
‘He’s enforcing boundaries’
‘Well that sounds childish’
’No, it’s his new grown up stance’

Show quote history

Why not say that? It reflects on him, not you.

Divorce would be more constructive though, you'd get your life back.

Original poster
SpectacularSalt · 31/08/2023 18:08

Yep. We. He paid her the money and expected grovelling thanks back. Hasn’t had it (probably because my sister doesn’t realise he’s waiting for it) and will never speak to her again.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 31/08/2023 18:09

@SpectacularSalt

Honestly, you need to tell him that you've given it a lot of thought and you have decided that he is RIGHT! As a result, you have decided that you, too, are entitled to 'be happy' and that you are no longer going to 'take anyone's shit anymore'. And that includes him and his shit. Inform him that as part of your 'new honest and happy life' you will be doing what is 'right' for you. That you will no longer lie or cover for him, ever again, with people he has cut out of his life that you are still in touch with. And that you don't want to hear his opinions conspiracy theories, he can keep them to himself. You only want to hear things you 'agree with' because that will make you happy. And that you are going to pursue your happiness without regards to his. Because that is what he has said is the right thing to do in order to 'be happy'.

Build your own 'new' life. Speak to and see whomsoever you choose, friends or family, whenever you choose. Go visiting or holidaying with them without him, if you so choose. And if you don't want to see or speak to his family and friends, then don't. If you happen to develop some 'online' friendship like he has, so be it. I'm not saying to seek it out, I'm just saying if it 'evolves' as part of your 'new outlook on life', again, so be it.

This 'I'm entitled to feel only happiness' also includes not picking up after him, doing his laundry, running errands or any other 'domestic duties' you may not feel like doing on any given day (or ever again).

And that just as he expects you to shut up and support him in his 'freedom', so do you expect him to shut up and support you in yours, since the paramount importance is for both of you to 'be happy'.

Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, in this case.

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