Friend is hysterical over my holiday

[llamadrama7]

I have a friend who I meet for lunch a couple of times a week, and we speak on the phone regularly. He is retired and doesn't seem to do much in his days as his wife still works, so the time with me seems to be quite exciting for him.

I enjoy the time and our friendship, but in a few weeks I have the chance to go on holiday for a week elsewhere in the UK with a family member while I have annual leave. I haven't been away in 8 years so I would like to go. I told him and he was hysterical, as he wanted me to go out with him on days out on my annual leave. He said that over this time his wife is away so he could have taken me on longer days out and I've now ruined it.

I feel it's my fault as on my annual leave days in the past we would often go out together (to gardens, historical places etc).

He sent about a hundred messages saying he is in tears, I have ruined the friendship and he doesn't want us to be friends anymore. He insulted my family member too and he said he will be sick all week worried about me.

Not sure how to handle this as I do value the friendship but I don't want him to have a meltdown over it.

Yes, it's tiresome. We've also had the "does he have dementia?" question too. I haven't seen depression or ADHD mentioned yet, but perhaps I have missed it in the 14 pages of thread so far.
Maybe he is autistic. Maybe he does have dementia.
But, this does not mean that the OP has to put up with this behaviour at all.
She is not:
a) his doctor
b) his psychiatrist/psychologist
c) his therapist
d) his wife

Far too many women have some kind of "fixing" complex (I used to be like this and have worked hard to address it) where we want to help someone, to "fix" them, to "heal" them. We fall for sob stories of how bad their upbringing was etcetc. We think if we care for them enough we can make them better.
Nope, it doesn't work like that. We are the ones who end up in a mess and at the mercy of someone who might not be neurodiverse or mentally/physically unwell but is just a controlling, manipulative asshole.

I think quite a number of men in the same age group as the OP's male friend are like this. Seem to enjoy chatting away to other women, and the younger the better. If they can get into close friendships with other women - preferably younger, even better. Gives their self esteem a boost and makes them feel they're still attractive, and they've still 'got it.'

The reality is that they are embarrassing themselves, looking quite creepy and desperate, and hugely disrespecting their wives. As has been said by a few posters, MOST men like this are not interested in being 'just friends' with an attractive younger woman. They want something more...

Whilst it starts off as an innocent friendship, it often gravitates to something more (in HIS head!) These men still see themselves as an attractive and charming man who this younger woman clearly fancies, or she wouldn't be showing an interest in him WOULD she?

This kind of man will be friendly and chummy and charming to his young female friend, but will turn nasty when he crosses the line, and she backs away and rejects him. Like a pp, I also struggle to fathom how the OP, or ANYone can believe these men are just wanting 'a friendship...'

How would these men feel if their wife acted the same with younger men? Made an attractive younger man her friend, regularly went out socialising with him (one-to-one,) and went batshit when he went away for a week and she couldn't see him. Fucking hell. Like I said, his poor wife! Has anyone thought about how SHE feels in all of this @llamadrama7 If this was my DH behaving like this man, I wouldn't stay with him. This man clearly fancies you.

He doesn't see you as a real, independent person. He sees you as his possession. Akin to a pet who must be kept on a lead, and who cannot be trusted to look after themselves.

This situation is unhealthy for both of you. You should send one message saying you don't want to hear from him again, then block him.

As an aside, are you neurodivergent?

Not sure why you're reacting so strongly to a simple question.

From a diagnostic perspective, there are several features here that could potentially point towards ASD traits. I'm certainly not someone who goes around threads thinking every random man who does something odd or annoying must be autistic.

While not excusing his behaviour and certainly placing no expectations on OP to do anything about it, it could help explain parts of it. Sometimes people find it helpful to be able to understand why someone has acted inappropriately. As I went on to say, I'd be letting that friendship cool off if I were in OP's situation, so it's not like I'm saying "be kind" or advising to let him get away with an inappropriate reaction.

Looking at your responses, you seem to have got distracted by all the suggestions that he sees your friendship as a romantic relationship. But in a way, that's neither here nor there, because whether he fancies you or not, his reaction to you going on holiday IS STILL FUCKING INSANE. It would be a deranged response if you were having an affair, and it's an equally deranged response from someone who is just a friend.

I am really struggling to understand how you could possibly have been meeting up with this man all this time without ever picking up that the dynamic here is incredibly weird, but there's no excuse now because he's now made it abundantly clear that this friendship is incredibly unhealthy. The fact that you think you can recover a normal friendship after this insane behaviour for him is really worrying. Can you really, truly not see that you need to run a mile from this man? Are boundaries something you typically struggle with?

Was he always like this? It does sound a bit like dementia...

He sent about a hundred messages saying he is in tears, I have ruined the friendship and he doesn't want us to be friends anymore.
Oh gosh thank goodness for that! What a nut job.

I really feel your situation, OP, I'd be like you and feeling emotionally responsible for him too. Can you talk to his wife about your concerns? It sounds like he really needs a MH assessment.

so funny that PPs are accusing you of sneakily enjoying the attention/emotional affair!!!!! 😵‍💫

“But in a way, that's neither here nor there, because whether he fancies you or not, his reaction to you going on holiday IS STILL FUCKING INSANE. It would be a deranged response if you were having an affair, and it's an equally deranged response from someone who is just a friend.”

Exactly.

Get this creepy fucker told. He loves how he unsettles you, he's getting off on it.

"Listen Steve you fucking creep. You're bang out of order and bordering on harassment. Find some other dickhead to bully because I've had enough. I told you you were making me uncomfortable and you ignored me. You've overstepped the mark one too many times. Please don't contact me again"

And block.

It doesn't actually matter whether he has borderline personality disorder, whether he is autistic, whether he has dementia or anything else. The fact is that, whatever the reason for it, his behaviour is unacceptable and harmful and the OP should not be putting up with it.

What is it with these older men's loneliness only being cured by the company of much younger women? Their loneliness can never be cured by the company of other men or similarly aged women can it!

Absolutely this.

As I've read your posts OP it's become more and more wtaf. This man obviously has a lot of problems and possibly early dementia. This is NOT your problem and I would step away and block yesterday.
His wife possibly sees you like a 'carer' for him whilst she is working and that's why she seems to accept the situation.
You are not responsible for his welfare and mental well being, it's on him if he self harms not you and you should not feel guilty. There is no reason to.

What an OTT response from him
A friend would be happy for you 8 years since you had a holiday
From his reaction I think he has deeper feelings than friendship
It's possessive and manipulative
He should be thinking about holidaying with his wife
He has done you a favour by ending this friendship Stand firm if he tries to contact you. Even lunch 2x weekly was too much

Not only is this massively inappropriate but it's clear he has some kind of personality disorder and you seem to be in the frame for it.

Get away from this man who will certainly get far worse and has some worrying and obsessive traits. And once you've done that, have a good think about why you did not notice or chose to ignore signs that would indicate he is problematic,

I completely agree with the poster who said it's irrelevant whether he fancies you or not. If a female friend behaved like this it would be absolutely insane - It's mad behaviour from anyone whether they're male, female, friend or lover.
What annoys me just as much as his insane behaviour is YOU PUTTING UP WITH IT!! Why are you in this situation in the first place? Why are you blaming yourself. I don't mean to sound harsh but end the friendship and pull yoursekf together!

Yet he has absolutely no compunction about upsetting you.

I appreciate it's difficult to view this objectively (and I've been in the same situation as you, with a former lecturer and 'friend' almost three decades my senior. We don't want to believe a long-standing friend could possibly be making overtures to us). But it shouldn't take an objective view to see that controlling, manipulative behaviour like this is a problem even within intimate relationships, let alone from a 'friend'. FGS, who on earth does he think he is?

The relationship might well have been non-sexual, non-aspirational-toward-sexual, and even a pleasant convenience to you from your side. It might even have been an antidote for loneliness, and from that perspective its appeal is understandable.

From his side it very obviously isn't. You're being extremely naive, I'm afraid.

Not your problem. This is bizarre beyond measure and you can’t see it because you’re in the middle of it, as you said yourself. So we are telling you - it’s off.

He sounds like my FIL who is toxic (and younger than this guy - just to demonstrate how wide this age gap is! I’m early 30s too.)

It sounds like you are concerned for his health too? This is the wife’s role. Do you have a way to contact her? You tell her what you’ve observed and let her deal with it. Alternatively you could log a concern with social services if you think he may be having a a breakdown or a health issue that makes his behaviour erratic. You still need to remove him from your life first though. He is obsessing over you. You protect yourself first.

Op ......

Seriously.

What have you been thinking.

These things, plus the hysteria (previous to this current episode) you mentioned, plus the fact that true friendships between young women and married men decades older rarely exist .....

I don't understand why you've been seeing him on his way own at all, let alone regularly.

You need to build up your social life and hobbies and leave socialising with & supporting older men who are not even related to you, to their wives, relatives and peers.

*From a diagnostic perspective, there are several features here that could potentially point towards ASD traits".

Also from a "diagnostic perspective" 🤔 there are several features that scream "perv" traits

*on his own

I’d hazard a guess that at some point in the past… someone who knows the OP has started a thread on mumsnet about the OP and some bizarre situation

You should have exited this "friendship" long before now....but this, this is your absolute gtfo indicator.

Get out of it and try to meet new people, preferably around your own age.

What on earth are you doing hanging out with batshit old blokes?
(Who are also extremely controlling btw).

@llamadrama7

Get away from this man who will certainly get far worse and has some worrying and obsessive traits. And once you've done that, have a good think about why you did not notice or chose to ignore signs that would indicate he is problematic,

I totally agree with this poster. ⬆️

You are so entangled in this negative relationship with this clingy, manipulative man, to your own detriment. What happiness does he bring into your life - it seems you are mainly agreeing to see him because he's using emotional blackmail to get what he wants from you, and you don't seem to know how to build or keep healthy boundaries to keep yourself emotionally safe.

Perhaps you should consider booking yourself regularly short trips away from your home (don't discuss with him first), say you can't stop for lunch as work has become really busy and also, as a final resort, see if you can't move a good distance from him (don't give him your real/new address) and block him from your phone, email, all social media.

Someone who behaves hysterically to you when you try to apply even the smallest boundaries is not good for your own mental health. Take care of you first and step right away. 🌹

Girl, surely you have other friendship options than a creepy, obsessive old married man who wears mismatched shoes and dribbles tea down himself?!

And you feel guilty about not spending all your AL on this man who is clearly chasing after you?! 🙄

I am part of a social group which is mostly women of all ages, though a few men. A much older man in his 60s suddenly joined. Almost the first thing he did is message all the young women with inappropriate messages and moaning about how lonely he was. That is what men do. They were all way too nice and indulged him, because that is what young women often do. I reported it to the mod and she blocked him straightaway with no back and forth, or trying to understand him, or whatever.... Women don't have to fix men.