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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic relationship voice recordings

230 replies

karisa282 · 08/06/2023 10:29

Hi my husband has been voice recording me without my consent for the last 8 years
he is from iraq and I am half Iraqi but raised in the U.K.
in April after 2 years of me asking he agreed to have another child as long as I agreed that we would visit iraq in the next few months and contribute to the bills -
yesterday he showed me the recording and I was devastated he recorded me. I told him I’m not sure about going to iraq as it’s very polluted there and his parents just came to visit us here 5 months ago but he’s adamant that we have to go there. And I should pay half the trip. If i don’t agree to Iraq he said we won’t go abroad anywhere else forever ( Spain etc ) and I will be responsible for the misery.

incident 3 days ago: I tell kids nicely at night : daddy will read you a story
he then barks : DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

i then got so upset I threatened him and I drove away and my dad had to come and speak to us . My dad said husband shouldn’t shout but husband said I provoke him as he told me many times that he doesn’t always want to read the story and I should ask him nicely.

he has kept recordings from years ago and said it’s because he doesn’t trust me ( I have autism and bpd and in the past if he said something I didn’t like I would lash out and try to take his phone away which would lead to me scratching his arm unintentionally)

I feel I am being extorted. Yesterday we had a big fight as I wanted to sleep alone in bed and I lay horizontally so there would be no room for him but he still insisted Its his bed too- then I walked out at night I bumped into his rear bumper when I found out about all his voice recordings- his car has a small chipped scratch only. I tried to take his phone away but he resisted and he shouted into the recording “ stop hitting me” but I was only trying to take phone away.

when he saw his car he rushed back in and smashed a painting off wall and chucked some of my stuff out the window.
when we were back inside he looked for the cctv footage of me bumping into his car but it did not appear but he made me admit it verbally into his voice recorder. If I didn’t he was going to call police and he did call them but hung up.

we can’t discuss divorce As he might be recording and he told me to assume that he’s always recording. I told him his recordings are inadmissible in any court but he said police can view them.
I want to leave and take kids to another part of the U.K. but I feel trapped if leave he will show the recordings to police and get custody. I’m very stressed and can’t sleep while he sleeps very well.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 10/06/2023 13:46

karisa282 · 09/06/2023 07:22

Also he will tell the police I knocked his car as he said that’s abusive because I was so upset he’s been recording me for years even during no argument
he recorded me in April saying I will go to iraq in the next few months only so that if I don’t go he can show me the recording and prove I’m a liar

Are you legally married in the UK?

Nanny0gg · 10/06/2023 13:47

Nanny0gg · 10/06/2023 13:46

Are you legally married in the UK?

Cross-posted.

Ring women's aid again

unsync · 10/06/2023 13:55

He is abusing you. It is not uncommon for the perpetrator to claim to be the victim when the actual victim retaliates.

Do not have another child with this man. Do not stay with this man. Seek help from your local Women's Aid.

karisa282 · 11/06/2023 10:43

If I file for divorce he’s going to see the papers arriving and be nasty so we’re going to be under the same roof while the divorce drags on which my mental state can’t handle.

OP posts:
WilkinsonM · 11/06/2023 10:46

karisa282 · 09/06/2023 07:18

Yes I understand though I have bpd and clinical depression/anxiety
he has recordings of the past where it looks like I kick him to make him trip up and drop the phone
if I don’t go to iraq he may stop paying all bills and he said debt collectors will come unless I pay all of it. As he has a new job lined up in the U.K. I don’t think he would stay in iraq.

I can’t stand when he shouts I’m a LIAr and that he hates liars as I previously agreed to iraq trip and now don’t want to go- he said I just said that to get pregnant. And reason he made a “contract” is because he doesn’t want another child.

also I own 80% of the property so I feel I can’t just leave .
if we divorce neither will give permission for the other to take kids abroad anywhere so they will miss out on holidays .

This can be sorted out in the divorce. You can get a child arrangements order which specifies the time you can both take them abroad without parental agreement.

CC222 · 11/06/2023 11:26

What he is doing is abuse.
Please speak to Women's Aid to get some support on how you can escape this relationship.

jannier · 11/06/2023 11:46

karisa282 · 11/06/2023 10:43

If I file for divorce he’s going to see the papers arriving and be nasty so we’re going to be under the same roof while the divorce drags on which my mental state can’t handle.

That's why you get advice from the DA helpline. If he's abusive you don't have to live with him. Abuse isn't just physical and it's also abuse of the children.

jannier · 11/06/2023 11:48

WilkinsonM · 11/06/2023 10:46

This can be sorted out in the divorce. You can get a child arrangements order which specifies the time you can both take them abroad without parental agreement.

And once he has them in Iraq that doesn't count as they don't have any agreement with us as many mothers who've not seen their children for years can tell you....just don't go abroad. what's a week or two a year against losing your child?

Greenflamesburn · 11/06/2023 12:49

Woman's aid will support you through the divorce. They will help with your mental health.
Please OP get yourself and children away from the abuse 🙏

WilkinsonM · 12/06/2023 08:13

jannier · 11/06/2023 11:48

And once he has them in Iraq that doesn't count as they don't have any agreement with us as many mothers who've not seen their children for years can tell you....just don't go abroad. what's a week or two a year against losing your child?

The OP doesn't seem worried about that - but if she is, it can also be dealt with through the family court with a prohibited steps order.

gotthevibe · 12/06/2023 08:22

karisa282 · 08/06/2023 10:29

Hi my husband has been voice recording me without my consent for the last 8 years
he is from iraq and I am half Iraqi but raised in the U.K.
in April after 2 years of me asking he agreed to have another child as long as I agreed that we would visit iraq in the next few months and contribute to the bills -
yesterday he showed me the recording and I was devastated he recorded me. I told him I’m not sure about going to iraq as it’s very polluted there and his parents just came to visit us here 5 months ago but he’s adamant that we have to go there. And I should pay half the trip. If i don’t agree to Iraq he said we won’t go abroad anywhere else forever ( Spain etc ) and I will be responsible for the misery.

incident 3 days ago: I tell kids nicely at night : daddy will read you a story
he then barks : DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

i then got so upset I threatened him and I drove away and my dad had to come and speak to us . My dad said husband shouldn’t shout but husband said I provoke him as he told me many times that he doesn’t always want to read the story and I should ask him nicely.

he has kept recordings from years ago and said it’s because he doesn’t trust me ( I have autism and bpd and in the past if he said something I didn’t like I would lash out and try to take his phone away which would lead to me scratching his arm unintentionally)

I feel I am being extorted. Yesterday we had a big fight as I wanted to sleep alone in bed and I lay horizontally so there would be no room for him but he still insisted Its his bed too- then I walked out at night I bumped into his rear bumper when I found out about all his voice recordings- his car has a small chipped scratch only. I tried to take his phone away but he resisted and he shouted into the recording “ stop hitting me” but I was only trying to take phone away.

when he saw his car he rushed back in and smashed a painting off wall and chucked some of my stuff out the window.
when we were back inside he looked for the cctv footage of me bumping into his car but it did not appear but he made me admit it verbally into his voice recorder. If I didn’t he was going to call police and he did call them but hung up.

we can’t discuss divorce As he might be recording and he told me to assume that he’s always recording. I told him his recordings are inadmissible in any court but he said police can view them.
I want to leave and take kids to another part of the U.K. but I feel trapped if leave he will show the recordings to police and get custody. I’m very stressed and can’t sleep while he sleeps very well.

Keep all this you have written to Mumsnet.
I would leave to a women's refuge.
This is a nightmare.
You are very vulnerable staying with him and it's no way to live being recorded all the time. He is blackmailing you.

gotthevibe · 12/06/2023 08:26

karisa282 · 11/06/2023 10:43

If I file for divorce he’s going to see the papers arriving and be nasty so we’re going to be under the same roof while the divorce drags on which my mental state can’t handle.

Your mental health isn't going to get better with him!
Report all of this.
Get to a refuge asap.
Hide these messages/app.
Don't go abroad with him.

blackpooolrock · 12/06/2023 10:21

You should really go to the police about him and report him for his threatening and coercive behaviour.

The police will ignore any claims that you damaged the car, they will see he has been recording you and forcing you to say thins against your will and will support you in this.

As others have said - DO NOT go to Iraq with him...

Please seek further help.

karisa282 · 12/06/2023 11:30

If we divorce he might try and take them
to iraq for a holiday as part of any arrangements which I don’t like either so I will have to accompany them regardless if I stay married or not.

him wanting to go to iraq just few months after his parents have visited us here is I feel to do with wanting everyone (his parents , siblings, kids ) under the same roof which he said he doesn’t get to experience as his family is abroad ) his brother might visit the U.K. next month if his visa goes through he is more easy going than my husband.
I don’t believe husband would stay in iraq as he doesn’t have any opportunities there just his family.

OP posts:
jannier · 12/06/2023 11:33

WilkinsonM · 12/06/2023 08:13

The OP doesn't seem worried about that - but if she is, it can also be dealt with through the family court with a prohibited steps order.

Most mums who have lost children didn't consider it a risk before but once he's there you can't get them back . As the passport is out of date he can get a renewal he can get the children out on contact visits let alone if they go on holiday. Most were in employment here with lives here so mums were shocked the holiday became permanent.
Please read up on this

jannier · 12/06/2023 11:43

The UK gov website is a good starting point basically if your there of your own free will and husband does not wish to return he can keep child there if you try to leave with child you have abducted the child and can be imprisoned. One woman had managed to win through legal methods but it took years.

Toxic relationship voice recordings
Greenflamesburn · 12/06/2023 11:46

As part of the divorce you can have it written he doesn't take them out of the country. You may have to sign a similar agreement if he pushes for it. Once the children are 18 they can visit all they like, make the decision as an adult to move if they wish.
Look at it this way take them on UK holidays, and save for a big once in a life time trip abroad, with them when the youngest is 18.
How was your weekend? I hope it was mainly calm and you enjoyed the weather. Have you had a chance to follow up on any of the advice from Women's aid?

JamSandle · 12/06/2023 11:51

He sounds controlling and angry. You definitely need some support. Your child will grow up with this treatment too.

TUCKINGFYP0 · 13/06/2023 10:36

karisa282 · 12/06/2023 11:30

If we divorce he might try and take them
to iraq for a holiday as part of any arrangements which I don’t like either so I will have to accompany them regardless if I stay married or not.

him wanting to go to iraq just few months after his parents have visited us here is I feel to do with wanting everyone (his parents , siblings, kids ) under the same roof which he said he doesn’t get to experience as his family is abroad ) his brother might visit the U.K. next month if his visa goes through he is more easy going than my husband.
I don’t believe husband would stay in iraq as he doesn’t have any opportunities there just his family.

You accompanying him to Iraq does not prevent him staying there and keeping the children. He can divorce you there . That’s what all his evidence is for , it doesn’t matter in the Uk courts.

Why do you think he is doing all this recording for years , if it’s not needed to divorce you in the Uk and won’t help him get custody of the children ?

You say that he only wants to go to Iraq to have his family under one room and that he would come back to the Uk as he has a job here. You might be right . But you might be wrong. Are you willing to take that risk and lose your children for years ?

contrary13 · 13/06/2023 17:29

I suspect that your mental health is poor because you're married to this man. If not, then he's certainly exacerbating the situation - because you're giving him that power over you.

Please listen to the others (pretty much every single one who has posted!) and don't allow him to take your children to Iraq. He wants his family all under one roof - great; fine! Personally, I want world peace and equality across the globe - but that doesn't mean that I'm going to get that, does it?

If your children already have passports, please take them to someone whom you trust not to give them to your husband. In the UK, because you're married to their father, he has automatic parental responsibilities for them, so doesn't need your permission to take them out of the country - and given his underhanded methods of behaviour, if he has access to the passports, I'd not trust him to do that. One mother I know lost her son during a contentious build-up to divorce when his Middle Eastern father took him out of school early one day. He was in Iraq before his mother knew what was happening and other than when she visits once a year for a few weeks - she doesn't see her son. She's badmouthed about by the ex-husband, to their son and the older the kid gets... the more he's believing his father's lies, and their relationship is suffering. The boy's 14 now, and she says that she might only be able to see him for a few hours every other day when she visits later on this summer, because he's a teenager who wants to spend time with his friends rather than a mother he barely knows (and resents a great deal) anymore.

My oldest's biological "father" now lives in Dubai and for years - until she was 18, actually - I lived in terror of him trying to snatch her and remove her there. Even though we weren't together when she was born, he had no PR for her, and to the best of my knowledge has only seen her once in her entire life, when she was 3 weeks old (she's 27 now). I registered her birth at 4 days old, purely so that I could apply for her passport - to prevent him from doing so. He's very like your husband and I lived in dread of him taking my daughter just to spite me. Turns out, he married and had a few more kids over there - was abusive towards his wife (I know this purely because her sister tracked me down and begged to know what he'd done to me, to make me leave him - she was frantic about her sister, who isn't from the Middle East, and terrified that he was going to pull the stunt that he actually did SadAngry). She divorced him, and he was "oh, let's co-parent amicably..." - until she had to go back to Italy for an emergency with a dying relative, leaving her children with him. Over there, the father holds all of the rights over the children, and so... he kept the children; wouldn't let her have them back. Apparently she's not even permitted to see them - and they were maybe 7 and younger when she left Dubai that time - because he's told their children two things: that she abandoned them because she no longer wanted them Angry, and then, that she's died. According to the sister, he's told the ex-wife that it'd just confuse the children if she tries to see them, and that the older two (who were old enough to remember her) hate her for "running away" to her native country! I keep in touch, periodically, with the sister - hoping that my oldest's half-siblings have been told the truth (although I know him well enough to not be holding my breath over this!) and that their mother (who pretty much had a full-on breakdown when she tried to see them after burying the relative - already being upset about that loss, only to then lose her babies on top of it!) has been allowed just to see them, know how they're doing, something of that ilk. She was once very close to the rest of our shared ex's family, but they shut her out completely once this happened. And again, that doesn't surprise me. They got what they wanted - her children under their family's full control, all of hers essentially blocked from their lives. All she can do is hope that one day, her children figure out that she's not dead - and choose to see her. But again... I doubt that they will after years of his alienation and coercively abusive behaviour.

Please, @karisa282 , learn from these cautionary tales - and don't let it become your story, too. Go the police and report this abuser, take your children and run (with their passports) as far away as is humanely possible to get. Before it's too late. And when you're all safe, please divorce him and take steps to ensure that he cannot remove your children from the UK until they're adults. Chances are his plan is to divorce you and remarry over there, keeping your children as part of this plot (which his parents and he could have cooked up during their visit last month, let's be honest). But right now - you and your babies are at extreme risk of harm/separation.

karisa282 · 14/06/2023 10:34

He has a video with flash where I’m trying to get the phone off him and it looks like him hitting him

OP posts:
karisa282 · 14/06/2023 10:40

If we rented it would be easy to just leave him but how can I leave him in a house I mostly own - would I be able to sell it if he still lives there he’s not going through tidy it and make it presentable for viewings .

But getting divorced under same roof is also miserable he will become cold

i wouldn’t want him to know my new address but he’ll need it for visitation

I just worrry if she shows anyone the audios/videos and his car scratch I’ll be arrested on the spot

OP posts:
PinotPony · 14/06/2023 11:12

He's recorded you and threatened you with the police precisely because he knows the fear of the police or courts will stop you leaving. He's saying those things to control you.

I know of a woman like you whose abusive husband made her commit cheque fraud then he threatened to report her if she didn't do as he said. When she finally sought help, nobody cared about the fraud. The police could see she had been coerced and controlled.

Nobody will care about recordings of you yelling at him or trying to snatch his phone. They won't judge you for your past mental health. They won't let him take the kids to Iran. They won't let him into your new home when he sees the kids. They will help you. You just need to ask for help.

Greenflamesburn · 14/06/2023 11:20

You can apply to have him removed during the divorce. As PP says the police won't carry what he does or doesn't have recorded. The recordings will show you both in a bad light.
Please keep your head held high and carry on the path you have started to a new life for you and your children

jannier · 14/06/2023 11:39

karisa282 · 12/06/2023 11:30

If we divorce he might try and take them
to iraq for a holiday as part of any arrangements which I don’t like either so I will have to accompany them regardless if I stay married or not.

him wanting to go to iraq just few months after his parents have visited us here is I feel to do with wanting everyone (his parents , siblings, kids ) under the same roof which he said he doesn’t get to experience as his family is abroad ) his brother might visit the U.K. next month if his visa goes through he is more easy going than my husband.
I don’t believe husband would stay in iraq as he doesn’t have any opportunities there just his family.

No you have it as a risk so don't agree to any foreign holidays.. ..why are you not believing anything people are telling you? Many many women have said what you're saying and lost their children. There is a charity that supports them by paying for a one week visit a year.
It's not even a safe place for children living there.
Please do some reading.....he doesn't even have to stay there he can leave the children with his family.

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