Should I tell daughter about her abusive dad?

[21seconds12]

I’m in two minds what to do about this. Daughter who is 8 has started seeing her dad after court ordered no contact due to abuse and having to complete courses.

He has moved on and has another relationship and a baby very quickly. Daughter says and it appears he’s a changed man and not treating his partner how he did me. To be honest I don’t care, I’m just happy to no longer be with him.

What is getting me is he is behaving like Disney dad on steroids. When we were together he did nothing with our daughter. He has had a personality replacement. The thing is he is re-writing history. He is telling our daughter lies about our relationship. He was extremely cruel and abusive towards me (and every women before me). Instead of being truthful he is literally making it all up. Do I tell her the truth in an age appropriate way? He is so Disney that he looks like an angel and his girlfriend is also doing a lot for him. He tells her it was me who stopped him seeing her when it was a court, he says to her how he is a hero and he fought so hard. The truth was he drank and smoked drugs and had to pass tests. If he is a changed person then that’s really great for her going forward. But why lie about the past and make me out to be to blame? He was so so cruel. Why not be honest and say I was cruel but I’ve done a lot of soul searching etc…. Or is he still abusing me as he knows she will come home and tell me his lies. It’s like that decade just didn’t happen to him, he was awful and aggressive, threw things at me, threatened me. I ended up with life long health issues from the stress and the fear.

Or do I say nothing and let her think her dad is everything he says he is, but then he is blaming me and lying and looking like a hero???

I will try my hardest to brush it off and make him unimportant.

Do you think they lie intentionally or they are completely convinced they are victim? He is very believable. The only time I saw through it was when he was fired for intimidating a young girl and he said she deserved it because she was too young to tell him what to do. No one deserved to be made scared.

You’ve all probably gone now. But I’ve done some reading on narcissism and I’ve been an idiot. Even when I’m trying to tell the truth I’m giving him my energy. I bet he knows that I’m upset so I’m talking to our daughter. I’m just giving him more supply.

Yep.
Thats exactly it!!

Thats why you need to balance giving him and what he says too much airtime. And the need for your dd to know about what has happened.

Good luck!

Do you think they lie intentionally or they are completely convinced they are victim? He is very believable.

It’s hard to say. I think they largely do convince themselves of their own stories but also have a nagging doubt in the back of their minds that makes them
speak extra confidently or vehemently as though that will erase all doubt.

I know that when I’m absolutely certain about something and someone disagrees with me, I don’t tend to feel the need to defend what I’m saying or get worked up about it. Like “Okay, well, think what you like then.” Whereas a narcissist can’t stand for you to disagree with their version of events and will get angry and upset if you do.

For me, it’s become a “tell” with my ex; whenever he’s vigorously insisting something did or didn’t happen or I “need” to do something or I’m “always” some way or another (controlling, uncooperative, etc) there’s definitely some kind of bullshit and delusional thinking going on underneath.

I think I’ve just realised you can’t “win” against a narcissist. They can spin any side of any story. It’s a long game. I mean he’s been waiting for years to get contact and he hasn’t forgotten or just been able to let it go. I will step back and stop engaging because it’s effecting my mood. I’ve also asked my partner to supervise his med week video calls as I no longer want to hear what’s being said. I though if I could counter what was said I could do something but I can’t so will have to just let it play out. I left to get away from that life, I forget sometimes.

Even when I’m trying to tell the truth I’m giving him my energy. I bet he knows that I’m upset so I’m talking to our daughter. I’m just giving him more supply.

Exactly right. It’s a waste of breath to argue with them. They are not going to have a moment of self-awareness and recognise their own bullshit. Maybe they know but won’t admit it, maybe they suspect but won’t admit it, and maybe they are genuinely incapable of stepping outside the story they’ve made up in their head. Whatever it is, the result is the same: no satisfaction for you.

With narcissists, you have to be the one to change; to learn to shrug and say “Okay well that’s not how I see it and the law sees it but you’re free to think what you like”; to learn that all he’s doing is trying to get your attention and emotional energy, positive or negative, it’s all the same to him. Everything he says that makes you want to bite back or argue or protest is bait to see if he has the power to affect your emotions.

You get your power back when you take it back, and stop letting him get a reaction out of you. That doesn’t happen instantly; it’s a process. First you learn to see the bait after you’ve grabbed it. Then you learn to see the bait before you take it. You will still want to take the bait, but you stop yourself and walk away. Eventually you will see the bait and not even want to take it.

Her dad has told her that she has one dad and mustn’t listen to any other man. one dad one hero all the time. She says I don’t like “kevin” because dad can be my only hero.

So you just say, “Oh! Is that what your dad thinks? I don’t think the same. I think you can and should have lots of heroes and listen to lots of people. I mean, I think of [name one man who’s heroic] because he [name reasons] and [other man] because he [other reasons]. And to me, Kevin is heroic in the way that he looks after you every day, even while Daddy was away. I know he doesn’t feel any differently towards you now that you have Daddy too.”

Over time your daughter will naturally come to see that your way of thinking is relaxed and feels good and welcoming and Daddy’s is rigid and feels bad and controlling.

@CheekyHobson a lot of work needs to go back into that relationship. They got on so well and over the past 7 months it’s deteriorated so much. She is awful to him, tells him repeatedly he shouldn’t be living with us, he’s not part of the family. She has a little half sister so he’s very much a part. I’ve not said anything about the other lady, our daughter says nothing but nice things above her because I’ve said we need to be nice. She is taking care of our daughter and she looks to be doing a good job so I’ve no need.

I always liken your ex ti this:

When you are wrestling a pig in mud ....,at some point you realise the pig is actually enjoying it.

Op I think the Penny has finally dropped
Well done
It will take time but you know now you are the right path.

The school has said again today that she dropped off in tears. Every Monday is the same when he drops off. Same happens when he brings her back, they both clinging on and crying. Is it worth me sending a msg to ask him to keep handovers as light and breezy as possible as it’s not fair on her to be so emotional?

Get family therapist involved
Your ex is not going to listen to you
You know that
Ask school to refer if is impacting schootalk to them

Get outside professionals involved instead of trying to fix this yourself.

I have another question. He asked for and it’s not the court order he has half the holidays. He takes about a quarter and says the rest he can’t take off work. Some people have said I should enforce is as currently he just gets the good times and doesn’t have to work about work and children etc. Part of me just things the less she with him the better, but then he getting what he wants, which I can’t actually enforce anyway. What would you do? Same as supposed to pick up fri from school but comes Saturday morning as said can’t pick up due to work.

Is it worth me sending a msg to ask him to keep handovers as light and breezy as possible as it’s not fair on her to be so emotional?

No do not raise this with him, it will only encourage him to maintain it or else escalate it further. If you say anything he will twist it all around on your with some complete batshit response.

As much as is humanly possible never give him approval or disapproval, show emotion etc. Easier said than done I know.

Me personally I would not force him to take her. The less exposure to him the better tbh. Don’t let him think you are happy to facilitate either though.
Keep a record of each time he doesn’t take her when he is supposed to in case you need to in future.

Keep a record of times he doesn't show or let's you down - you won't remember dates and times and it'll come in handy for court if you need it.

Well done for looking at the narcissist stuff. You'll never be the same again once you've seen what you're dealing with. You can't un-see it!

@BePatient ive always thought something wasn’t right with him. He was saying the right stuff in court so I thought perhaps he’d changed, but he hasn’t. Every time he’s in my life it gets toxic. I’ve been so confused about how on the outside his life looks amazing and he’s had a personality transplant but he’s just created another weird act. I’m not going to lie for a while I thought oh god it was me who was the problem, it must have been as look at him now. But now I no. I’ll leave him to it

She came home from contact yesterday. She has cried and been miserable at school. She has been miserable at home. She has refused to speak to my partner and says she hates him. It’s causing such a rift in our house. She says she wants to spend more time at her dads and she doesn’t like it here. I try to ignore it but the atmosphere is terrible. It’s what he asked for though and he can’t even do that properly as he could pick up Friday but says he can’t so comes sat morning. Half of me thinks she’d be better off with him as here she is always unhappy and it’s wrecking all our relationships.

I don’t really understand why she can’t have a relationship and be respectful to all of us. She is nice to his partner so what is going on? She used to get on so well with mine and it’s absolutely destroyed now.

She is so young OP and none of what is happening fully makes sense to her. From what you have said she has to be happy there all the time. She can’t act out at her dad’s house. At a subconscious level she doesn’t feel safe there so she will do anything she can to keep him happy.
On your side something like play or art therapy might be useful for her.
This is a phase a very difficult phase but a phase all the same. Personally I would discuss her dad as little as possible with her right now unless she brings it up. If she says she hates your home don’t rise to it. She is pushing your buttons to test boundaries. If she is mean to your partner you have to pull her up on it in a firm way, but she needs lots of reassurance that you love her no matter what.

She just keeps asking to spend more time with her dad. But he can’t do more time. She is angry that she is at mine more and wants it more equal. There is nothing I can do about that though. She genuinely loves the attention she gets their. I can’t compete with it or want to go down that road. It doesn’t mean she has to be so rude to the people in her life here. I just want her to be happy here and happy their and appreciate we are different but she can love us all.

OP your Ex is filling her head with all sorts of rubbish. The majority of it you don’t know about. She won’t be happier there especially long term.
You can’t compete with the Disney dad routine, but he can’t keep that going forever. She will eventually see his true colours and will need you to be there for her.

For a long time I thought I was okay after relationship with my Ex and worked hard to manage things to keep him at arms length. Unfortunately he took me to court when DC decided he wasn’t bothered with him. I realised then that I definitely wasn’t okay and am more likely to get triggered by his BS. Those stress hormones are back up and I am at times having to remind myself that I am safe. Sometimes I want to just tell him that he is a complete dickhead, but I can’t because it will feed into his victim narrative that he has going for himself. You need to look after your own mental health right now. Whatever works for you do it because otherwise you will be stuck in that fight or flight mode you once lived in.

Just keep remembering that she is just a little girl. Think back to how you felt as a grown woman during your relationship with him - confused, stressed, anxious, upset - and remember that she's also getting the same mixed messages; lovebombing and restrictive rules, her dad being melodramatic, him trying to turn her against her mum who she loves and her mum's partner who she loves too.

She feels torn, she doesn't know how to navigate her feelings, she's letting out the anger in a place where she feels safe, rather than at her dad's where she knows she has to be happy (probably because there are times when she's not and he's nasty about it).

She has to have one safe place to be. Just keep telling her you love her, your partner loves her, keep validating her feelings ("I know you want to be at daddy's house the same amount as at mummy's, and it's frustrating that you can't be.") When she's worked up, give her hugs, help her self-regulate, keep making suggestions for fun things to do. Joke around if you can, it always helps with kids.

I’m worried about the way she forms relationships. At school she can only have one friend and that relationship will be very intense. If there is more then one friend she will be unkind to the other. We have had a lot of calls because she has been unkind to a particular girl. When I lived with my mum after leaving my ex she was the same. She was nice to me but awful to my mum. Since moving in with partner she is nice again to my mum but terrible to my partner. I can’t see to get her to see she can have many relationships. She can love her dad and love me, she doesn’t need to pick a side.

I can’t help but feel to blame, I must have not done something right. I was a mess when I left, perhaps I’ve damaged her.