I give my DH the ick

[200miles]

Two young kids (pre school). Both me and DH work full time.

Pretty happy and settled. DH is very good with the kids. So hands on (rubbish at admin etc but v present and always playing).

But he's a grumpy git. Just like my dad is. And the grumpiness is almost entirely towards me. Nothing major, I'm not scared of him. But he just acts like he's got the ick around me. For example if he notices I'm on my period (tampax box out in the loo) he might grimace. We were just away and he made a comment about how big my bikini bottoms were, always "joking" but I'm not an idiot...I'm late 30s, size 12, and admittedly don't make a huge amount of effort with my looks at home. But also he often doesn't respond to what I'm saying and if I pick him on it he will say "don't know what you want me to say". He talks to me about practical stuff like the price of petrol or the bins but often seems totally bored by anything else I have to contribute. He doesn't kiss me and sex is very infrequent and brief. I see him roll his eyes a lot. He is also worse when we are out. He does have days of being fine with me and we get on but I just feel he doesn't like me that much anymore.

I have tried talking to him and he makes a joke. If I push it he will call me sensitive or I'm being mad. If I keep pushing it he can get v angry "get over yourself" "you're talking absolute shit" etc.

We both earn similar amounts and work similar jobs. I really don't know if I can stand shared custody and losing my home. The kids really are v happy as we rarely argue and we are both happy and present with them. But there is such a sadness in me.

I'm considering staying but just building a thicker skin and finding my fun elsewhere. Not an affair but just increasing my social life and hobbies now my kids are getting closer to school age.

Can that ever work as a strategy?

OP- it sounds like you are scared of him. You keep saying you arent like some kind of comfort mantra but we can see fear is definitely there. Leave. You deserve so much more than this x

@Endoftheroad12345 I'm so sorry that happened, it sounds like you're still with him now? You deserve so much better than living with someone so awful so do your kids, whatever your parents or social circle might think xxx

Oh sorry just re checked and seen you've escaped - congratulations:-) xxxx

Yes I am out @Unexpectedlysinglemum

I had to rent a property, furnish it single handedly, agree to nesting (but still do most of the childcare and all of the grocery shopping) and find my ex H a divorce lawyer - but I am out! Sadly it will take another 1.5 years to get divorced due to annoying divorce laws in this (non UK) country.

This kind of behaviour eats away at your self esteem over time until you feel that you are not worth caring about and there is something wrong with you. I had the same treatment from my ex husband.

I agree.
If you can't believe that you deserve better. Imagine your best friend or daughter being treated like this and what you'd advise them? Then try to show yourself the same compassion x

Just to add reason why staying for the kids is not a good idea. I know two families, lovely women with gits for husbands, one divorced one not - both with grown up sons. The sons have a tendency to be generally disrespectful of their mothers, because this is what they have been taught. It's really sad to see.

@Almahart including the son whose parents got divorced? I worry a lot about that as my DC are boys.

’I really don't know if I can stand shared custody and losing my home.’

You can stand it. You will amaze yourself.

Leave him.

OP, have you made any movement in finding a therapist? That is stage one. It's something that you can do now, for yourself, without need to discuss with your husband. It will bring you support and strength, making you better placed to take considered decisions about your future.

Where is the Fuckwit Factory with the conveyor belt churning out these men?

It is narcissism and I don't think society yet understands the cause. It is now thought that genetics play a part as well as nurture. It's why breaking the cycle by leaving is important.

My son would have learnt that it was acceptable to treat his mother and then wife as his Dad did. I left when it was obvious that Ex was trying to use my son to gang up against me...literally training him to treat me with contempt. I have a fantastic relationship with the children and they tolerate and are polite to their Dad but there is no genuine connection.

I completely concur with those that say plan ahead. I assumed Ex hated me so would want me gone but that's not the case. He was enraged I chose to leave so I had to be punished financially and with child contact.

However a really good solicitor who has dealt with similar characters can help plus these men will never be alone so they usually find someone else very quickly. Invariably that means they will lose interest in the children but flit in/out when it suits them.

The journey to leaving isn't easy but it is very doable.

You are right @Livinghappy

my ex He’s parents had a toxic marriage and a bitter divorce. His mother couldn’t stand to be in the same room as his father even for few and far between family occasions like weddings and christenings. She is the most extreme narcissist I’ve ever seen - absolutely zero empathy, no accountability and really spiteful and mean. Ex H can do no wrong but he and his sister are aware of how awful she is but never pulled her up on it, they all try to “manage” her. The sister lives in the other side of the world, I’m sure in part to get away from her. Ex H’s father is incredibly pompous and arrogant/insecure - narcissistic tendencies there but not as mean as ex MIL.

External validation, markers of success, career success, being seen to be the most intelligent person in the room is deeply important to all of them I now realise - which is why my career success and intelligence appealed to exH as it made him look good, but why it also enraged him (as I didn’t play second fiddle to him/my career inconvenienced him).

My family absolutely have their own dysfunctions - both my parents are very emotionally immature (so I learnt not to rely on them emotionally) and people pleasers (so no healthy boundary setting). It made me a perfect target for my exH, especially as we met when I was 20.

All a very long winded way of saying get therapy if you can @200miles , I thought for so long I’d escaped my chaotic and dysfunctional (but loving) childhood with no ill effects!

Also to your point above - I left for the kids. My DS is 8 and such a sweet, kind hearted boy. He was and is very upset by the split (not as bad as I’d thought though) but the thought of him replicating our marriage dynamic horrified me. I could also see a time when H’s moods and rages would be targeted at DS as a stroppy teen (instead of at me) and by staying I would have been equally culpable.

They divorced when the kids were grown up. So no, I wouldn't include them

If you're not together they can't see the constant undermining, nasty comments etc. And what is just as damaging imo as hearing those comments, is seeing a mother take them and live with that hurt.

I'm making a pigs ear of this. I mean had they divorced when the children were younger it's probably, in my opinion, that the boys wouldn't be so horrible to her now. They learned it from years of seeing their father's behaviour.

@200miles I know you worry about the influence he'll have on the kids if you split but look at what they're seeing now.
Ok it might not be awful everyday but there's a lack of respect every day. Even in pregnancy he belittled you and tried to make you feel pathetic and weak.

Be in no doubt that he is trying to tear you down. Don't let him do that to you and definitely don't let your children see it.

Apart you have the chance to model kind and loving behaviour that mitigates for their dad being such a horrible shit.

Get out and start living your life without all that negging.

My day one of self-care hasn't gone very well. I've drunk a third of a bottle of wine and the house is a state. And I spent £50 on a bag I don't need. DH is working late but has been messaging me today (unusual, he usually never replies to messages and only gives one word answers). Going to start looking at the money side of things tomorrow.

I've found a therapist and got a session booked for next week. I'm hoping that will help. I've never seen one before. I'm hoping to find out what's going on. All relationships are similar. My partners have always been quite obsessed but also don't like me v much if that's make any sense. Same with DH. He does not want to break up, talks about never wanting anyone else, hed never be with anyone else again, etc but day to day he acts like shit on his shoe sometimes. I've never been dumped and partners have always gone crazy when i leave them but I don't know why as they act like they hate me! So confusing.

I know if I spend the next 6/12 months focusing on myself and then leave home he will say that I think I'm too good for him.

So what? I expect you are too good for him. He sounds like a nasty, mean-spirited little shit. So what if he's nice sometimes? I expect he acts nice when you are behaving like he wants you to and not making a fuss about anything. That's not actually real niceness, it's manipulation. He's trying to make you into a nice, docile woman, and he's gaslighting you into thinking you're the problem. Don't let him get away with it!

Yeah you're all right. I know you're all talking so much sense. This perpetual hope that it will get better is bloody exhausting. When he's nice and attentive for a couple of days and then wakes up and barely looks at me for some unknown reason - the only constant is being disappointed. Also it takes up so much of my brain. Nearly all my energy and thoughts is deliberating over what to do, when to do it, how to manage it, and sometimes I feel so adamant and the other times I'm telling myself off for being so ridiculous even considering leaving. It all feels so heavy on me. And hiding that heaviness for everyone in my life.

'And hiding that heaviness for everyone in my life.'

I found it very difficult to make and maintain truly authentic friendships while I was married. I remember reading a poem about a dead relationship, which described it as dragging around the rotten carcass of a vulture. It felt like that. I felt awful to be inflicting my big fat lie on people.

My life has blossomed in so many ways since my marriage ended and the greatest thing for me is that I have really proper friendships again, my old friends always stuck with me, but I now also have some new really good friends.

That’s a good first step, OP.

I think kindness is one of the most important character traits there is. Especially in a life partner. Your husband doesn’t sound very kind at all. What would you think of a friend who treated you the way he does?

OP, would it help to talk to someone about all this such as a friend or your mum if you are close? It sounds as if you are exhausting yourself trying to pretend everything is ok.

@200miles one of the hardest things for me was the memories of lovely holidays we’d had together as a family (all organised by me of course) - we both loved travelling and generally enjoyed ourselves. But then. I realised - most people will be nice/happy when they are lying on a lounger on the Amalfi coast or in a five star hotel in Singapore! It’s how you treat people in the day to day humdrum/stress of real life that counts, and he treated me either like shit or with indifference (the ignoring texts thing! except when he was continuing an argument where I would get a barrage of long messages about how shit I was.)

Even during lovely holidays though I had to manage his temper - last year he screamed at me that our charming little boutique hotel a block from the eiffel tower was a “shithole” (he’d had a drink and wanted a balcony to have a cigarette on), lunch at a lovely little seaside restaurant in Positano was ruined by him glowering at me because the service was a bit random (my fault of course 🤪)

I’ve since realised after reading something posted here that I can recreate all the good bits with my kids, I planned all the travel, luckily I have enough money to do so (on a slightly more subdued scale) - and in fact those holidays will be better bc I won’t have to deal with him throwing tantrums and getting moody over random shit.

He isn't good enough for you.

You ARE too good for him.

He's not a nice good person.
He's a damaged unhappy person who chooses to bully, denigrate and treat you badly.

This is all on him.
His behaviour.
His choices.

You cannot fix him.

That is why you need to forget this endlessly bending yourself out of shape trying to figure him out.

Your marriage is over.

Now, going forward, is about getting you in the best shape for the future you and your children deserve.

Honestly, if you withdraw and stop engaging with him I would expect that he will improve his behaviour as he tries to figure out whatvis going on.

Tell him NOTHING.
Admit NOTHING.

Because you owe him NOTHING.

Well done for organising therapy.

Don't worry about the house.
Simplify things with the children during this period.

Don't worry about holidays and days out.

Keep it simple.
Stuff you can do easily, relatively stress free.

Don't pressure him to join you.
Just disengage.

Don't remark on his moods or grumpiness.

Just completely ignore and disengage.

A your energy going forward is for yourself.

Tell friends/family the truth.
It will be a huge relief to tell those that really care the truth.

No more protecting him.

It only wastes energy that you need for you.

You can do this.

He's in a mood this morning again. Someone said in the thread I spund like I might be being a martyr & maybe I am?

Last night for example...

Younger DS crying at 1am. I have a presentation at 10am today.

I wake up. DH doesn't. I try to wake DH to ask him to deal with it. He just grunts.

I tend to DS. Crying and restless for 40 mins, lots of me patting him bum and singing to him. Get him to sleep. I go back to bed.

10 min later DS is up again. I wake DH "please deal with it. Such a big day at work tomorrow"

DH gets up and goes into DS room. DS screams "mummy mumma". DH doesn't try and comes straight back to our bedroom in a mood "fucks sake kid just screams at me. You need to sort it"

I get up. DS in a right state. 30 mins later I bring DS into our bed as last resort. Squeeze with all 3 of us. DH gets up and says "I suppose you want me to leave my own bed now" stomps out

The thing is we have a lovely spare room with a made up double bed in the quietest bit of the house. He stomps off there. I wake him this morning before I leave for work as older DS is up. He is in a right grump again and barely acknowledges me.

I'm still focusing on myself and following the advice but the comments on here and from DH about me being a martyr I can't shake - scenarios like the one above happen all the time. I feel like I'm doing all the work yet somehow he's pissed off. He thinks I've chucked him out his bed but to my mind the bloke on annual leave with nothing to do today got 8 hours sleep while the woman working all day got 5!

Pls tell me where I'm going wrong?? How you would have responded differently? This is not to save my relationship, I know its days are numbered, but I often feel like this in relationships - I'm trying hardest but can't get it right. It must be me to some extent.

Any advice?