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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Should I tell daughter about her abusive dad?

234 replies

21seconds12 · 22/06/2023 07:40

I’m in two minds what to do about this. Daughter who is 8 has started seeing her dad after court ordered no contact due to abuse and having to complete courses.

He has moved on and has another relationship and a baby very quickly. Daughter says and it appears he’s a changed man and not treating his partner how he did me. To be honest I don’t care, I’m just happy to no longer be with him.

What is getting me is he is behaving like Disney dad on steroids. When we were together he did nothing with our daughter. He has had a personality replacement. The thing is he is re-writing history. He is telling our daughter lies about our relationship. He was extremely cruel and abusive towards me (and every women before me). Instead of being truthful he is literally making it all up. Do I tell her the truth in an age appropriate way? He is so Disney that he looks like an angel and his girlfriend is also doing a lot for him. He tells her it was me who stopped him seeing her when it was a court, he says to her how he is a hero and he fought so hard. The truth was he drank and smoked drugs and had to pass tests. If he is a changed person then that’s really great for her going forward. But why lie about the past and make me out to be to blame? He was so so cruel. Why not be honest and say I was cruel but I’ve done a lot of soul searching etc…. Or is he still abusing me as he knows she will come home and tell me his lies. It’s like that decade just didn’t happen to him, he was awful and aggressive, threw things at me, threatened me. I ended up with life long health issues from the stress and the fear.

Or do I say nothing and let her think her dad is everything he says he is, but then he is blaming me and lying and looking like a hero???

OP posts:
Gingergirl70 · 22/06/2023 20:31

He might be being manipulative in others ways, but hes not manipulating her into going to visit. The court ordered it. You've said this repeatedly. She'd have to go if she wanted to or not until she's of an age where the court will accept that she can make her own decisions.

You've explained a lot about why dad was ordered to take courses but you've not touched on why you were ordered to take a parenting course too. I'm genuinely interested to know as they're not ordered lightly.

I'm glad you're not telling her all the stuff you're wanting to and I'm glad she's getting help through school. How did that come about and what kind of help is she getting? Is it professional counselling?

Have you considered counselling for yourself?

21seconds12 · 22/06/2023 21:09

@Gingergirl70 the separated parents course is widely ordered to all parents even in cases of domestic abuse. He was found guilty of the abuse towards myself and of the instances where he threw things at me and they hit her. He admitted to smoking weed and drinking and of leaving the house unliveable for her to visit as it was covered in mould. He also admitted to not dressing, brushing hair, feeding etc. But the new girlfriend does this now so that’s sorted according from then. cafcass wanted us both to attend the course as it was part of a new ICFA course they offered, in order to do that both parents had to attend the Separated parents course. They ordered it separately so that I didn’t have to see him

OP posts:
Gingergirl70 · 22/06/2023 21:17

With all due respect, not all separated parents are ordered to attend these courses. I know this for an absolute fact due to the job I do.

Also, you can't get 'found guilty' of abuse in a family court, only in a criminal court - is that what you meant? Was he arrested, charged and convicted in a criminal court?

A family court can prefer your evidence over his (although it sounds like he admitted to most of it) and make orders based on their findings, like the parenting courses which ate usually recommended following investigations by CAFCASS. But there is no such thing as being 'found guilty'.

He does sound funking horrendous though do I'm surprised he hasn't got a criminal conviction. Was never charged with anything following the DV?

StarDolphins · 22/06/2023 21:36

When she says she feels sorry for him /he said he wanted to see me but mummy stopped it sort of things I would say something like “that’s not what happened, a court made that decision, not me. But at least Daddy has made some changes and the now the court has decided he can see you again which is really great for both of you”

I would then save every court paper/text/email from him & if needed, show them to her when she’s older.

I’m betting you won’t need to as this hero daddy facade won’t last. Anyone of your ex’s character rarely change & as she gets older, I’m sure she will see.

My ex does the whole ‘I’m great, I’m the best, super daddy’ performance with long drawn out goodbyes like he’s going to war but how long can he keep it going!

Ilovetea42 · 22/06/2023 21:42

Often abusers will continue to abuse their ex through their children by creating a false narrative etc. I would tell her the truth in an age appropriate way. You could say something like I'm glad it feels like your daddy is a good daddy to you, but being a good daddy and a good partner are different and while he's a good daddy to you, he wasn't a good partner to me and it's important to be with someone who's a good partner to you. Then you can gradually expand as she gets older on what actually happened.

Maray1967 · 22/06/2023 21:43

I’d contact him and make it clear that if it doesn’t stop you will explain to her that a judge stopped him seeing her because it was not safe for her. And that when she’s older you will provide more evidenced detail. There is no way I would put up with this crap - what are you going to do if he does turn her against you? If she decides she wants to live there?

Morewineplease10 · 22/06/2023 21:45

OP I think she needs age appropriate truth too. I'm in a similar situation as you - I think a lot of people just don't get it.

Sounds like she'd be better off being low contact with him. He can't be trusted. He hasn't changed by the way!!

StarDolphins · 22/06/2023 21:46

AhNowTed · 22/06/2023 17:45

OP for heavens sake, be the adult and protect your daughter from all this.

She is a child, and doesn't need to know, regardless of how unfair it is to you.

i disagree with this. She’s starting to believe what he’s saying, he’s alienating & basically saying Mummy stopped him from seeing her.

You are well within your rights to briefly & in an age appropriate out her right on that it was the courts decision, not yours and that they wanted daddy to do some courses to help him be able to safely look after you. Quickly & move on & keep saying the same thing.

SSCCLL · 22/06/2023 21:48

I'm having similar problems with my 9yo. They've been questioning their dads ability to keep them safe as situations keep coming up. I've been as honest as I can without over sharing and making sure it's all age appropriate. It's true when people say they'll find out in their own time. I just didn't believe it and thought he would look like the hero forever.

Crunchingleaf · 23/06/2023 00:16

My ex is very manipulative towards DC. He frequently uses guilt to get his own way, blames everyone but himself for things, lies etc. Over time I would point out that type of behaviour if we saw it in movies or with other people (never when his dad did it though) so DC would learn to identify it and hopefully build healthy boundaries.

For the PP saying child needs secure attachment from both parents etc. Yes that’s in an ideal world where neither parent isn’t an abusive twat. The child is being exposed to harmful behaviour here from her father. His behaviour is priming her to repeat the cycle of abuse when she becomes an adult. His manipulation will be normal to her.

At same time OP you can never badmouth him to your DD. That will hurt her, but also his lies will hurt her because once she believes them it will damage OP’s relationship with the DD.

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 01:30

@Gingergirl70 what I meant was all my
findings were upheld. He was eventually sent on a DAPP. I’m sorry but in my experience 90% of the people at
my freedom programme were made to attend a spip. I was asked if I would attend an ICFA, improving child family arrangements programme, a new at the time programme with Cafcass. I agreed because I wanted and always promoted safe contact. I was told that to go on this programme both parents have to attend the SPIP. I was to go and tick the box for the sake of getting some supervised contact up for our daughter. At this point I was LIP so really just wanted the
stress to be over.

OP posts:
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 01:34

A lady at my support group was quite badly sexually assaulted and required surgery and he was arrested. She was ordered to attend a SPIP. It’s disgusting. I’ve wanted nothing but to follow it but he isn’t in return.

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 23/06/2023 01:37

Parental alienation is illegal, right? Surely you have a case for that. Also, if he HAS gained the insight required, why is he doing something so insidious and destructive? I would seek advice from one of the women’s organizations and maybe get her to speak to a counsellor at school about it so that it’s documented.

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 01:37

Just to add so you don’t think I’m not telling the truth. The lady taking my course was aware that I was a victim of abuse and was very kind.

Should I tell daughter about her abusive dad?
OP posts:
CheekyHobson · 23/06/2023 01:47

I strongly disagree with people saying OP shouldn't say anything on the basis that adults need to keep the details of their relationship away from their children.

That's all well and good if both parents are abiding by it, but that's not what's happening here. The OP's ex is giving the daughter a provably skewed narrative and if the OP says nothing to contradict it, that's the narrative the daughter is going to believe, because everyone is acting as though that's reality.

It is MUCH healthier for her to learn that sometimes people tell different stories about the same set of events and it can be hard to figure out which story is closer to the truth. Over time she will learn what kind of evidence backs up a story (court rulings, behaviour over time) and this will aid her in developing critical thinking skills.

Of course the OP should be age-appropriate in what she tells her daughter, but she should still be clear that Daddy and Mummy have different views of events.

"It's not true that I tried to stop Daddy seeing you. Daddy was behaving in ways that weren't always safe, and a person called a judge - who helps grown-ups decide what to do in difficult situations - made the decision that Daddy needed to learn some new behaviours before he could see you again. He's done that, and I'm happy that the two of you can see each other again. But he shouldn't be telling you stories about the past that aren't true."

Personally I would also send a very restrained, calm but clear email to him (this is documentation in case you need it in future) expressing your concern that by saying things like "Daddy can't live without you", he is putting heavy concerns onto a child in a way that is unhealthy and may damage to her wellbeing. Express that she seems upset and feels the need to 'take care of him', which is not her role as a child. The parents are there to care for the children, not the other way around.

I'd say that you support them having a relationship now that he is behaving in more healthy ways, but do not support him saying things like "Mummy tried to stop Daddy from seeing you" rather than that the restricted contact was decided by an independent party. You have told her that what Daddy has said is not accurate, as it was a judge who decided Daddy needed to take some time away to work on some things first.

I'd also so that you believe it may be damaging for their future relationship if he makes false claims about the past, as your daughter will be able to understand they are false once she is older given that there is clear evidence to support what you have told her. You would be happy to leave the past in the past and allow them to build a good relationship, but BOTH parents need to commit to putting your child first by not discussing adult concerns with her from now on.

It’s like he’s hit reset and had a complete personality transplant.

There's already plenty of evidence in your thread that he hasn't actually changed at a fundamental level and is still engaging in manipulative and dishonest behaviours, but just so you know, this 'blank slate/full reset' thing is a very common part of the cycle abusers go through.

They tell themselves that they can simply wipe an unpleasant chapter or chapters in their lives away as though it never happened or was caused by something entirely outside themselves, and that they can start 'completely afresh' and 'be completely different' now. Of course, this 'history wipe' means they disregard their past experiences and therefore fail to see themselves when they start to repeat the same basic pattern, just with some new variations.

CheekyHobson · 23/06/2023 01:52

At same time OP you can never badmouth him to your DD.

I just want to say, because sometimes I think people can be unclear about this, being honest about someone is not bad-mouthing them, even if they do not come off well in an honest description.

"Daddy had some trouble behaving safely around you so a judge said he needed to take some time by himself to learn how to behave safely" = honest description.

"Daddy is a selfish jerk who only cares about himself and the judge said he shouldn't be around you" = badmouthing.

Thistlelass · 23/06/2023 03:11

No. She is 8 years old. Tell her your version when she is much older if you really must. What you do need to do is equip her to recognise is she is not being treated well. Anything she says to you that you are not happy with you must address with her Dad. If you cannot do that find a third party who can.

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 06:50

I’m not saying I’ve made my mind up but let’s say I say nothing for 5 years and she hears only that it was mummy’s fault and daddy did nothing at all. Is she really then going to believe anything I say. I have to correct her when she says things to be that are simply untrue don’t I. When she said to me that I was cruel to stop them seeing each other I had to tell her that mummy remembered things differently. I told her that as a mummy I had to keep us safe. I said daddy behaved in unsafe ways. Last night she said why did stop daddy giving me the presents he sent. At court he was told to stop sending really large gifts to my door and to only send gifts that could be posted. He didn’t and continued turning up, sometimes trying to kick the door in. I told her that mummy left the house and moved in with her mummy and that this was mummies safe place. Daddy was told at court not to come to mummies safe place but he did not listen and it made mummy scared. It was a judge who said not to let her have the gifts as it was manipulation, I didn’t say that. She said daddy said he never did that and that I was cruel not giving her the ride in car etc. He loved her so much he just wanted to give her gifts. It is too much for a small child but he needs to stop saying things to her. He won’t because he wants to get in first with a narrative that makes him look good.

OP posts:
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 06:51

@Thistlelass do you not think that I’ve tried, the court has tired, all the courses he’s been on have tried. Do you thing me addressing it with him will make any difference or a third party? He doesn’t care, doesn’t think.

OP posts:
21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 07:05

She has also said daddy didn’t mean to he told me. I just said that no one can tell you how you feel is right or wrong. If you feel scared then no one can tell you you shouldn’t same with sad or happy. Our emotions are telling us things. We must be kind to people because we can hurt people by saying bad things. She said that daddy said only hitting people hurts them and not words so I said that’s not true. I asked her about how it hurt when someone said something mean to her at school. He doesn’t/can’t seem to understand that how he treated me scared me into acting. His behaviour stopped the contact. Him turning up to my safe house making noise etc all in front of her. He has always denied my emotions. It’s how I ended up with a breakdown. I want her to listen to her emotions and not put them aside.

OP posts:
AhNowTed · 23/06/2023 08:38

OP and how do you think filling her head with the details of your side of the story is going to help.

She'll just go back to daddy and say mummy said this. And on and on it goes, forever embroiled in the detritus of your relationship.

For gods sake, keep it vague, no it wasn't like that. No details, and allow your poor daughter to have some semblance of an innocent childhood.

She will learn the truth in time.

21seconds12 · 23/06/2023 09:11

@AhNowTed oh god no I don’t want to fill her head with details. I don’t think I’ve ever said I wanted to do that. But I will not just let him say things and not challenge. If he says he has never done anything then I will say that we have a different opinion and that’s why a judge made the decision they did. We can not act scary and expect the other person to not get scared. It is a mummy’s job to keep you safe and that is what I did at that time. At the end of the day a judge would not have stopped contact for 3 years if he had done nothing wrong, didn’t say that. I’ve said many times I’m glad he went on the course and has learnt how to be more safe. But he isn’t being emotionally safe and it’s hard because I want her to understand that she isn’t responsible for the way he feels, for his past etc etc. She is her own person with her own needs.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 23/06/2023 10:16

I want her to understand that she isn’t responsible for the way he feels

So the neutral way is to teach her that ''children are not responsible for how adults feel.'' Leave him out of it, otherwise it is no longer a valuable life lesson that you are giving her for her benefit.

Crunchingleaf · 23/06/2023 10:49

So the neutral way is to teach her that ''children are not responsible for how adults feel.'' Leave him out of it, otherwise it is no longer a valuable life lesson that you are giving her for her benefit.

I agree here totally. I remove the reference to my Ex when DC says something like I need to make dad happy. Over time DC has learned to identify his dads poor behaviour. The other benefit is that she is less likely at this age to say to his mummy said I am not responsible for your feelings when you remove the reference to your ex.

OP it’s totally shit dealing with men like this. They completely believe the lies they tell and majority are incapable of real change so will never be good fathers. You have to put huge emphasis on minimising the damage he will do to her without getting dragged into the gutter yourself.