What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

Your dream is your subconscious talking to you

I don't think I've set her up to be a people pleaser just yet.

What would you call the dynamic between you and your mother? Tolerating this man and not reminding of the scummy man she’s hitched her wagon to is the very definition of people pleasing and your DD sees this. Your DD maybe be fierce but do not underestimate the subliminal messages your dynamic with this man and your mother is teaching your daughter. The insidious way girls and women are taught to accept shitty behaviour from men and their apologists are staggering.

You were triggered by his creepy words about your daughter (duh), you're gut is reminding you that the wounds are still not healed and the price you have paid so your mum can live in her alternate reality is too damn high. Be the adult that your younger self never had and be firm that if she insists on maintaining the package deal bs of her and her creepy man, there will be consequences.

Op, I grew up in a household where creepy men (plural) were tolerated and the children were expected to deal with it without guidance or support. I could bring out a workout video on the many ways you can contort your body to avoid the wandering hands of creepy old men.

I've tolerated nothing as far as DD is concerned AgentJohnson, if you read my posts you'll see that he has not been 'creepy' towards me since DH arrived on the scene (20+ years ago) and has been kept at arms length (because he's not a very likeable person in general) by our entire family all her life so I'm not sure what shitty behaviour you think she's been taught to tolerate? He's been there in the background when we see DM but none of us engage with him , yes we 'tolerate' his presence but no one has been putting up with creepy/bad behaviour from him because there hasn't been any in DD's lifetime.

All this is about his behaviour when I was a child/teenager, triggered by the comment he made on the phone which was the first resurgence of his old behaviour in many, many years. I've taken your reply quite hard tbh, at a time when I'm already struggling because protecting DD is, and always will be, my first priority.

Hiya, just wanted to say that your post resonated with me, and I completely understand the dynamics that you describe.

I had a very similar upbringing, with a fairly emotionally immature, vulnerable mother who was left by my father when he had an affair. I ended up with a stepfather like yours. I wont go into the whole story, but a few years ago after my step father acted in a way that I couldn't cope with any longer (Mum had an operation go wrong and SD is an attention seeker, and he decided to tell me that she had died on the operating table and had to be resuscitated in front of him) and this gave me the reason I needed to cut ties with him.

I now see him when I go to the house, but I meet my Mum outside generally and we go for lunch or something.

I went through a period of being extremely angry with my Mum for her choices, I was parentified and had a lot of stress put on my shoulders, that she does now understand this - but she seems to lack the ability to understand that the reason I was so messed up by the break up is because of how she handled it, not the actual split. However, I also see how vulnerable she is, and I can't just not speak with her as that would also break my heart. So we now have half a relationship I suppose - which for me, is better than nothing. My step dad also behaved in a similar way to yours, which made me feel uncomfortable and I no longer feel bound to spending any time with him.

Thanks so much for your post chemicalworld, that's exactly how I foresee my own situation ending up, a half-relationship with DM and as little contact with him as possible. And I'm fine with that tbh, I'm finding distancing myself somewhat from DM a relief and feeling more and more as though my relationship with her has been pretty unhealthy, although I genuinely hadn't realised that prior to all this.

I can't wait to see my therapist again, hoping I can afford it in a couple of weeks but I fear an hour won't be long enough!

It probably won't and be prepared for some strong emotions to come out.

I guess it took me a few years to properly process it all and I now have a very different idea of what my relationship with my mother is now. It is sad, and I sometimes feel shit that I am a bit of a black sheep in some ways - but I have just had to accept that this is the price I pay to not have much contact with him, and i've accepted that my Mum isn't capable of being the Mum I really needed - but I still love her and care for her. (acceptance has been slow but it is there)

Sorry to come back but I'm really struggling. I'm no further forward with how/whether to tell my DM what's going on, I'm still just avoiding seeing her and going round in circles with it all. I haven't been able to afford to see the private counsellor again but my NHS talking therapy has now come through and I'm speaking to them once a week. It's CBT, which I'm not really sure is right for this scenario (and not what I thought had been agreed at my assessment tbh) and isn't really helping so far apart from some strategies to help with flashbacks and dreams/sleep.

I just feel like I need to make a decision about whether to tell DM the truth about why I don't want to see her. I'm riddled with guilt over all the anger I feel towards her for not protecting me, and then angry with myself for allowing the 'was what he did really that bad?' doubts to creep in when I know deep down how wrong it was. I swing wildly between anger at my DM and empathy for her/guilt for thinking badly of her and hurting her by withdrawing the way I have.

I just feel totally confused and conflicted still and I don't know how to move forward, I just feel stuck. Maybe I just need to give the talking therapy more time but I'm scared DM will lose patience and push me for answers before I'm ready, if it comes out in the wrong way I'm scared I'll end up feeling even worse. I know no one can tell me what to do but I'm spiralling today and hoping someone can help me calm down and see things more rationally.

Don't apologise about coming back, OP; that's what MN support is for

I'm truly sorry you're still struggling, and the the bit about "I'm scared DM will lose patience and push me for answers before I'm ready" stood out for me - possibly because you're still stuck in the stage of thinking "Oh god what will she say? What will she DO?"

Happily it's one of the more straightforward aspects to deal with, because above all else you need to remember that nobody else gets to dictate to you on this.
Personally I'd suggest a close-down response until you've decided on the way forward ... perhaps something like "I'm not ready to discuss this yet", which can handily be repeated no matter what she comes back with

In the meantime keep pushing with the therapy, and fingers crossed it helps

I second shutting it down until you are ready. A simple 'I don't want to see sd right now' without any further discussion is actually your best line. It also sends the clear message that she will not be able to sweep this one under the carpet once you are ready to discuss it, and may lead to a much better outcome when you do. It's harder to minimise something when your daughter has been shutting you down for months.

One thing to remember now and which may help you to reframe your experience is that at this point you have all the power. One reason sexual abuse (or even sexual inappropriateness of any kind, including inappropriate comments) in a family is so traumatising is that it leaves you powerless. That is no longer the case. You hold the cards. Your and your dc's relationships with her are more important to her than they are to you. That means that you can dictate the terms that the relationship will take. And if she won't accept them, it's her choice and she's the one who has done it to herself, not you.

A simple 'I don't want to see sd right now' without any further discussion is actually your best line. It also sends the clear message that she will not be able to sweep this one under the carpet once you are ready to discuss it, and may lead to a much better outcome when you do

Yes, this too. Of course it invites a tearful "But whhhyyyyy?" and that's where the "not being ready to discuss it" comes in as a catch-all backup

Nobody pretends this will be easy when someone else has been accustomed to calling the shots, but it has to stop somewhere and a very short reply ought to work providing OP doesn't allow herself to get dragged into "Yes buts ..."

How are you getting on?

Are you seeing your mum alone?

She sounds weak and pathetic but you are the adult she should have been and can call the shots!!

Yes at last you are the one with the power and he can suck eggs!!🥚🥚

And the car advert got a hugely negative response
"if this woman was a car she would run you over!"
It was NEVER acceptable.

If anyone's still reading I'd be really grateful for some support over the next few days, I posted a letter to my mum today and am awaiting a response. I do feel much stronger than I was, my therapist has been amazing and has got me to a place where I could write and send it but the next few days are going to be rough for me and DH is away with work so I'm on my own while I wait.

It is so good to read that you have reached this stage. Well done OP.
You have done the hard work with your therapist to set your thoughts and emotions straight and now you are firmly in control of the situation for yourself. That must feel good but I understand your trepidation as you wait for a reaction.
Your mum can’t pretend, minimise or brush this problem under the carpet any more. We must hope and pray she can find courage to act with decency going forward. And become more of the mum you needed all those years ago.
Stay calm and hopeful OP. You’ve come a long way. Thinking of you.

Thanks so much LAMPS1, it does feel like I've come a long way, I just hope I'm on the right path! I'm not afraid of DM's reaction I don't think, I have strategies in place to cope whatever happens, it's more that I feel sort of.....exposed now it's 'out there' in the letter if that makes sense?

I'm also considering speaking to my brother, a sort of heads up that the shit is about to hit the fan because he's at the house quite a bit and is likely to get caught in any backlash. He was also dismissive back then (when we were teenagers) but has had stuff happen in his own life more recently which mean I hope he will understand where I'm coming from. The thought of speaking to him is making me really anxious though, I'm just not sure whether that's because it's a bad idea or whether I just need to get it over with so it's not hanging over me.

Well done on sending the letter and it's good that you feel you can cope with your mum's reaction whatever it might be.

I'd question whether you need to speak to your brother at all, especially as it seems to be stressing you out. It's got nothing to do with him, even if your mum tries to drag him into it. Why do you feel you need his understanding? (that's rhetorical, something for you to mull over/talk to therapist about)

Well done Rich, I've been thinking about you these last weeks. I applaud your bravery. 👏👏👏

So brave of you , hope all goes well . Respect !!

Thank you, feel like I've pretty much shut down these last few days, just been going through the motions, like being on autopilot DM will have received the letter now and it's been radio silence so far, which is fine (I asked for her to take some time to process what I'd said before she replied) but it does feel like I'm holding my breath while I wait for her response. I feel relieved too though, like I've given this whole shitty situation back to them (DM and SF) to deal with, which seems fair enough since I didn't cause any of it.

Decided not to speak to DB, you were right user9989820190, it was making me anxious and I don't need his understanding. I feel fairly calm most of the time, you would all have been proud of the final draft of my letter and it's literally down to DM deciding if she can accept my terms now, I've been crystal clear about what they are and I won't be budging.

Well done @Richandstrange - you’ve come a long way since your first post. Whatever your DM comes back with, know that you’re fully in the right and your uncomfortable feelings are justified.
Stand firm.

So the conversation happened, finally! I've been ill and contact has been minimal with DM but she called today and we talked and it was, to my immense surprise, fine There was a bit of minimising and she did, fairly halfheartedly, try to defend him but I shut that down straight away (you would all have been proud!) and didn't really leave her with anywhere left to go tbh.

She agreed with no argument to see me alone and hasn't kicked up a fuss about things having to be different going forward, which I really thought she would so it feels like so far so good I don't think I'm completely out of the woods yet, it's unlikely she'll be able to resist picking at the scab at some point but I'm prepared for that and it transpires I'm much better at shutting it down than I expected, even I was proud of how I handled today's conversation!

So that's my update, I feel relieved and like a weight has lifted but also stronger and more determined to hold my boundaries than I think I ever have. Thank you to everyone who helped me along the way on here, between you lot and the therapist i feel like I've come a long way since I started this thread and am finally coming out the other side, I couldn't have done it without you

Amazing update! Well done you!

So pleased to hear about this progress you have been able to make with your DM and to know you feel much stronger and in control at last. That must have been quite a powerful letter you put together.
A much more promising new year ahead of you now. Best wishes OP !

That is great to hear. Well done you!

Really well done! The thing about boundaries is that they get a lot easier to enforce the more that you enforce them. You sound as though you are building resilience and should hopefully be able to deal with anything further that arises out of this situation.