What the fuck am I going to do?

[Richandstrange]

I have posted about this before (under another name) but things feel like they're coming to a head now and I still have no idea what to do. Basically my stepdad was a creepy perv around me when I was growing up and my DM turned a blind eye and dismissed me when I tried to raise it with her. I've pushed it down inside me for years and 'tolerated' him for the sake of my relationship with DM but he recently said something to me on the phone which has brought it all back to the surface and left me unable to stand speaking to or being in the same room as him.

This is getting difficult with DM now, I haven't seen her for weeks (she lives 10 minutes drive away) and she's obviously questioning why and badgering me to get together. But they come as a package (both retired) and I genuinely don't think I can be around him, the thought makes me feel physically ill. And I can't tell her what he said because she'll minimise and defend him and I will feel even worse than I already do.

I'm not sure why I've reacted as strongly as I have, probably because what he said involved my teenage daughter, but it's like I literally can't pretend everything's ok anymore. If I'm honest part of me wants to walk away from the pair of them, I'm almost as angry with DM as I am with him for dismissing me all those years ago but we've always been close despite all that and I'm not sure I can do that to her now, she's in her 70's and not in the best of health. I also think I will be made out to be hysterical, she has very different views to me about (for example) the Me Too movement and historical SA cases in the media and I know she will think I'm making something out of nothing.

I know it must look like an easy fix, go NC and don't look back but that would utterly devastate my DM and, despite everything I've written here, I'm not sure I can do that to her, she's been a good mum in lots of other ways. I feel so stressed about it all I'm genuinely worried about my MH and the pressure to see DM is mounting, I just feel like it's all approaching boiling point and I have no idea what to do.

@Richandstrange

That's a great step!

It's really scary to start probing these deep & formative experiences and yes, will be painful.

But going on in a situation that's not authentic is also untenable & ultimately, causes more pain.

Good luck with the appointment.

This is heartbreaking as I was in a similar situation many years ago, although it was a cousin and uncle, and my aunt who couldn’t seem to see what was happening, I loved her to bits but couldn’t shake off what they had done.

NC is a horrible thing, I have done it before and thought about the person every single day, it’s a torment and if it is your mother then even more so.

No real advice to give sadly, but sending you my best wishes - what a creep by the way, thank God times are different and this type of behaviour is no longer tolerated X

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius that was a very moving post - I'm so sorry you had those experiences. I went through something similar, and my mother unfortunately added to the pain, not only in childhood but throughout my life, by insinuating it was my fault.

I've only begun to recognise how my abusive marriage had its origins in that sense of shame.

I'm glad you are in a good place now.

There's "mistakes and compromises" and then there's actively minimising and failing to protect your child from abuse. Yes, times were different then and much worse for women, but that in no way means OP or anyone else who's experienced this has to minimise the impact on themselves or give their (our) mothers a get-out-of-jail card. We can recognise our mothers were a victim of circumstance in some ways while still doing ourselves the service of saying no, I won't pretend I can dismiss this or that it was OK, she did fail me in a big way and she deserves to be held accountable. Why should OP and others in this situation be the only ones to suffer just to save everyone else's feelings?

Hands up every mother reading this who has never made a mistake and never made a compromise

This isnt one mistake though is it? this is a decision she has made year after year after year and is still making now, not understanding why OP wont spend time with both of them with her daughter coming too. This isnt a mistake, its an ongoing pattern of harmful minimising, denial and thinking the OP is being histrionic. You are very wrong to describe it as a mistake when its an ongoing pattern.

@Richandstrange try not to panic about the appointment. They're unlikely to be trying a deep dive into your psyche at the first meeting. This is just going to be preliminary stuff, scouting out why you made the request, whether talking therapy is most appropriate for you etc; you may even be a little disappointed with the initial call because it won't go very far to start with.

Remember, you are in control here. There's no law that says you have to tell them absolutely everything. Go at the pace that's most comfortable for you. Meanwhile think of all the people here you don't even know who are rooting for you!

Thank you, that's a really helpful post and I do feel calmer about it now. DD is here now and I feel like I need a break from thinking about it all so we're off for a long walk with the dog somewhere pretty. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the support here, thank you all.

I had an uncle like that. Wanker.

At some point soon meet her for a coffee and letting her know you have to leave soon - repeat the words he said and the relationship of the words to dd (without saying his name).

Say - these words come from a mind that I want nothing to do with. The person who said these words has said them for years to me. This person, from this moment on has no place in my life.

You and I can meet alone.

I know you will need to think about this. I will give you time.

Stand up and walk away.

If you do not mention his name at any point - you do not accuse him of anything and she cannot tie you up in knotts.

But - you need to land it quickly and leave.

Practise out loud before you go - loads. It will be emotionally charged for you.

You really need to warn dd.

OP - I have noticed over the years that families that have a dynamic like your fmialy of birth often ends with the kids protecting/looking after the adult (emotionally).

Upthread you said as much - you lot tried to keep close to her while keeping him at arms length. Or that you have tried to understand your mum over the years ( I will bet many hours went down that drain).

I would suggest that it is now time to retrain your brain - stop trying to understand mum.

Try to shift your focus from understanding to accpetance of her life and her decisions and leave it there. It is afterall in the past. Everytime you catch yourself pondering - pivot to "I have to accept it, that was/is her life". Move on to YOU. Something lovely that is entirely you - nice memories of you and dd, a well done to yourself for making decisions that were different from your mum, so on.

I believe that if we want to stop a behaviour or retrain the brain we can. We need to create a different path - let the path be you, and let it be a nice one.

It wil take time.

You are an expert in looking after your mum, you have doing doing it so long your expertise has turned into instinct.

Same, and it lead me also into an abusive relationship with someone I now have two children with. Unfortunately, my mother just wants to ignore my concerns about my father. Now she's ill so I don't want to upset her further so I tolerate him but I feel on guard and like I could scream at him any moment but I just stand there at a distance and make polite conversation. I don't let my children spend time with them both alone (only her) and they cant stay overnight there and considering I'm a single parent and live close by, this makes it very hard. I'm sorry that you have had to deal with similar and so many others on this thread have.

Had my appointment today, nice lady but an 18 week wait for any further help, which I suppose was to be expected. Useful in that having to explain it all helped me gather my thoughts and pinpoint exactly what I'm struggling with but it hasn't really left me any clearer on what to do next. Am researching private therapy but not finding it easy to figure out what kind of therapist I need so will have to make some calls on Monday.

DD has dropped a bit of a bombshell tonight though, apparently my niece (several years older than DD) has made some comments in the past which might indicate she has also been uncomfortable around him. So now I have to decide what to do about that too and it feels like the more I dig into this the more shit I'm uncovering. But I am coming round to the idea that it has to be uncovered, and that I am going to have to have this out with DM at some point, I'm realising that I can't, and shouldn't, protect her.

OP, it’s incredibly brave and well done for taking that step, it isn’t easy I’m sure but you’re doing the right thing.

Your DM does know it was wrong, she just thinks by pretending it’s no big deal it will disappear.

Can you have a summit with your brother about this? As your niece has also been involved? Perhaps with your DH and his DW too as people less conditioned to put your mum’s feelings first?

It sounds like you are someone who is very self aware, and very brave. No easy answers but I wish you well in facing up to this and bringing tangled issues into the sunlight. Professional support will I think be helpful. 💐

It’s up to your (adult?) niece and her DF (your DB) what action they choose to take or not - that’s their boundary and privilege.

You don’t need them to justify or defend your decision.

Be simple, calm and straight with your DM. This is the issue and this is the consequence - only seeing her one to one.

Not up for debate. Ball is then in her court. She will protest. She might take some time to come round. Treat it like weather - it will pass in time and she will make her decision - but you do not need to expend emotional energy convincing her or defending you decision. Just wait it out. If she is a good mother she will eventually come through - it might take months - if she doesn’t - then it speaks volumes.

You seem scared to calmly lay it out for her?

So sorry (though not surprised) to hear that others may be involved in this too, Richandstrange

I'm not sure how old your neice is, and it's true that - if of a suitable age - what to do about this has to be her decision, or her own mum's if she's a minor.
However it moves closer the obvious wisdom of cutting the main offender out of your life, and might even provide encouragement for others to do the same

Niece is early 20's and I just meant I need to decide whether to speak to her about it, of course any action would be her decision. And you're right GloriousD, I don't need anyone to justify my position, I am realising that.

I have been baulking at the thought of calmly laying it out for DM yes but had a long talk with DH last night and feel like I've come up with a way I feel comfortable with. It's very much along the lines of 'this is how it is, take it or leave it' so think I'm on the right track.

This from Puzzledandpissedoff 'However it moves closer the obvious wisdom of cutting the main offender out of your life, and might even provide encouragement for others to do the same' is exactly where I've landed after hearing what DD said about my niece. This is not a man I want around DD or myself and I have to do what's necessary to ensure he isn't, and put my niece in the picture so she can choose whether to do the same. Feel like I've come a long way since I first posted so thank you all again for helping me work through it.

Sounds like you have some clarity and more confidence of your convictions.

You could send your DM a text - take out all emotional language:

these are the facts,
this is our decision,
these are your options,
not up for negotiation or discussion,
make your choice in your own time

Then close down every attempt to draw you in. Respond couple of times with appropriate cut and paste sections from your original message to any questions and then stop responding.

Ball is in her court.

This doesn’t need to be dramatic or histrionic. You are calmly laying out how contact will be going forward.

I hope you feel you have some agency here and that it gives you some sense of control and power.

Can't text, she does have a mobile but struggles to use it and rarely switches it on, that's how I got stuck with speaking to him in the first place, I have to ring the landline. But yes, your template is pretty much what I've settled on, I'll just have to do it in a phone call rather than text. Factual and unemotional is exactly the tone I'm going for, and a clear statement of the outcome I want, the rest is up to her.

I do feel I have agency now yes, this thread and the conversations I've had with the talking therapies counsellor, my DH and DD have all helped bolster me and I do feel like I'm taking back control. I know there's going to be more work to do once the initial situation with DM is sorted, our relationship will likely not be the same so that will need navigating and I will be going forward with the NHS therapy I've been offered once I reach the top of the waiting list. So it's not over yet, but at least I feel like I can breath again for now.

Meant to say I haven't discounted private therapy, I'm still researching and may still give it a try but it doesn't feel so urgent now. I hope I'm not overestimating myself by feeling I'm managing this ok without professional help for now and would rather take my time and find the right therapist. Feel free to tell me if anyone thinks that's a mistake!

I think you are doing great.

Maybe write down what you want to say to her and practice it out loud before you call.

Also have the paper near the phone and stick to the script.

Maybe also decide what you are not going to say, what you won’t get drawn on and have some phrases to quickly, calmly close down push back and also choose how and when to end the call.

Expect her to be upset, to take some time to come to terms with it etc.

You could follow up with a simple note if needed.

Decide on your intention and tone ahead. You might decide you don’t want to be too punishing to her because you want to be open to a one to one relationship going forward.

I hope it goes well for you and that in time you have a much better relationship with her out of the grip of sleazy step dad

Do you think a letter might work @Richandstrange ? She’s of a generation that used to communicate by letter a lot, and it gives her no opportunity to interrupt or pretend not to understand or hear.

OP, you are managing this so brilliantly. I know you must feel wretched at even having to confront this and it will be bound up in so much grief, sadness and anger because you're carrying your own feelings, your child's, your mother's and now those of your niece. And you knew you had to act because it felt so wrong when it all got brought up again but now you are tied to the rocket in order to protect your family, including your own child.

I can understand a little bit I think. Not quite the same but I've always struggled with FIL. I met DH when I was a teen and FIL was a man in his 40s. There were looks and comments, squeezes whilst hugging hello, with a groan and a shudder in my ear. ,That sort of lecherous shit. I navigated it as best as I could and in the whirlwind of us moving away for uni and then work, marriage and children, they were sort of in the background and I kept out of the way at family events. It was okay. Ish. Until years later when DH was deployed abroad and FIL kept coming round to "help" ostensibly. All looked very normal and he was looking out for his DIL and two young grandchildren. But his comments had an edge and he'd try and cuddle me in front of the children and tell them "ooh I like it when mummy squirms". I could feel he was aroused iyswim. I think I sort of felt how you described in your op. My reaction was visceral. I felt shaky and angry and like I was on a precipice. I also felt trapped by my love for MIL, my wider family, my DH. I started thinking I couldn't stand by and do nothing but was in such turmoil about what to do. FIL was the head of the family, adored, a good man, complete flirt and lovable rogue of course. I knew I wouldn't be believed or it'd somehow backfire. I couldn't see how to do it.

I confided in a family friend who knew all of us but who I trusted implicitly. She admitted that FIL had made a pass at her 20yrs ago and she'd never been alone with him again and had cried about it a lot over the years. The very same week, DD confided in me that Grandad kept making comments about her growing up, her teen body, had tried to tickle her. He'd asked her if she'd had any sexual experiences yet.

I haven't seen FIL since, apart from at a family wedding. DD has possibly seen him twice I think at big family events when I've been "working". DH knows and kept DD by his side. She never visits then alone. DH is supportive. He says he follows my lead in this and that if we make a stand, we do it together.

But MIL and FIL are in their late 60s, MIL is dependent on him. She's jealous and protective and prone to defending him even in unrelated situations. I've realised it's because, on some level, she knows. DH remembers vague situations as a child where she was "jealous" and "accusatory" and I think she knew. Knows. She must, right?

I apologise for unpacking it on here. But I thought I'd try and show you the parallels. I know how hard it is. If it were only my relationship at stake, it'd be simple. But it isn't. And it's suffocating and anger making. Because as a woman, a mother, how dare we be put in this situation? How dare a man in a position of trust, abuse it? And fuck me, but do you feel weak for standing by and acting in a cowardly way. Because that's how it feels. You wouldn't ever have accepted it from somebody else. You wouldn't have been scared of the fall out. It makes me sick. I could cry sometimes. Because I can see in my head what would happen. Me, the joyless feminist and DD, the awkward teen. FIL, the lovable rogue who meant no harm. Except he's a lech, a misogynist, entitled, disgusting. Yeah, I know where it would all lead. There is no solution.

So we stay away and we live our lives and I support DH who never even questioned me for a second and has supported whatever I want to do. And what I can do is make the best of my life and protect the people who I love. DH sees his parents lots. I meet MIL for coffee. Sometimes I think she knows why I've pulled away. I phone. I text. I see my BILs and SILs. I've just drawn careful lines.

You are strong and navigating through this in the way that is right for you. Don't second guess yourself. Counselling will help and I hope it comes round quickly or you find a private option. I'm sorry it's so hard for you. You are doing a good job.

That’s so grim @ShovellyJoe

I am so sorry that you and your DD have been sexually harassed / assaulted in this way by your FIL.

It seems he is a prolific predator if the first person you mentioned it to opened up.

I don’t know why his / your MIL discomfort trumps his ongoing sexual predation of women.

I think your DH needs to speak out - for your DD and you.

You DD needs to see a role model calling this out.

EVERYBODY already knows about him.

I've obviously left out a lot as it's not my thread. I've tested the water. I know how the family would react. We would be ostracised. Blamed. It wouldn't work out in any of the ways I wanted it to.

And I can't tell you the utter misery and shame in knowing that what I'm doing is tantamount to collusion. It's what he's counted on I assume. He's just a randy old, cheeky bugger and from a different generation and didn't mean anything by it and what's wrong with being a red blooded male, eh? The line would be if DD wanted me to act. She has been very clear. She wants me to keep her away, she wants me to keep her safe. She doesn't want the fall out of her Dad having to walk away from his family. So I've kept her safe. She's nearly an adult in everything but the date on the calendar. She knows that we will act in a heartbeat but she doesn't want or need that.

Sorry OP. I won't hijack your thread but know that I understand in some small part.