Should I tell daughter about her abusive dad?

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I’m in two minds what to do about this. Daughter who is 8 has started seeing her dad after court ordered no contact due to abuse and having to complete courses.

He has moved on and has another relationship and a baby very quickly. Daughter says and it appears he’s a changed man and not treating his partner how he did me. To be honest I don’t care, I’m just happy to no longer be with him.

What is getting me is he is behaving like Disney dad on steroids. When we were together he did nothing with our daughter. He has had a personality replacement. The thing is he is re-writing history. He is telling our daughter lies about our relationship. He was extremely cruel and abusive towards me (and every women before me). Instead of being truthful he is literally making it all up. Do I tell her the truth in an age appropriate way? He is so Disney that he looks like an angel and his girlfriend is also doing a lot for him. He tells her it was me who stopped him seeing her when it was a court, he says to her how he is a hero and he fought so hard. The truth was he drank and smoked drugs and had to pass tests. If he is a changed person then that’s really great for her going forward. But why lie about the past and make me out to be to blame? He was so so cruel. Why not be honest and say I was cruel but I’ve done a lot of soul searching etc…. Or is he still abusing me as he knows she will come home and tell me his lies. It’s like that decade just didn’t happen to him, he was awful and aggressive, threw things at me, threatened me. I ended up with life long health issues from the stress and the fear.

Or do I say nothing and let her think her dad is everything he says he is, but then he is blaming me and lying and looking like a hero???

@Crunchingleaf oh it is hard so so hard when he is a down right lier and anything but a hero. He knows that it will effect me. He knows I’ve a health condition that was caused by his behaviour and is made worse by stress. In that situation I did tell her that we are not responsible for the way people feel or how people behave. She did say I feel sad for him and I said it’s ok to feel sad because you love him. Then she said I’m not allowed to be mad at him because he won’t like it. I said it’s ok to feel all of those things. Mummy feels lots of things sometimes and it’s confusing at times. She says her weekends with him are only allowed to be super happy all the time.

I divorced my ex after 30 years of marriage. He had mental health issues and did, at certain periods, act abusively towards me. Some quite serious stuff around morbid jealously, sexual abuse etc.
my ds’s are now in mod and late twenties. We divorced just 2 years ago. I have never told them the true reasons for the divorce, or about the abuse.
they love their father. Their relationship with him is NOT a reflection on his and my relationship. I know if I ever expressed something about how their father was to blame for the entire relationship issues, theyd be very conflicted. My experience with their dad is not theirs. Ultimately my sharing that with them, without their asking, would almost certainly backfire and lead to difficulties with my relationship with them.
I have never dissed their father, complained about him, or explained. Children, even as adults, do not need or want to be burdened with the difficulties of their parents relationships or their parents worst behaviours. Children are biologically conditioned to seek support and approval from parents no matter what age- as youngster their survival depends on it.

of course your daughter wants to appease her relationship with her father- that’s instinctive. You have to let this be. Explaining to her what really went on will cause her mental distress and stress as you ARE forcing her to form opinions on mummy vs daddy. No child is equipped to do this at any age

children at some point will form their own opinions about their parents. Usually starting in teen years. My sons have their own opinions on their father which are nuanced and complex based on what they actually saw, heard and experienced when they were growing up. They know their dad has issues. They know he wasn’t always nice or kind to me. They know I’m happier and less anxious and fearful since divorce. They’ll have their own interpretation of thst and that’s fine. At some point, maybe when they have kids of their own, they may start to question what really went on. I will , if asked, tell them as much as they want to know at the level of detail they want to know. But, it has to come from them, when they’re ready emotionally to deal with it- and that happens when they have the maturity, life experience and knowledge to accept that there isn’t “happpily ever after” and relationships between parents are complex, and that they can love and like their parent but accept the same parent can be deeply flawed

an 8 year old is way too young. You are the adult, the parent, you have to put your armour on and absorb this shit for her. The phrase “recollections may vary” is what you are after in terms of response. Don’t engage with his spats, be bigger person by never criticising or commenting on your daughters reports of what he’s said. Over time she’ll realise that the snipes, knock downs and other shit only flow one direction and the Disney dad facade will start to tarnish. Hold on absolutely to the knowledge she will not like or feel comfortable with listening to her dad knock you.

Ok, you are absolutely overburdening your daughter with your emotions and feelings. It is not normal for an 8 year old to be saying to a parent “Then she said I’m not allowed to be mad at him because he won’t like it. I said it’s ok to feel all of those things. Mummy feels lots of things sometimes and it’s confusing at times.”
it sounds like there is way too much “confiding” going on between you and your daughter. You need to take charge here. Do not engage with it seriously, which you are. You need to dismiss it lightly “ha, ok then”, don’t challenge it, don’t discuss it and move talk on to another topic.

you are perpetuating giving this air time by engaging with your daughter in it. Just don’t. You don’t have to.

yes, you need to listen to her. Step in if her well-being or safe guarding is being risked, it not WITH her. That’s for courts, police etc. not an 8 year old. Sure, keep a record of what your daughter tells you has happened and has been said whilst she’s been there

but, do not engage with your daughter in giving it air time, responses, conversations. Provide her love and security at home. She is instinctively trying to resolve the conflict she feels emotionally about not seeing her dad, the fear she might end up not seeing him again, by trying to stick that wound back together again by her mummy and daddy being together . That’s being driven by her dads criticism of you. Don’t make it also be driven by you feeding it with your emotions and feeling towards her father too.

My DD is 15. We live apart from husband/father (he changed the locks on the house)
Your thread resonates with me so much. (I posted yesterday) It is NOT about your relationship... that would be a "normal" divorce. This is an ABUSIVE situation. Will continue to be so. Towards YOU and your DD.

I waited until 12 to go to court. I was ordered a non molestation order instantly.

I asked DD (on the back of this thread - I thank you, OP) DD said "I knew you protected me, you were always lovely about Papa, he was hateful about you, so I never felt safe or knew what to believe, I wish you had told me more, earlier. But deep down I always knew"

Hopefully getting divorced very soon... waiting for divorce date.

DD feels very strongly about this.
Please bear this in mind.
You are doing brilliantly. x

@Appleofmyeye2023 a father who abuses their mother in front of them, who threw objects that hit them accidentally as the target was me was abusing his child and he still is. She was directly effected because contact was denied. She wants to what happened and she is being told lots of things she shouldn’t and that aren’t true by her dad. It’s not really the same. I left hoping that she would have a better model of relationships by not staying with an abuser.

@adriftabroad it was the most terrifying decision I have ever made because he said he’d hurt me and himself if I left. She was only 3, I like to think I’ve atleast saved her from years of witnessing horrible abuse. But I feel like I’ve failed as it’s still happening.

It is child abuse to act like this in front of a child.

Times have changed. You really cannot behave like this now.

OP, I repeat, you are doing brilliantly. Keep explaining kindly in the child appropriate way you are doing. Let her know she is safe with you.

As I said yesterday, unless you have been driven to the lengths of going to court (with no resources) you cannot understand the utter desperation.

Exactly how I felt. How I feel now.

@Appleofmyeye2023 I think you have mis read my post. My daughter said she would not be allowed to be mad at her dad. I said that it’s ok to feel sad and mad and all the emotions because sometimes I do and it can be confusing so feel lots of different things. She is confused because she feels sad and happy and angry.

Ok, I hear you
But why bother posting. You have already decided, and are not “in two minds”.

at best, You may not have known that consciously, but you do now given You are pushing back on everyone who says don’t do it and saying their experiences are not yours
so there’s your answer.

I'd tell her the truth. Daddy did fight for you but he had behaved very badly for a long time so a judge said he couldnt see you until his behaviour improved. Now his behaviour has improved he is allowed to see you again.

When she is old enough she can seethe court papers, 8 is too young for that.

I'd say something like ...Daddy was in a bad place when we were together he did some things that are not kind and the court told him he must not see us at it wasn't good for us. He maybe better now but it sounds like he can't remember what happened....

I am extremely conflicted in what I think. In an ideal world we would both just say we have moved on and the most important thing is she has a safe relationship with us both. Instead she has gone from a child who during those years of no contact was happy, doing well at school. Yes she asked about her dad and she missed him. But now she is struggling, she is not behaving at school, she comes home from contact crying. She feels she owes him, her mum who was her safe home is now cruel. It’s so unfair for her. I’ve asked him to stop coming to the door to hand over crying with her and to make coming home a positive experience just like I do when she goes. A quick hug and by and have a good time. I feel like there is no one to turn to anymore. It’s been years of this.

All I get recently is daddy loves me more because he buys me everything and I can do what I want. Daddy cries over me he must love me more. I try very hard to let it go but Im human and yes it hurts. If I say no to her about buying a toy she has said well I will get daddy to come and shout at you. He has told her if anyone is mean to her at school to tell him and he’ll rip there head off….it’s just not fair for her.

Could she maybe be trying to cover up for what she REALLY hears and witnesses at his place? Maybe she’s painting a safe picture for herself. I think a counsellor would be smart.

100% agree with this.
It is NOT your fault OP. Please remember that.

A counsellor has been suffered by quite a few people. OP says she's getting help through the school but when asked, won't expand on what kind of help this is.

I think it's a hugely toxic situation for this child to be in and I'm really concerned for her welfare. I think some real, professional counselling is needed for both mum and daughter. This child must be under huge amounts of pressure from both parents and will end up having a break down, having to go from one house to another, hearing conflicting things constantly, having to get used to seeing dad and his new family after so long a period of no contact.

I honestly think SS should be involved.

She says he’s really over the top happy and she got up and waved her arms around and said he’s like really happy, we have to be happy the whole weekend, sometimes I get tired.

I think he just has something to prove to everyone that’s he’s super ok not the problem. She has said that he has shouted at his girlfriend, especially in the car. We all have arguments though. He’s just playing happy family. His girlfriend is much younger then him by about 15 years and they had a baby in a year. She probably has absolutely no idea. I believed him also when I met him, he plays a good sad person. He was fine as long as you kept he focus on him and had no needs of your own.

I really want her to go and have a good time. I just don’t understand why he has to build the relationship on lies. She would love him regardless. Lying to his girlfriend is wrong also but then why would you tell people what happened. He certainly didn’t tell me till it was too late he beat his last girlfriend, even then he twisted it and said she cheated and so deserved it.

Have you discussed this all with school they may have a councillor that can support her or do you have a social worker

@Whenwillitallmakesense I asked Cafcass for extra support for her but they wouldn’t give it. I’ve asked social services but got nowhere. I’ve asked and asked for help. I’ve been asking for years and years. I told them she needs help settling in. He told her on her first visit she has a new mummy, it caused her to literally break down. No one cares it seems. I do not constantly say things to her, I tell her have a good time I’ll see you in a few days.

If he is gaslighting your little girl with all these lies, that in itself is abuse. I would report it, he is trying to portray himself in a good light.

Have many of you actually bean through the family court process, do you know what it is like to be in it for years and years. There is no support whatsoever, I’ve begged for help and no one cares. It is the father who needs to stop.

Was there a Cafcass officer involved? If so I would ask them to write a family storyboard with her that explains in an age-appropriate way why the court was involved. Tell them she's got lots of questions that you're struggling to answer, and that your ex is exploiting to absolve him of any responsibility. They can do some really creative work with children whose parents have been abusive.

Okay, I'm going to drop out of this thread. It's making me so stressed. I've reported it twice to MNHQ, but they obviously feel differently than I.

OP, your threads are getting contradictory. But if you're now saying new GF knows nothing about his past, although youve said she helped him change, supported him through stuff, then bloody tell her. Get her to do a Clare's law disclosure with police. Do you really feel that just because you weren't made aware of his behaviour, that it's OK not to pass that information on to a young, vulnerable woman with a child? I may be wrong and a lot of people will say its not your responsibility, but I think that's skewed thinking.

I beg you though, get your daughter some proper help. She must be an absolute mess. If you've begged SS and Cafcass, go to your GP, go to a women's aid charity, give your child number to Childline, get a referral to CAMHS. Anything in your power to find someone for her to talk to that isn't you or dad so she can speak freely without fear or upsetting either of you.

And ffs, get some counselling for yourself. With all due respect it, you need it if you are going to be a strong, supportive, rational parent to your poor daughter.

His new girlfriend nows his truth. He was damaged by his ex who stopped contact to be nasty. She has supported him through it. Court asked him to send our daughter cards. She made all the cards. What on earth do you think will happen if I go talk to her….?