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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Should I tell daughter about her abusive dad?

234 replies

21seconds12 · 22/06/2023 07:40

I’m in two minds what to do about this. Daughter who is 8 has started seeing her dad after court ordered no contact due to abuse and having to complete courses.

He has moved on and has another relationship and a baby very quickly. Daughter says and it appears he’s a changed man and not treating his partner how he did me. To be honest I don’t care, I’m just happy to no longer be with him.

What is getting me is he is behaving like Disney dad on steroids. When we were together he did nothing with our daughter. He has had a personality replacement. The thing is he is re-writing history. He is telling our daughter lies about our relationship. He was extremely cruel and abusive towards me (and every women before me). Instead of being truthful he is literally making it all up. Do I tell her the truth in an age appropriate way? He is so Disney that he looks like an angel and his girlfriend is also doing a lot for him. He tells her it was me who stopped him seeing her when it was a court, he says to her how he is a hero and he fought so hard. The truth was he drank and smoked drugs and had to pass tests. If he is a changed person then that’s really great for her going forward. But why lie about the past and make me out to be to blame? He was so so cruel. Why not be honest and say I was cruel but I’ve done a lot of soul searching etc…. Or is he still abusing me as he knows she will come home and tell me his lies. It’s like that decade just didn’t happen to him, he was awful and aggressive, threw things at me, threatened me. I ended up with life long health issues from the stress and the fear.

Or do I say nothing and let her think her dad is everything he says he is, but then he is blaming me and lying and looking like a hero???

OP posts:
Gingergirl70 · 23/06/2023 13:39

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 13:28

Have many of you actually bean through the family court process, do you know what it is like to be in it for years and years. There is no support whatsoever, I’ve begged for help and no one cares. It is the father who needs to stop.

Do you honestly think you're the only person on here who has been through or has experience of family court, abuse, cafcass, why parenting courses are ordered etc?

Apart from cafcass and SS, how else have you tried to get your DD some therapy? Tried your GP? Referral to a child psychologist?

Gingergirl70 · 23/06/2023 13:42

His girlfriend is much younger then him by about 15 years and they had a baby in a year. She probably has absolutely no idea. I believed him also when I met him, he plays a good sad person.

His new girlfriend nows his truth. He was damaged by his ex who stopped contact to be nasty. She has supported him through it. Court asked him to send our daughter cards. She made all the cards. What on earth do you think will happen if I go talk to her….?

Can you not see how these two different comments don't compute?

Original poster
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 13:43

@Gingergirl70 if you did you’d know that many abuse victims are ordered to attend parenting classes. Yes I’ve been to the gp and have to wait and she has help at school.

OP posts:
Original poster
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 13:45

What doesn’t compute. His girlfriend will have not have a clue about how he treated me. Do you think he will tell her the truth. He beat his past girlfriends, he has records in his home country. He has told her what he has told everyone else.

OP posts:
adriftabroad · 23/06/2023 13:49

Whenwillitallmakesense · 23/06/2023 13:35

Okay, I'm going to drop out of this thread. It's making me so stressed. I've reported it twice to MNHQ, but they obviously feel differently than I.

OP, your threads are getting contradictory. But if you're now saying new GF knows nothing about his past, although youve said she helped him change, supported him through stuff, then bloody tell her. Get her to do a Clare's law disclosure with police. Do you really feel that just because you weren't made aware of his behaviour, that it's OK not to pass that information on to a young, vulnerable woman with a child? I may be wrong and a lot of people will say its not your responsibility, but I think that's skewed thinking.

I beg you though, get your daughter some proper help. She must be an absolute mess. If you've begged SS and Cafcass, go to your GP, go to a women's aid charity, give your child number to Childline, get a referral to CAMHS. Anything in your power to find someone for her to talk to that isn't you or dad so she can speak freely without fear or upsetting either of you.

And ffs, get some counselling for yourself. With all due respect it, you need it if you are going to be a strong, supportive, rational parent to your poor daughter.

You reported the thread?
OK then...

Original poster
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 14:03

Look I am listening, I really am. It’s been a really difficult 3 years and I want the best for her. I understand I need to keep some generic answers and unfortunately just let him say what he wants to say. It’s a hard pill to swallow.

It’s extremely nasty to come and insinuate somehow that I’m somehow complicit. He was nasty. He pinned me up against the wall when I was pregnant, he threw food at me that he called “student food” as it wasn’t good enough. He told me I was nothing, everything we had was his. I’d had enough after 12 years of marriage. When I said I couldn’t do it anymore he threw me out and told me if I came back he’d do something we’d both regret. Within weeks he was online dating. He lost a job for pinning a young girl left in charge against the wall as he didn’t like her telling him what to do. He tried to break into the place I moved to, there are police records. I’m trying to do my best but that doesn’t mean I can’t do better but it doesn’t mean I deserved or provoked that.

OP posts:
ClawedButler · 23/06/2023 14:40

Bloody hell you're getting a hard time here OP.

FWIW, I think you're doing well, but I also think you need to step back a little. Don't worry about long, detailed explanations - it won't make sense to her, and children are liable to filling in the gaps in their understanding with their own logic and stories to make sense of it all.

Have been close to a similar situation, whereby one parent was totally re-writing history and lying about the present. With lies this big, the truth is bound to come out at some point. It's just not sustainable, keeping track of what lies you've told and keeping up a fever pitch of emotional excitement/drama. She'll see his true colours eventually. In the meantime, all you can really do is keep a note of what's being said, just so you can refer back to it in detail in the future if you need to, trust that the truth will emerge in the future, be as non-committal and grey rock as you can muster, don't engage, don't contradict or question. You can agree with a child that their feelings are complex, or difficult, without going into reasons and wherefores.

I am sorry you're having such a tough time. It sounds really awful. He hasn't changed a bit, has he?

Original poster
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 14:59

There is an innocent little girl caught up in the middle of it and it’s not fair on her at all, I understand, We’ve been living it for years. There appears to be no good outcome. I want the best for her.

OP posts:
Scruffthemagicdragon · 23/06/2023 15:09

Sorry OP, there are no perfect outcomes because of who he is. But I really do think you need to listen to posters saying to keep it as unemotional as possible. Stick with "the court decided..." and reinforce good boundaries and behaviour by giving examples non specific and unrelated to her dad.

He probably wants to draw you into a battle of he did this she did that. I imagine, being a manipulator, that he's very good at those. So don't do it, that's his turf. Take back the control that you can by being neutral. It's your best tool.

Scruffthemagicdragon · 23/06/2023 15:10

I'm not for one second saying that's an easy task though.

AhNowTed · 23/06/2023 18:09

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 12:51

All I get recently is daddy loves me more because he buys me everything and I can do what I want. Daddy cries over me he must love me more. I try very hard to let it go but Im human and yes it hurts. If I say no to her about buying a toy she has said well I will get daddy to come and shout at you. He has told her if anyone is mean to her at school to tell him and he’ll rip there head off….it’s just not fair for her.

OP look I get how hard this must be.

You should not be in competition with the narrative of an idiot ex and his girlfriend.

If no one else is prepared to be an actual parent, this is YOUR JOB.

Stop trying to compete with this headfuck on an innocent child.

It doesn't matter what the fuck he says, or whether its "fair" to you.

Your daughter is 8 and doesn't understand all this.

Be the adult, please.

Idneverlietoyou · 23/06/2023 18:41

When I was in a similar situation I made sure my children knew what there father was like because 1. I wanted them to be able to protect themselves from him (he was very manipulative) 2. So that they didn't think that their fathers behaviour was normal.

  1. So that they didn't blame me for the breakup ( why should I take responsibility for it??)
  2. So he didn't have the power to turn them against me.
Sod not "badmouthing" their dad, I didn't say anything that wasn't true and gave them enough information to make up their own minds but not all the story by any means. If you don't say anything your DD has only his truth to believe. As for the Disney dadding, yes it is annoying but ignore it it never lasts
Original poster
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 19:35

I don’t bad mouth him. Apart from the times she asks me or tells me things he’s said I haven’t mentioned him at all. I have said he wasn’t able to keep her safe and it’s parents jobs to keep children safe. I did say I tried for many months but she wasn’t safe. In the end the house (which was mine) he kicked me out of that took 2 years in court for me to get back he never looked after in those 2 years. It ended up covered in black mould and daughter was eating off the floor when he took her to the house.(I have those photos) At this point he put cctv and an alarm on so I couldn’t get into my own home. The last straw was her ending up in an ambulance as he couldn’t control what she was eating and she has an anaphylactic allergy and he managed to give her it. I was advised to stop contact for her own safety as he was so consumed with hate for me he was neglecting her. All of this has changed since he got a new girlfriend as she is looking after our daughter, I’m grateful for that. The fact that he is painting himself to be the hero is inexcusable really. But yes she is too young to no any of this.

OP posts:
Scruffthemagicdragon · 23/06/2023 22:36

What has that got to do with the question you asked? We all understand that he's not good. Thoroughly manipulative and twisting his relationship with your daughter into a salve for his ego. Utterly uncaring, etc, we get it. I thought we were talking about what you are going to do now. What are you going to do now? He isn't going to make this better. Unfairly, that's all down to you.

Whenwillitallmakesense · 23/06/2023 22:57

Yes @adriftabroad I have reported my concerns that there is a terribly mixed up child out there who obviously is not getting the help she so obviously needs. Is that OK with you? I mean, you said, OK then...so I presume it is OK. Thank you for giving me your blessing

RedHelenB · 23/06/2023 23:12

AhNowTed · 22/06/2023 10:03

You're both putting an awful lot on an 8 year old.

She needs to feel loved and protected and involving her in your tit for tat is wholly wrong.

You can correct her (him) in a vague way and say no it wasn't quite like that.

Honestly be the adult here. Even if he is not.

This. 8 is too young to burden her with adult problems. Presumably none of the abuse happened to her or in her presence? If that's not the case then fair enough to refer back to it.

Original poster
21seconds12 · 24/06/2023 00:58

@RedHelenB after she was born it was all in her presence. In the end that’s why I left. Things he threw at me hit her etc

OP posts:
Twillow · 24/06/2023 01:03

He will show his true colours in time.
I agree that you could say something like daddy loves you but he didn't treat me kindly when we were together. I hope he is always kind to you but talk to me if you are ever worried or if anyone ever makes you feel scared..

BePatient · 24/06/2023 07:55

Carryonkeepinggoing · 22/06/2023 12:08

I think she does need age appropriate truth. Take yourself out of the story if he’s casting you as the villain and put the family court judge back in as the decision maker about what was safe for her.
So no, nasty mummy didn’t stop you seeing daddy. Daddy wasn’t being nice to mummy and he wasn’t looking after himself very well. A judge at the family court decided you shouldn’t see him until he could show he was able to look after himself and you. He fought hard to prove he could do that and the judge decided you could see him again.

I agree she needs age appropriate truth, otherwise OP is unintentionally complicit in gaslighting her. You can't go along with a lie just so she can feel secure with the other parent!

As for parental alienation, it's sickening how it's used against abused women. And ironically it's what HE is doing against her but getting away with it because he's the Dad and she's the wicked mother. Ugh. It's a real fault with the system.

OP, I'm going through a similar situation with slightly older children who are savvy and come up to me confused: sometimes they see his tricks and I explore how they came to that conclusion in a supportive way, concentrating on validating their experience and how hard this is for them. I also have always taught them everyone has got some good and some not-so-good parts, and that it's sometimes good to remember the good parts. I don't want them to think black and white over an abusive dad but to be smart about managing him. After all, if it's not dad it may well be a friend, a colleague, a boss... I think even as children you can learn how to still have to see a person and also set boundaries to manage their behaviour to protect yourself and learn how to report it they overstep your boundary. Clearly that's not how I overtly pitch it to them, as a child shouldn't be in charge of parenting an adult (that's a form of emotional abuse in itself), but more it's a case of validating their accuracy of assessments about a person's behaviour, rather than sweeping it under the carpet pretending it can't possibly be true just because he's Dad, and teaching them how to stay confident and safe, and what's annoying and what's unsafe or illegal. Otherwise they have no place to take these very real worries and they learn to doubt their own reality, which is not good. You can't convince a child they're safe with Dad if Dad is an abuser. But you can show them HOW to be safe around Dad because Dad sometimes can be really nice and in his own way has got some love to give his child.

Someone suggested going to a therapist and I did that. I would suggest a psychotherapy rather than listening and nodding counsellor who doesn't offer actual interventions. My therapist would helpfully go through scenarios with me and teach me what to say - or more to the point what my options where, should I choose to take them. So when they say, 'I hate Dad because he was not letting me choose my own birthday party venue', rather than slate their dad (even if it's the truth) by telling them he's a controlling person who was just as bad with you, validate their experiences with 'wow yeah, that must be really hard to want to choose your own party and not be allowed to. I'd have wanted to choose my own party too. We all like freedom to choose, don't we? That's quite normal.'

In your situation I'd maybe say, 'That's really hard to hear things said about mummy like that. It must be really confusing because that's not what you see happen is it? Im here for you and can answer any questions you may have and my job is to support you through this hard time. You sound really worried about Dad and that's very understandable, but children shouldn't have to worry about their parents like that. They need to be carefree and not worth over how the grown ups might be feeling about this sort of thing and the grown ups job is to support the children and how it is for them. The judge would have known you might be worried like this, but still decided it was important enough for you that this is how things are, so we're going to do the right thing and stick with that for now.'

BePatient · 24/06/2023 08:01

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 22/06/2023 13:33

I would absolutely give her a "child-friendly" version of the truth because if you don't he will tell her what he wants and you'll be the bad guy. Others may not agree but there's no way I would be accepting the blame in order for him to look better.
Have you got any letters/paperwork saying that her dad couldn't see her, that you could show her without going into too many details?

The thing about being seen to be the bad guy is...

  1. You will be consistent: he will not. Kids notice that
  2. You will be safe: he will not. Kids notice that
  3. You will not be slating the other parent: he will (which, by the way, makes them feel attacked too, since they are half of that parent)
  4. You will be supporting them emotionally: he will not. He will be blackmailing them and they will notice as they grow older.

Be the parent they need and they will see you are not at all who he says you are. And if they're anything like my children they'll begin to ask if you are this or that or the other, and you can remind them of who they live with and what they see every day. You can build your reputation and their confidence without knocking down the other parent at the same time (even if they deserve it!). Save that for your adult friends.

BePatient · 24/06/2023 08:06

21seconds12 · 22/06/2023 15:15

@MagicBullet she was what about 3 so remembers very little. Contact continued for several months after leaving but he just used it as an excuse to shout and scream at me in front of her, especially if he couldn’t get his own way. He has only stopped the anger since getting with his girlfriend where he’s had a personality transplant. It wasn’t just me he had problems with. He was quite physically abusive to ex’s and lost jobs from intimidating female members of staff.

The anger will return OP.

BePatient · 24/06/2023 08:12

Thisisbollocksmark · 22/06/2023 19:19

Sorry, but no you can't say anything. My father was abusive and it did me absolutely no good psychologically as a child to be informed about it. I deeply wish my mother had waited until I was old enough to process the information without it permanently damaging my self esteem.

@Thisisbollocksmark I'm so sorry this was your experience. Are you able to say how it damaged your self esteem? I mentioned earlier that if one parent slates the other (even if it's true) then the child feels attached because they are half of that parent . Is this what knocked your self esteem or something else? I hope you are able to find ways to heal now, as an adult

TammyJones · 24/06/2023 08:50

@BePatient
Exactly
My dd 32 as an adult figured it years ago.
Kids aren't stupid
Just live your best life and be there when it all falls apart with her dad - as at some point it will
You are a good mum
And that's enough
You're enough

BePatient · 24/06/2023 08:53

Gingergirl70 · 23/06/2023 13:42

His girlfriend is much younger then him by about 15 years and they had a baby in a year. She probably has absolutely no idea. I believed him also when I met him, he plays a good sad person.

His new girlfriend nows his truth. He was damaged by his ex who stopped contact to be nasty. She has supported him through it. Court asked him to send our daughter cards. She made all the cards. What on earth do you think will happen if I go talk to her….?

Can you not see how these two different comments don't compute?

They don't contradict!

The first one is saying she can't know what she's getting into and it was rushed
The second one says she knows HIS version of events against the OP. Ie, not the truth!

They actually fit really well and don't contradict at all!

Original poster
21seconds12 · 24/06/2023 09:32

@BePatient thanks. I am guilty of getting dragged into this tit for tat narrative. I get wound up because of the amount of lies. Last week he talked to her about my dad, her Grampy who passed away a few years back. He was telling her how much he loved her Grampy etc. It was such a lie, he hated my family always commented about how he thought they talked bad about him. He offered me no support when he got cancer, never asked about his treatment. When he died he just left me crying. Why does he feel the need to bring it up and why lie. Why does he need to look good or even say at all. If he talks about my dad why not just say about how he loved our daughter not about him.

OP posts: