He doesn’t believe me what the hell do I do?

[ThisNameToday]

Name changed for this as I’m embarrassed and totally lost.

By way of background over the past few years, starting with lockdown, DH and I got into an awful habit of having a drink every night. It just became the norm. Working from home, no school runs, no hobbies or usual work travel, it seemed to relieve the boredom and we had a laugh to be honest.

It has got out of hand though and a glass of wine or two every night, and frequent weekday hangovers just became the norm.

About a month ago we had a huge chat about it and both agreed we needed to make a change.

For the last 3 weeks I have been doing so well. Only having a drink on a Friday night, getting to bed on time, up early with the kids and exercising again. I’m losing weight already and feel great.

Cut to this morning.
He says we need to talk, he loves me to bits but the drinking has to stop.

I was genuinely flabbergasted and said all of the above about the last 3 weeks, and he doesn’t believe me! Last night for example, he thinks I sneakily had a drink and he could smell it on me.
When I protested he said that he knows what he’s been seeing, and I’m clearly not ready to address it or talk about it yet!

I swear with every bone in my body I haven’t been sneaking anything.
I was so so proud of how things are going.

I don’t want to turn this back around on him as he’s not really addressed the daily drinking issue yet he’s just cut back a lot.
But I don’t know how to move the conversation forward either, when we are at a complete stalemate and he wants me to admit something that isn’t true

Please no judgements or harsh comments.
Feeling extremely fragile today.

I’ll take any criticism or feedback at all about the last few years, but how do I convince someone who’s made their mind up that it’s not true? He’s saying our relationship is in trouble if I don’t tell the truth (which I agree with!) but I am telling the truth!

Advice so desperately needed please.

Lots of good advice here OP.

i come from a family with lots of alcoholism, and have struggled in the past with being a daily tippler myself. I’m actually doing Kate B’s excellent Sober School at the moment, with a view to going teetotal.

It seems to me that because you are in the good position of not alcohol-dependent / an alcoholic yourself, you haven’t been fully understanding the alcoholic mindset.
If your partner is drinking 2-3 cans everyday, I’d say he’s a problem drinker. 4+ cans everyday - that’s alcoholism, imv.
He is consciously or subconsciously trying to sabotage you.
Put your own sobriety and good living first, and proceed with care with your husband.

OP it’s so so hard living with a drinker in denial because the only way they’ll face up to it and stop drinking is because they want to. My exdh’s drinking was driven by his MH problems, which were made worse by the drink. I tried being supportive, angry, sad, everything but ultimately it has to come from the drinker. And unfortunately it did destroy our marriage.

We all went through a very difficult 10 or so years and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I guess I’m trying to say that in a way it doesn’t make much difference what you say or do, in my experiences of alcoholism the only way they stop is because they reach rock bottom. Even then that’s no guarantee. So you have to decide what your limit is in terms of their behaviour to you, and look after yourself, because while they are drinking you are not their priority, nothing and no one is.

The good news is that he is over a year and a half sober, and his mental health is so much better. He’ll always have serious depressive episodes, nothing will change that, but without alcohol he can manage them.

How are things op. Did you managed to speak to him?

Hi Mama678 thank you for asking I have just logged on to give a quick update for anyone who was wondering - I can see so many of you put some much time and compassion into giving me advice and support and I can't even begin to thank you enough.

It's been a really tough couple of days which is why I haven't been back. Yesterday didn't go well at all. I know you all told me to be calm but I just couldn't get past him not believing me and it was making us go round in circles because I felt we had no foundation to build on, especially if he couldn't even trust what I was saying when I was telling the real honest truth.

All of your advice came through today though as we have talked on and off all day. I decided this afternoon it wasn't about me anymore and it was about whether or not this marriage can survive and whether we can both face reality and be honest moving forward.

Everything you all said, I think, has saved this relationship.

I backed down and focussed on what I wanted the outcome to be.
When I did that it almost felt like he had nothing else to fight against and he completely broke down. He said he realises he has a serious problem and he currently feels like he is failing in just about every aspect of his life.
He's not - not at all.
But I get what he's saying and after what feels like 2 days of crisis talks, I feel like we're finally on the same page.

We're going to get some outside support. (I did what has been suggested a few times on here and talked a lot about 'us' - rather than sitting there saying well I'm not actually finding it that hard - I didn't think that would be helpful in any way.) I also genuinely think we both might need some outside support.

He realises this is going to be a tough journey now, or he says he does, so we have started thinking about ways to plan our weeks and strategies to help us focus on other things that aren't drink-related. We both recognise that different strategies will work for each of us - e.g. I can have 1 glass of wine, the craving is then fixed, and I can have an early night. Whereas if he has even 1, then he wants more, so his strategy has to be none at all if he's to beat this. So I'm more than happy to go down that route too.

This evening we have just taken all of the alcohol out of the house. We bagged it all up and took it round to my sister with the explanation that we are detoxing and getting summer holiday ready, so removing all temptation! Plus she has a bar in her garden so it's perfect. I have one very happy sister today haha!

There is a long way to go now but I feel like we are on the same page and he's actually telling me the truth.
(I still don't think he believes me about whether I was sneaking anything - I genuinely think he has 100% convinced himself - but I will try to let that go I promise!! )

Thank you again everyone - this has been Mumsnet at it's absolute best.

That sounds like a good place to start, OP, well done to both of you.

Thanks for the update op. And good luck.

This evening we have just taken all of the alcohol out of the house. We bagged it all up and took it round to my sister with the explanation that we are detoxing

Keep an eye on him for symptoms of detoxing in a way that isn't healthy. www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-treatments You may need to seek help. Alcohol is the only drug whose detox can kill you. That's if he is clinically dependent. So over 24 units in a 24 hour period (very vaguely).

A&E if you need it and say that it could be that. Seizures or similar, call 999.

He will probably be fine but just so you have the information.

Thats a great update op! Wishing you both all the luck. Keep us updated x

Sending you loads of luck xxx

Good luck.
If cold turkey doesn't work for him, I recommend the Alan Carr book about limiting alcohol. By limiting it means stopping, and he gives a plan of action and you are not supposed to actually stop drinking altogether until the last few pages of the book. It's a very clever book imo. I was on the path towards problem drinking and read this apx 13 years ago and haven't had a drink since.
Good luck,

The Easy Way to Control Alcohol amzn.eu/d/iD7mwHS

It all sounds positive, but…

He is such a heavy drinker I’m not sure cold turkey will be particularly safe for him. As you’re doing it now, look out for signs and get help if you need to.

He’ll get early withdrawal inside a day: shakes, headaches, sickness, low mood, irritable, won’t be able to sleep, anxiety etc.

Watch out for more severe symptoms after that: seizures, confusion, hallucinations and delirium tremens (high heart rate, fast breathing, severe confusion, fidgety).

He’s going to feel awful. I hope you both get through it.

This

I can see why you did it op but it's worrying that you had to basically go along with his rationale that you have an issue too.

Plus you are already keeping it a secret- you could have told your sister that you needed to cut down because it was becoming an issue but didn't.

Op, you need support. Please try alanon. Is he going to contact gp and any other alcohol support services? Don't try and be his rescuer.

Op I wish you the best of luck.

Please keep posting if it helps and make sure that you are receiving real life support just for you.

He's projecting.

You say that you agree you need to really focus so the house has to be absolutely alcohol free. None ever in there.

How can he say no?

Have you suggested AA?
What was his reaction?
I hope he has the desire & capability to stop, but it's unlikely without help.
People at work, social occasions, the temptation will always be there.
"Just this once" "oh I only had one" (or two, or....
Then comes having to hide it
Anger, defensiveness & denial.
You will be the target.
You gave up, you are controlling, he didn't have a problem......

I'm glad you have had a productive discussion but please do not make his drinking an "us" problem. I realise that may have been a useful strategy to get to a productive conversation but the worst thing you can do for an alcoholic is to let them believe someone else has a role to play in either their drinking or recovery.

You may be happy to let his accusations of your "secret drinking" slide on this occasion just to get to get to the desired outcome but if he has trouble stopping then you can bet he will fall back on that to explain "disappearing alcohol", beware about him using this accusation to fuel his denial. I am not suggesting your husband is a bad person but addiction can turn the loveliest of people into complete arseholes who hurt those they love most and he has already demonstrated some quite manipulative behaviour to avoid confronting his drink problem.

It can be hard to watch someone you care about struggle but he really does have to want to do this for himself and that desire will be harder to come by if you try to protect him from the consequences of his drinking. You can kill an alcoholic with kindness.

If you can have one and stop then I think it's unlikely you have a drink problem but your husband is unable or finds it hard to stop after one which is much more indicative of a drink problem. In AA they say it's the first drink that gets you drunk because once you start you can't stop so it is easier for alcoholics not to drink at all.

He might find AA helpful and you may find Al Anon useful. The national helpline numbers can easily be found on Google as can the details of local meetings. Good luck.

Thank you for the update OP and I wish you both all the best. You made amazing progress.

I would reconsider your approach to not tell anyone. If you didn’t give the real reason for getting rid of the booze to your sister was that down to your embarrassment or because your DH asked you not to say anything?

In the future there will be gatherings with alcohol- the more friends and family who know the truth will be able to support you both and (hopefully) modify their comments and expectations about his alcohol intake at these events.

I would strongly advise against keeping this to yourselves.

Thank you for the words of encouragement and also the productive advice about where this could go next and where we can get help and support. The Alan Carr book sounds good too thank you.

FOJN I do understand everything you have said and I agree.

To the pp who thinks I should be telling my sister and therefore my family all of our personal struggles 2 days into a huge realisation then I hope you’re never in this situation. Some people are very private people and actually, having something to smile about with my family last night (rather than airing all of our issues in public on day 2) was really very nice!

My sister is my best friend and I will tell her absolutely everything. In my own time.
But when someone is on here posting for encouragement I don’t think taking a huge step in a better direction should be met with that kind of comment.

I think the advice against keeping this a secret is extremely important and helpful. As is the advice about the importance of him owning his own problem fully. As you say, he may not be able to get there all in the space of 24 hours, and that is understandable.

But, as I think you realise, it will become important before long to tell people around you, so your dh can have their support - rather than having him thoughtlessly undermined.

(It may also help other people, though obviously it isn't the reason you need to do it.)

And of course it is essential that he does not continue to feel you are somehow implicated/responsible for his issues and his actions.

This could well be where support will come in for both of you, to get that and keep that clear in both your minds.

Oh, and really well done to him for accepting there isan issue and you for finding a way to help him see it

I'm glad you have had a reasonably honest conversation with your DH but agree with others that covering up the situation is not healthy, and I do understand you're not ready to go there yet, but please understand that people saying this to you are absolutely coming from a place of encouragement.

You need support yourself, this is a huge thing to be going through. Your husband needs support too, hopefully he will go to AA as it is a very big ask for you to be the only support. I watched my parents pretend the elephant in the room wasn't there and for years there was a see-saw of drinking/not drinking and keeping it quiet. It had a hugely damaging effect on my childhood. Eventually my father went to AA and it helped him a lot to have a support network and an alcohol-free way of socialising with people who wouldn't lead him to temptation.

When he did admit to people that he had a problem, it wasn't actually a surprise to anyone, just they were too polite to raise the subject before. The fact that my narc "mother" always pretended our life was perfect wouldn't have helped, people would have been afraid to approach her about this. You will likely find when you talk to people (and initially I'd suggest just a few trusted people) that they have suspected a problem but not said anything.

Alcoholism is known as the Family Disease, so everyone affected needs care and support.

You may find this article on Secret Keeping in Addition somewhat illuminating https://crossroadsrecovery.co.za/the-dangers-of-secret-keeping-in-addiction/

Just came back to say about the secrecy thing. I know it's a huge thing to get your head around but my comments were coming from a place of kindness and encouragement.

I have lived this as a child, the feelings of shame are all there. My mum and dad tried to keep his drinking a secret. It isn't healthy.

The pp has put it far better than me. I know it's early days op, but really secrecy is a massive barrier to overcoming this. Don't enable it.

My comments about reconsidering kerping this a secret were meant kindly too and of course you need to pilot your own course in your own time. I’m pleased you have already considered who you may take into your confidence when you are ready.

I haven’t had to deal with alcoholism but did keep my ExHs abuse of me and his affairs secret and found the pressure from living a lie about our ‘perfect marriage’ at times intolerable. When I finally found the courage to end the marriage so many people in my family refused to believe me and I felt very alone. I truly regret covering up for him all those years (as well as trying mend an irreparable marriage).