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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic relationship voice recordings

230 replies

karisa282 · 08/06/2023 10:29

Hi my husband has been voice recording me without my consent for the last 8 years
he is from iraq and I am half Iraqi but raised in the U.K.
in April after 2 years of me asking he agreed to have another child as long as I agreed that we would visit iraq in the next few months and contribute to the bills -
yesterday he showed me the recording and I was devastated he recorded me. I told him I’m not sure about going to iraq as it’s very polluted there and his parents just came to visit us here 5 months ago but he’s adamant that we have to go there. And I should pay half the trip. If i don’t agree to Iraq he said we won’t go abroad anywhere else forever ( Spain etc ) and I will be responsible for the misery.

incident 3 days ago: I tell kids nicely at night : daddy will read you a story
he then barks : DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

i then got so upset I threatened him and I drove away and my dad had to come and speak to us . My dad said husband shouldn’t shout but husband said I provoke him as he told me many times that he doesn’t always want to read the story and I should ask him nicely.

he has kept recordings from years ago and said it’s because he doesn’t trust me ( I have autism and bpd and in the past if he said something I didn’t like I would lash out and try to take his phone away which would lead to me scratching his arm unintentionally)

I feel I am being extorted. Yesterday we had a big fight as I wanted to sleep alone in bed and I lay horizontally so there would be no room for him but he still insisted Its his bed too- then I walked out at night I bumped into his rear bumper when I found out about all his voice recordings- his car has a small chipped scratch only. I tried to take his phone away but he resisted and he shouted into the recording “ stop hitting me” but I was only trying to take phone away.

when he saw his car he rushed back in and smashed a painting off wall and chucked some of my stuff out the window.
when we were back inside he looked for the cctv footage of me bumping into his car but it did not appear but he made me admit it verbally into his voice recorder. If I didn’t he was going to call police and he did call them but hung up.

we can’t discuss divorce As he might be recording and he told me to assume that he’s always recording. I told him his recordings are inadmissible in any court but he said police can view them.
I want to leave and take kids to another part of the U.K. but I feel trapped if leave he will show the recordings to police and get custody. I’m very stressed and can’t sleep while he sleeps very well.

OP posts:
AnyaMarx · 22/06/2023 21:42

Are you there op ?

AnyaMarx · 23/06/2023 00:43

Op - please check in and take my advice .

You can and would be protected.

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 06:47

thx For your advice
i don’t have any proof that he’s asked me to go iraq and what he’ll do if I don’t go
I don’t have texts /emails or any proof that he said he’ll stop paying the bills /he won’t send me a copy of the “iPad contract” and he won’t get couples counselling.

it’s just my word against his

ive tried to text him but he doesn’t reply he only verbally speaks .
also the police is only first step there are too many hurdles after like courts and judges
plus my father said I made my life like this by my behaviour which I know is not all true

OP posts:
NothingbutaHounddog666 · 23/06/2023 08:22

@karisa282 it seems to me that you have been offered valuable advice by many on your post particularly @AnyaMarx but are presenting uninportant excuses and arguments as to why you are not heeding the advice.

Take action for your children if not for you! He should not be allowed to abuse them and by not doing anything to stop it, you are complicit in their abuse.

It seems to me that whilst you are happy to vent on MN, you are frozen in taking the simple steps to remove yourself and children from his abuse and coercive control. Stop engaging with him and arguing. You cannot win against a man like this.

Ignore your parents, what they say and trying to please them etc etc. THIS IS YOUR ONLY LIFE. GIVE YOUR CHILDREN A BETTER FUTURE.

BBC News - Arthur’s Seat killer told wife to stop being like a 'British woman'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65953932

AnyaMarx · 23/06/2023 08:25

You dont need to prove anything.

And your overthinking courts etc - that's way down the line if at all - but the police could safeguard you first and foremost and get you and your children out of this situation

Don't keep finding hurdles that aren't there - what your father says right now is irrelevant and damaging- I do think karma nirvana could help you .

If you do t want to pursue it no one can make you but they could safeguard you and get you to a place of safety .

PonyPals · 23/06/2023 09:05

I'm sorry but this is beginning to sound very odd. I just hope all these amazing posters are not wasting their valuable advice.

Greenflamesburn · 23/06/2023 09:29

OP please ring again today and leave another voicemail
if necessary. Please re read the advice from @AnyaMarx they have made some very good points.

Can you try to present yourself at a police station today.

Please don't let yourself and your children live in this existence please start leaving.

And ignore your father. His advice is not helpful.

I know the unknown is scary and a minefield, it can also be beautiful and freeing.

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 12:55

I would like to take the kids and rent somewhere but it will deplete my savings and he will text me and call asking where we are and try to get me done for kidnap
I appreciate everyone’s advice but I need some time to gather proof such as texts and emails as im not in immediate physical danger.

He can argue that I’m controlling as well which is true - I make him turn his phone to airplane mode/wifi calling when home as im scared of radiation but the difference between me and him is I don’t threaten him if he doesn’t do it

I’ve tried to tell him he can change and stop having rigid thoughts but he said “that’s who you married live with it “ and he shuts the conversation off.

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 23/06/2023 13:08

I appreciate everyone’s advice but I need some time to gather proof such as texts and emails as im not in immediate physical danger.

You're in immediate danger of losing your children the second he gets you or them in a plane to Iraq.

AnyaMarx · 23/06/2023 13:57

You need help to leave .

You don't need proof of anything. You're finding excuses because it's hard .

You don't need to rent somewhere and disappear. The children are yours so you cannot be accused of kidnap.

Even if you do not want to press charges the police could help you and the children,

What is going to happen when he starts to pester you to pay and get tickets to Iraq ?

You do realise once there you are completely at his mercy ?
The uk law cannot help you then . In Iraq you will be very very vulnerable. He can take the children.
He can divorce you
He can beat you and no one will bat an eyelid .
He could murder you .

You are severely downplaying the danger you are in , the danger your children are in and you do not need emails or texts - your word is all you need - all crimes are someone's word against the other - it's not for you to find evidence . You aren't investigating him . All you would need to do is tell the police what you wrote here . They do t just say oh go away and find evidence ! They will get a safe place to stay for you and the kids and refer you to karma nirvana. They can protect you.
If you carry on saying "yeah but ...." ask yourself why . Do you want to leave ? Or can you live with the abuse .
Karma nirvana understand the cultural issues around dv and escaping abusive arranged marriages. There is also the Asian women's network. There will also be local charities that support Asian women - there certainly is where I work . Just talk to them . This marriage is about as fucked up as it gets .

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 16:41

He can retaliate and tell police I bumped his car and I scratched him trying to get phone off him and he has pics from scratches of years ago . Then they might take me away he can deny ever threatening me

during summer holidays I will try to move away somewhere

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 23/06/2023 16:44

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 16:41

He can retaliate and tell police I bumped his car and I scratched him trying to get phone off him and he has pics from scratches of years ago . Then they might take me away he can deny ever threatening me

during summer holidays I will try to move away somewhere

You don't seem to understand OP that you can't leave a man like this safely without professional help.

You can't avoid involving the police just because he's made you believe he can get you in trouble.

You need the police involved to help you and your children be safe.

He knows that and it's why he's trained you to believe you're more at risk of being in trouble than he is.

You aren't. It's a lie he's made you believe to stop you from leaving him.

You need to stop listening to him and start listening to professionals. Which means you need to talk to professionals.

Call Muslim Women's Network so that they can give advise that takes into account the cultural factors and risk of the Iraq trick at play here.

AnyaMarx · 23/06/2023 17:34

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 16:41

He can retaliate and tell police I bumped his car and I scratched him trying to get phone off him and he has pics from scratches of years ago . Then they might take me away he can deny ever threatening me

during summer holidays I will try to move away somewhere

None of that matters- he's brain washed you . Anyone can lie about anything- it makes no
Difference. We know people who are being held to Accor t about things lie their way out of it - that's human nature- we do t just believe the first thing that comes out of the mouths of abusive men op .

And you simply tell
The police that you know his defence will be x y z . He is using this
To
Exert power over you and control you .

AnyaMarx · 23/06/2023 22:05

If you can't talk to police yet - talk to women's aid , or Asian women's network, or karma nirvana.

I think you are starting to realise that the situation you are in is not healthy- baby steps is fine .

But dont get on a plane . Not for all the tea in China . Fake illness or something- but do not leave the uk .
X

jannier · 24/06/2023 13:51

karisa282 · 23/06/2023 16:41

He can retaliate and tell police I bumped his car and I scratched him trying to get phone off him and he has pics from scratches of years ago . Then they might take me away he can deny ever threatening me

during summer holidays I will try to move away somewhere

They won't take you away. The agency recommended to you would have told you this. The more you talk to agencies the more evidence there is to support you. Please listen to others who have gone through this

contrary13 · 25/06/2023 16:59

It doesn't matter what he says, @karisa282 - the police will understand that you're not the abusive liar... but that he is. Please listen to everyone on this post, who are all very concerned about not only your safety - but your children's too!

A few years ago, my daughter had a psychotic break with reality and decided that she wanted to, essentially, get rid of the younger sibling she never really wanted and punish me for not terminating the pregnancy, like she'd told me too. At the time I was pregnant, not only was she 8 years old, but it was very much planned. She wasn't happy about a lot of things, didn't want my then-partner on the scene (not her biological father, but we'd been together since before she could even remember... but never lived together. Ever. Which is important as to the actual why!) and hated the possibility of having to share me even more than she already had to. My career was/is demanding, she liked being the absolute centre of attention, which - in hindsight - I didn't deal with very well (as in, I tried to explain to her that she is but a very small cog in a very big wheel), and neither did the schools. When she had the psychotic break, she was 19 and her younger sibling was 10. In 2016, she decided that my having been single for 6 years because she ordered me not to ever date again, wasn't good enough. So she rang the police and told them that I'd assaulted her. Lied through her teeth to them, to have me arrested (which yes; they had to do whilst they investigated her claims - the laws had recently changed concerning domestic abuse/violence, you see, which she didn't know, so these very apologetic police officers who'd responded to her 999 call and found me and her brother not only still in pyjamas because we were both sick at the time, but her in gleeful hysterics, took me in to the cells) and her 10 year old brother taken into care. That was her plan. It happened. I spent 7 hours sat in those cells, worried sick that I would never see my son again because of my daughter's lies. And I hadn't actually done anything to deserve it. Luckily, a year prior she'd warned me of what she was intermittently planning on doing and I'd the foresight to DM a friend about it. I could prove that she'd planned it out in great detail - and I gave the police officer who was investigating my alleged offences, full access to that social media account, to do a deep dive into the messages (which was embarrassing as the friend and I were discussing things like her struggles to breastfeed and things like that, and the officer was male). During the interview where I broke down and outlined all of the abuse which she'd dealt out to me/her brother, he kept asking me if I was frightened of her. He knew, because he had years of experience dealing with DV and abuse cases, that I wasn't lying, that there was something going very wrong with my daughter's MH - because he'd undoubtedly found my DMs to the friend in which I'd expressed my anxieties concerning her shifts in personality and behaviour (which, at the time, we'd all been putting down to the lad she was seeing - who ended up running away to the literal opposite end of the UK to escape her!) - and that I was genuinely afraid both of and for her.

I was released without any charges being pressed against me - which, due to the nature of her allegations, would have been out of her hands completely because of the shift in the laws regarding DV and abuse! - and she was invited to a full psychological evaluation. Which was great, because she received a proper diagnosis, medicated, and didn't end up in prison herself. My son... was never taken into the care system, and although we were assessed by Children's Services, because of his age and her lies - we welcomed it. At that point, I was still terrified of losing both of my children...

The police are trained to pick up on nuances of behaviour - tells, if you like - when they speak to people in situations like yours/mine/thousands of others. And they know that anyone can be abusive in a relationship (in your case, it's your husband, in mine it's my daughter, in Joe Bloggs from down the road's, it's his wife...), for any number of reasons, and they deal accordingly. They will help you! Please believe me when I tell you this. You have to protect your children by protecting yourself. If he takes them to Iraq, you may never see them again. If you stay with him, and he kills you, then they will never see their mother again.

Your father is wrong, by the way. He is victim-shaming, which a lot of people do. Think of the rape survivors who are too afraid to take their rapists to court because from the very start everyone judges what they were wearing, if they accepted a drink from him, if they did X, Y, Z to encourage him... That's very similar to what your parents are telling you now. Nothing that you have done, warrants what your husband is doing to you. My daughter also recorded me - shouting up the stairs at her to tidy her room, or telling her that I was tired of always having to pick up after her... The police officer who was investigating me, obviously spoke to her and told her (my parents were both present) that she was exhibiting signs of coercive control and that she could be prosecuted for it. That she could go to prison if I mentioned during my interview that she'd been recording me (which I didn't because I didn't know at the time - my parents were the ones to tell me!). Now my abuser is/was mentally unwell - but yours... actually, I'm more inclined to suspect that he's just abusive as a general, all-round individual. Which is worse. Because he is making the choice to treat you, the mother of his children, like this. And it's you who are terrified of facing the consequences of his choice.

Please, from the bottom of my heart, OP, leave him. He will never change, he will wear you down until you snap and possibly end up doing something daft - and it's your children who will ultimately suffer the consequences, without their mum around to protect them. Sad

karisa282 · 25/06/2023 18:28

An amicable divorce is better than calling the police as if I make trouble he will show the recordings to the kids in future to show how their mother was…. He said the recordings are for incase I decide to bad mouth his new partner if ever he gets one
He wants 50% of the house sale profits and 20% of the original price

OP posts:
Greenflamesburn · 25/06/2023 18:37

Better calling the police than losing the kids and house.

TUCKINGFYP0 · 25/06/2023 18:40

Have you contacted the agencies recommended above @karisa282 ?

They will also be able to recommend a lawyer who will help you with your divorce and safeguarding your children.

Stop discussing money and divorce with your husband .
Stop worrying about his future partner and what he might say it the children , you cannot control any of these things.
Stop discussing the recordings and the document you signed.
Stop talking to him about the police.

All these things will just stir up trouble and achieve nothing. You need expert advice and to make your plans to get out. You must tell your husband nothing and act like a good wife.

karisa282 · 28/06/2023 06:48

He’s pestering me for the tickets the trip is supposed to be in October half term
hed like me to pay it all and then he’ll transfer half later when I’m on the plane
without booking it he’s not going to book any U.K. holidays either . I said I would have to wait to see my pregnancy health status in October and hope a midwife would write a letter saying I can’t travel.

I have a hard time as my mother is severely mentally Ill there’s another thread about her on here and I can’t offload on my parents anymore as they’re already stressed

OP posts:
karisa282 · 28/06/2023 06:51

He’s not recording anymore
the Muslim women’s network gave me divorce advice to go through civil courts rather than sharia courts but that’s all
another domestic abuse service said they’ll call me frequently to offer support

it doesn’t look good for me if he has a voice recording from years back when I had a knife pointed at him not that I would have used it I just wanted him to feel anxious for once

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 28/06/2023 07:12

I said I would have to wait to see my pregnancy health status in October and hope a midwife would write a letter saying I can’t travel.

People have explained to you many times that he can still take the kids with him.

And then you're totally at his mercy re whether they come back or not.

Did you explain to Muslim Women's Network that people have made you aware the trip might be risky regarding the children being taken to Iraq by their father? And discuss that with them?

What did you say when the domestic violence charity offered you ongoing support?

Greenflamesburn · 28/06/2023 08:04

Please check I'm with the support that will be offered to you.
Are you sure he has stopped recovering? He may have bought spy cameras. I doesn't break a habit that easily.

With more and more you have shared about the records I get the feeling he gets a kick out of winding you up and recording it.
Just because you get a certificate of non flight it won't cover the children. Only you and the baby.
Again please keep in contact with the support agencies and contact the civil courts.

Break the washing machine door off on purpose or something like that so you have to use the holiday money on something more important. I.e. keeping the clothes for the family clean.
It is the only thing I can think of to help stop you having money to spend on a holiday. Potentially losing the children. I know you said he wony stay there. He could leave the children in his family care and come back without them to spite you.
Dont let that happen to you.

The thing is if you were as unhinged as he is trying to make out why has he stayed?! It doesn't add up with that he will say. Keep strong OP

eveoha · 28/06/2023 08:25

Why would you want to bring an innocent child into this hellish chaos - the height of selfishness and solipsism ( and why no outside help for your mental health)

blackpooolrock · 28/06/2023 10:24

You need to stop worrying about his recordings - the police will not be interested in them - they would be more interested to ask him why he was recording you and why he is threatening you in their use - thats blackmail which is illegal.