What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

I just wanted to say I think you're going brilliantly OP. I really do urge you getting support to help with the next step. Confronting your own childish box of one parent = good/one = bad (and I don't mean for a moment that you're childish but it's a way we make sense of things as children which we carry into adulthood) is hard.

Tipping out the box that you hold your vision of who you and your family in and giving it a good kick is emotionally very difficult but ultimately enormously rewarding.

I promise you that once you've done it and talked to your mum (even if she hasn't seemed to hear you), it will make you feel much stronger.

As you can probably tell, I've had to deal with similar issues (although not as difficult) and therapy was hard work but has been an absolute revelation.

I wish you all good things

ShovellyJoe I identify with so much of what you've posted, I'm so sorry you're in a similar position. And you're not hijacking, my thread is your thread Ugh, your fil sounds utterly rancid, I wonder if men like him realise that women can practically smell the sleaze coming off them. My sd doesn't even bother with the 'loveable rogue' act, he just comes over as weird and creepy and completely socially inept. I have no idea what my DM ever saw in him, I can only think she must have genuinely believed no one else would want her.

But you describe the way it makes us feel, and the family dynamic that stops us speaking out, so well. I think we understand each other and if you ever need someone to vent to you're very welcome to message me.

I'm struggling a bit tonight, DM rang earlier asking about meeting up again and piling on the guilt over how long it's been. I think she can sense there's something wrong because she's ramping up the pressure and emotional blackmail. She ended up asking whether she was the only one bothered that we haven't seen each other and I had to pretend DH was calling me and I had to go so I didn't have to answer her.

I would have just told her and got it over with but I want to wait until I know he's out doing the garden or something and she can speak freely. It needs to be soon though, I can't take her pressuring me on top of everything else.

Likewise, you can always message me if you need a friendly ear.

Don't be pressured into blurting it out on the phone. You'll just feel worse and it won't go how you want. It must be frustrating and feel like mounting pressure, but not doing something isn't always inaction iyswim. You're waiting. You are doing something.

Sorry to resurrect this but (predictably if you knew me) I'm no further forward and probably need a sharp talking to if anyone feels inclined. When I last posted I was determined I was going to talk to DM, tell her the truth about why I'm avoiding seeing them and set new boundaries to avoid him as much as possible. Since then I've talked myself out of, and then back into, it a dozen times and am just back to feeling completely confused again now.

I've been trying to work out what I'm so afraid of and, rather than it being any of the 'bigger' things like losing my relationship with DM, all I keep coming back to is the thought of her defending him, minimising it and making me feel stupid and dramatic. And that thought is unbearable to me, it makes me feel hot and sick and panicky and so I just keep chickening out and trying to convince myself that there must be another way to deal with this. I know the truth is there isn't another way, so how the hell do I get past that panic feeling and force myself to do it?

I know it probably goes back to her reacting exactly that way when I tried to tell her as a teenager, and I 100% know that she will react exactly the same way this time, she's already proving it. She's obviously picked up that there's something not right with me atm and kept asking what was wrong so I told her my MH isn't great right now (true) and that I don't really feel up to seeing anyone, trying to buy myself some time really. She said that shouldn't apply to her ('but I'm your mum!') and I said no, but that I'm not as close to him and seeing her means seeing him so I was finding that difficult. Don't think she knew what to say at the time but the next two phone calls after that she spent the entire time telling me how wonderful he was, like she was trying to make a point, so that pretty much tells me which way the wind will blow if I do tell her doesn't it?

Weirdly, the idea of not having her in my life anymore doesn't actually bother me that much. But the idea that she will think I'm pathetic making all this fuss over an inappropriate comment, that she will think/say I'm overreacting and dramatic, that she will cast me as the problem, the reason for us not being 'one big happy family' and an awful daughter for 'doing this to her in her old age', well that just makes me want to curl up and die. Why is that thought so awful to me? I just feel like if I could work that out then maybe I could get past it, as it is I just feel paralysed.

You can only do this in your own time and at your own speed, @Richandstrange. I think you should be proud of the progress you have made - recognising the issue and discussing it on here are massive steps.

I haven't posted but have read this thread from the beginning. It is entirely natural to want to avoid the feeling of abandonment and gaslighting your mom's comments had caused you when you were a child, OP. That was a deep hurt, a betrayal. Your soul recoils from the very idea of potentially experiencing it again.

As for you mom and how to communicate your decision to her (when YOU are good and ready!): recently, I saw a tv movie and a line stuck with me from a scene: "This family needs to learn the difference between an announcement and a discussion."
Well, so does your DM. You have made a decision and announced it to her. This is no discussion.
Hugs, OP. Lean on your DH for reassurance if you feel like it, post here, but at every point please know you are doing everything right, and you are not to blame. For any of this.

I keep coming back to is the thought of her defending him, minimising it and making me feel stupid and dramatic

You're wiser than you know, OP, because clearly you realise that's likely to be exactly what she'll do - the pre-emptive carrying on about how wonderful he is just goes to prove it

But here's the thing: absolutely nobody has the power to make you feel any given way ... that remains your own choice, though it can be made easier by delivering
your message and refusing to engage further on the subject

Just wondering if it would be any use writing it all to her instead of speaking? She may not react well whatever you do, but at least that would keep you out of the immediate emotion, and also avoid being shouted down, distracted by tears, etc.

"She said that shouldn't apply to her ('but I'm your mum!') "
That just shows she doesn't respect your boundaries. Boundaries are for everyone, mums don't get to trample over their adult children's (although some of them have a good old crack at it anyway).

Stay strong and do it when you are ready. Would it help to be "accountable" to someone, be that your husband, a friend, a counsellor? Someone that will stop you running away from doing it and who can be supportive.

Or alternatively could you write her a letter? The advantage of that is that you get to say everything you want to without interruption and to set out your "terms" (e.g. that you will only see her on her own). That can be quite powerful particularly with someone where you don't feel heard normally.

The stuff in your last paragraph is all to do with boundaries. You can't control what she will think or feel or do but you can decide that it doesn't matter that much. Are any/all of the things likely to happen? If so she doesn't sound very emotionally mature. I mean for example you're not and never have been "one big happy family" by the sounds of it but denial runs very strong in some families.

Your soul recoils from the very idea of potentially experiencing it again

Yes, that's exactly how it feels, thank you for putting it into words when I couldn't. DH is away with work til Friday and I really wish he wasn't, he's being amazing even just by phone but I'm a total mess tbh.

Of course that’s so awful to you ! Because it would bring back all these same feelings you had as a child. Even though as an adult you know that your mother was and is wrong about the abuse and who is responsible for it. You have ever right to feel and think the way you do.

One great strength you have is that you are not looking to her for love and support or even validation . So at least you are prepared for her reaction.

I was in a similar situation to you and I ended up sending a letter ( rightly or wrongly ). I had to be very general as she is the kind of person who would threaten legal action if I’d said anything specific.

My mother of course demanded proof / times and dates / witnesses etc and wanted to have a knock down drag out fight about it. She wanted the change to “ prove me wrong “, which would mean yelling abuse at me for long enough until I broken down and apologised.

I wasn’t going to do that so I went NC.

It improved my mental health a great deal.

I think I'm realising that no, she's really not very emotionally mature at all user9989820190, and quite controlling now I come to properly examine her behaviour. She wouldn't see it that way of course and would be 'devastated' if she read what I've posted about her, although that devastation would actually take the form of emotional manipulation and making herself the victim if I'm really honest with myself.

I think the next stage of this is probably me accepting that there's zero chance that she will react the way I would like and finding a way to come to terms with that. It's the fact that I know she will cut her own nose off to spite her face and make any sort of relationship with her impossible once it's out in the open. She might grudgingly agree to see me alone but she won't be able to resist trying to invalidate my feelings and talk me round to her way of thinking so there's no way this won't completely ruin our relationship.

How the fuck do you come to terms with suddenly seeing your parent in a totally new light at the age of 48? It's like she's become someone else in my head these last few weeks and it just keeps getting worse the more I dig into it. I honestly thought I had an amazing DM, that I was really lucky to have her and that we were genuinely close, how have I ended up here off the back of one comment from him?

How the fuck do you come to terms with suddenly seeing your parent in a totally new light at the age of 48? It's like she's become someone else in my head these last few weeks and it just keeps getting worse the more I dig into it. I honestly thought I had an amazing DM, that I was really lucky to have her and that we were genuinely close, how have I ended up here off the back of one comment from him?

Youve had a “ through the looking glass “ moment and you can’t go back. Now you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it.

I can only speak from my own experience . I “ thought “ I had amazing parents , because they had spent my whole life telling me this, I was completely brainwashed.

It took me 10 years from first thinking that perhaps these was a problem with this story to finally realising it wasn’t the truth, it was spin. Just like Boris “ no lockdown rules have been broken “ Johnson. All smoke and mirrors. I believed the PR.

Those 10 years were filled with great unhappiness and huge psychological distress. Because although my head believed the spin, my heart / soul / body knew it was all lies . I was struggling in myself to deal with my mothers behaviour and having to live a lie in my own head.

Because it didn’t FEEL like a had wonderful childhood and a close relationship with my mother. It felt like a total head fuck, living with her constant undermining, snide comments and her telling everyone what a bad daughter I was and a total disappointment to them etc

so when I had my “ through the looking glass “ realisation it was as if everything now made sense. My parents verbal abuse and manipulation of me as an adult was just a continuation of the different types of abuse I experienced as a child.

although it was hugely distressing , I wasn’t at war with myself anymore . It was devastating yet freeing. Because I knew she would never change, so I had only two options

1. Try to adjust the relationship to one that would minimise distress to myself ( that would need her cooperation )
2. Go NC.

As I said above , she wouldn’t have agree to 1, so it became 2. So the Nc was ultimately her choice not mine.

Sorry I’m not sure that was clear .

I didn’t suddenly see my parents in a new light. Deep down, I knew all along, I was lying to myself for years to please them and making myself mentally and physically ill. It was the only way I knew how to survive as a child.

As an adult I had options. I could admit the truth my myself and live in the light. It just took me years to realise that.

There's much more stuff coming up for me about DM than I'm posting here, I'm struggling to not write essays as it is but through the looking glass is spot on and it feels like nothing is as it seemed anymore.

I don't know if I've always known deep down how fucked up my family is but it would certainly explain some things. I've had substance abuse issues on and off since my teens and have actively questioned (well before the recent issues) why I don't enjoy spending time with DM when I'm supposed to love her and regard us as close. If, like you, I've been lying to myself all this time maybe that's why I find her such difficult company, and maybe even why I've needed to self medicate.

DH and I have agreed tonight that I need to find a therapist asap because I just feel like I keep uncovering new layers of shit and it's too much to cope with on my own.

So sorry this is proving to be such a difficult process of discovery, it sounds like you're allowing yourself to really look at some things for the first time. It must be painful, I'm so glad you have a supportive husband and daughter.

Seconding the suggestion to - if/when you feel you want to - write a letter to your mum rather than doing it face to face. My mum is very different to yours in some ways but also emotionally immature and defensive, anything she sees as an "attack" (which could be anything from more serious things to recalling a family water fight) she will just go very cold, deny, swear black is white and be angry. No listening is happening. Give her something on paper/by email on the other hand and the less "adrenaliney" part of her brain can come back to it and digest it better over time.

DH and I have agreed tonight that I need to find a therapist asap because I just feel like I keep uncovering new layers of shit and it's too much to cope with on my own

that’s a great idea, I found counselling very helpful. Although the whole process of talking about these forbidden things was very traumatic. Each time I felt like I was reliving it again and I needed several days to recover.

My advice is to prepare for this - you might feel worse before you feel better. Don’t arrange any thing after a counselling session , except going home and relaxing / sleeping / going out for a run / whatever you do when you are shocked and traumatised. Don’t do it before a tough day at work, for example.

Resist the urge to drink a bottle of wine as well. Only take a drink if you know you can moderate it. You need to be able to feel the feelings.

Gosh I realise I’m not selling counselling / therapy very well 😕. But it does help in the long run. Honest.

YY to the substance misuse / eating disorder / other forms of self harm / self medicating . It’s classic . Your body has always known what’s going on, it keeps the score. No wonder you had to shut it up.

Im sorry , I know how hard this is. You feel like everything is destabilised and that you can’t trust your own memories, feelings or judgment anymore ☹️

@Richandstrange the advice from @Outdamnspot23 is EXACTLY what I came on here to post. Even the act of writing it will be helpful for you. You can then send it, she will get it within a couple of days and the ball is then in her Court. If she doesn't respond, you have your answer. If she rings and doesn't refer to it, you can ask "DM did you get my letter?" and she will either have to lie and say no in which case you can resend or she will say yes and you can say "well then you know how I'm feeling and why we won't be meeting up" or whatever.

Best of luck with all of this 🌺

I do like the letter idea, I just don't have any faith that time to digest what I've said will change her reaction tbh. However I tell her I'm still going to have to listen to her defend, minimise and make herself the victim when she does respond and I think that's why I'm struggling so much with just doing it.

I've found a therapist, first appointment early next week so that's a step forward. I'd done a fair bit of research and found four I thought were worth ringing but tbh I went with the first one I spoke to, she sounded really down to earth and on my wavelength so I'm hoping I've struck lucky.

I know it's not going to be easy, I haven't had therapy before but have a fair idea what to expect. DH is (thankfully) on a local job next week so I won't be alone afterwards. There's so much on this thread that's been helpful, my head's too scrambled to pick up on individual points in my posts but I'm reading it all and it's helping more than any of you realise so thank you, I'm hugely grateful.

The letter's not an attempt to change her reaction. It's to give you the space to say everything you want to without interruption (or being expected to deal with her reaction). You cannot control what she'll do but you can choose how you engage (or don't) with her response. You don't have to listen to her defend, minimise, whatever. You can tell her to shut up if you want, or walk away/put the phone down.

Of course you may decide that a letter is not how you want to go about this and that's fine too.

I'm glad you have found a therapist - a decent one will support you in figuring out what you want to do and say and in dealing with whatever the consequences of that are. I had an absolute kickass one who supported me in enforcing boundaries against a controlling and abusive family member and totally backed me every step of the way.

I wish you luck. It's not an easy thing to go into therapy, it takes guts, respect to you for starting the ball rolling.

I have just read the thread OP and nothing to add except well done for starting the ball rolling, it might be hard but you will get to where you need to be. So glad your DH and dd are there for you,
I think a letter is a good idea, gives you time to find the words and of course you dont have to face any denials, defending or interruptions.

Not much in the way of progress if anyone was wanting an update, therapist was good but only had one session so far, still struggling to keep DM at arms length and unscramble the mess that's in my head. New pieces of the jigsaw keep slipping into place which I'm finding difficult, I realised today that I'm not the first person to distance themselves from DM because of him, other family members have done the same.

There was a weird fallout between DM and my uncle (her DB) in the couple of years before DGM died, everyone thought at the time it was because he (my uncle) didn't want to share the workload of caring for DGM but I've remembered a couple of things that were said by other family members now, put two and two together and yes, you've guessed it, SD said something inappropriate to my uncle's wife. My uncle died not too long back and only reconciled with DM in his final couple of months, so SD robbed her of her last few years with her DB which for some reason has made me unbelievably angry.

And not just with SD, how could DM let him do so much damage and still stay with him?!! And I think she knew, even though she pretended to me and everyone else in the family that she didn't know why her DB had fallen out with her, I'm convinced she knew exactly why. I think she knows, or at least suspects, that he's at the root of the issue with me too. I think I gave enough away when I said I was struggling with not being able to see her without him for her to recognise the pattern, because I suspect it's happened time and time again over the years with various friends and acquaintances.

So I basically feel like I just keep uncovering more shit, and all the time DM is refusing to respect the boundaries I'm trying to set, so that's fun. I've told her I'm not up to discussing anything emotional when she rings, that I just need to keep things light and chatty and still she keeps pushing and telling me how hard she's finding it all! I don't know how on earth I'd never noticed how selfish she is. Next therapy session on Tuesday, can't come soon enough tbh.

Hi,
Delurking to say that I’m undergoing a similar journey right now, different scenario but also involving a painful new understanding of my childhood and who my mum is, and what matters to and drives her, and consequently who I’ve become.

It’s like pulling at a series of threads that unravel you and everything you ever thought you knew and based your life on, and who you’ve become.

I’m a while into this but only three weeks into weekly therapy. First week I felt my lowest and most desperate and hopeless. Second week I still felt despondent and overwhelmed and like life could never be good again. Week 3 I feel different, and full of acceptance and hope - not solved by any means, but feeling up to the right ongoing challenge and actually excited about where it will take me. I’m doing Internal Family Systems therapy.

My scenario is different from yours but I hope it can offer you some hope at least. I wish you all the best.

Sorry to resurrect the thread but just woken up from a horrible dream where he was standing over my bed, all this is really fucking with my head. The weirdest thing was DM was standing behind him, can't get away from her even in my dreams now!

I haven't been posting as I've just felt like I'm in limbo, we've had a bit of a financial disaster so haven't been able to see the therapist again yet although I feel like I really need to tbh. DM is still calling daily but she has at least stopped asking to see me, for now anyway.

I still can't face the idea of telling her what's going on, I feel like a total coward but I just can't do it. I don't think I've ever felt so....emotionally uncomfortable (if that even makes sense) in my life, I'm usually pretty good at sitting with unpalatable feelings but this is just making me squirm so much I just want to hide until it all goes away. Sorry to vent but I'm hoping if I can get it all out I might be able to sleep again, that dream has really unsettled me and DH is away with work again.

I'd not seen this post until now op but I've just read your previous comment.

You don't have to make a decision or have a confrontation unless you want to. You can choose to not see your mother and reserve the right to tell her exactly why at a later date if or when you feel ready to . It's your choice , it may not feel like it but you are in charge here. Of wether you talk to your mother, or don't talk to her, of wether you chose to see her, you can tell her why but you don't have to (and she probably knows why)

The dream must have been frightening, look after yourself to day. Be kind to yourself. You are doing the best you can and that is enough.

Hi OP,
I was having a very similar problem to you. I’d gone LC in order to avoid the inevitable nuclear fallout of having a conversation that really needed to be had. I was having very vivid, very angry dreams. Th is was ongoing for about 4 years.
Once the inevitable happened, and I finally told my mum exactly what I was feeling, what I’d experienced, how she’d facilitated my abuse etc. and made it explicitly clear that I wanted no contact and to break the familial cycle of abuse by protecting my children, I stopped having the dreams. I feel lighter. I don’t feel the burden of guilt.
I’m not saying you should have it out with her. I’m just sharing my experience.
Could you contact your GP in order to access NHS funded counselling?