This is destroying me and my relationship and I don't know what to do.

[DownAtMySpotInTheGarden]

I've never really had relationships. I've dated but nothing really of any significance.

A few months ago, my boyfriend asked if I'd wear sexy underwear in bed. Nothing outrageous just the usual stocking etc. I've never been asked that before and it's really shocked how it's made me feel about myself and the relationship.

I know it's a pretty standard request but it's made me feel hideously unattractive, unfanciable amd unsexy. No one has ever asked or even suggested it before.

I've internalised it as he can't fancy me or want to have sex with me unless I do this. And then it would be about the clothes and it could be anyone. I suppose I feel completely dehumanised by it.

I had a really hostile reaction when he asked me. I was calm in my response but I told him that I wasn't going to do it and if he wanted to be with someone fanciable and sexy than he needed to be with someone else. Inside I felt angry and disgusted (at myself for not being enough not at him for asking).

He told me he only said it as a joke, said that I was sexy and he did fancy me and has never mentioned it again. It clearly wasn't a joke but I don't suppose he knew what else to say and it was a response at least.

But it's totally changed how I feel about myself.

I used to sleep naked and felt confident and attractive enough to walk around naked in front of him. I know I've not got a great body and I'm no beauty, but I believed he fancied me and loved me so it was ok. Since he said it, I've rarely been naked. I sleep in a t shirt and leggings most nights we're together. I go to bed earlier so he can't see me undress or after him and wait for him to fall asleep, or I suggest we watch another episode of something so it's too late.

Our sex life has fallen off a cliff. It still happens but its very perfunctory now. It makes me uncomfortable afterwards when he tells me he loves me and I'm very quiet and just turn away from him.

I feel he's settling for me now. I know this is me. I also know he wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place if he'd known how badly it would make mfeel.l about myself.

I think part of it is that I wonder what else he would like or prefer but now won't mention because of reaction to this. I just feel completely inadequate.

If you are served a delicious looking meal, doesn’t a nice garnish make it look even more delicious? It would be delicious without, but the garnish enhances it. Think of the sexy lingerie as garnish. You are delicious to him without it, but the garnish adds additional flavor.

My point exactly

It sounds like you are angry at yourself for feeling this way, angry at your bf for asking you to dress sexy, angry at your DM for the constant belittling you with re to your looks.
You say everything was fine before yet you also state that you try in dresses that you think you look good in but then stuff them in the cupboard as you don't want him to see you in them. I think this problem is way deeper than him just asking you to put on a pair of stockings.
You sound almost hopeful that he will walk away, like then you will have been proved right. This is a horrible way for you to live, but honestly it's awful for him to. He can't say anything about you looking beautiful as you will turn it into a negative. You say therapy hasn't worked , maybe you haven't found the right one for you. Everyone deserves love and happiness in their life, but it feels like you will forever pushing away anyone who gets close until they leave, so reinforcing your negative view of yourself

Yes. Women are like food that you order in a restaurant. If you order a steak well done, for example, it's annoying when you get it medium rare or if there's too much gristle. And you want bread on the side.

Why would anyone be turned off by this? (sarcasm)

OP, I think if the sex had been really great, you would have overlooked his insensitive comment. My guess is that despite all his lovely qualities as a person, it was just okay sex and now you're turned off. It happens.

Stockings and suspenders - I sort of understand how it can be off-putting precisely because he's so specific, rather than asking if OP wpuld like to choose underwear for herself. It's obviously based on himliking t he images he's seen BEFORE of other women in stockings (although tp be fair, not neccessarily, his exes could have worn stockings and be all sorts of shapes), So OP feels she will be compared to those women or that he wants her to remind him of someone else.
BUT the way he backed off immediately and keeps showing he loves her (and telling her) should have been thhe end of it, i.e. it was NOT a significant yjing for him, just a fancy. So it's a mix of normal and abnormal reactions, therapy is a must there but OP is reasonable enough in some of it but maed to feel really bad about her whole reaction.

It's obviously based on himliking t he images he's seen BEFORE of other women in stockings (although tp be fair, not neccessarily, his exes could have worn stockings and be all sorts of shapes), So OP feels she will be compared to those women or that he wants her to remind him of someone else.

IDK if it's necessarily even that. These are fetish-lite items that blokes associate with a woman being sexy or a goer. The items themselves are arousing as they're culturally associated in a man's mind with the idea of a sexually motivated/sexualised woman. At one end is the average bloke who just might like a lover to wear these things. At the far end are blokes who can get off from interacting with a stiletto shoe with no one in it. Or who has some other more obscure items that do it for him.

FFS, it’s just an analogy, which I am sure you already know. 🙄

@DownAtMySpotInTheGarden there's nothing wrong with being vanilla.

Nothing at all.

I do think that a great deal of sexual-fucked-up-ness can be drilled down.

And actually the real desire is connection, a huge desire for connection with another human being and an inability to actually say what we want and why we want it.

It's really difficult to be honest with ourselves. So. Your boyfriends desire isn't that outrè.

But his, and your, ability to say, 'This is what I want, and this is why I want it'

Is really hard.

Honestly and why we need to be honest is really difficult.

Oh OP - I'm so sorry you're feeling like this.

I agree with other posters that suggest therapy might be helpful for you. I have some anxiety issues and it means that my thoughts can completely run away with themselves and spiral into something so much bigger than they need to be, and I think that's the case here.

Your partner has done absolutely nothing wrong and i wouldn't bring it up with him again, he needs to be able to express his sexual desires - it's healthy! - as do you. But do seek some help for yourself if you can.

You do care if he'd leave you because of this but you're trying to protect yourself by saying you won't. You don't want to be in a position to be hurt again as your mother did.

Honestly this isn't about you not being good enough, you are, he's with you, he loves you and I bet he's heartbroken that this has caused you so much pain.

No one sees you like you do. I bet everyday people look at you and think how successful and put together you are, not just superficially, looks wise but you sound like you're educated and have a career, you just need to get over your mothers opinion of you and how her actions have shaped your opinion of yourself.

My DH often says I look lovely blah blah blah and it makes me want to climb out of my own skin, due to, like you, the awful treatment of me by my family. Remember though he's stuck around so all these perceived thoughts about yourself in your head can't be right.

You really need to learn to love yourself, realise that your beautiful and have enormous potential in this relationship and for happiness. You need counselling to see that you deserve to feel pretty, attractive and sexual.

A pair of stockings won't intrinsically change you or your relationship, it's just something else to add to it. Buy some, put them on alone, look at yourself in the mirror, just see how you feel.

Honestly it's hard, I know, you probably feel being attractive brings attention to yourself and you don't want that because of how your mother has made you feel but you are worthy of that attention, you should be able to feel pretty and wanted physically.

He doesn't want anyone else in sexy underwear, he's chosen you, he wants you in it, he's sticking around because he loves you.

I'm curious about the fact that you sound pretty blasé with the prospect of him leaving the relationship. You mentioned you're not afraid of being single but thats not usually what people are afraid of in a break up, they're afraid of losing that particular person they love. You've said he tells you he loves you, he keeps these photo mementos on his phone, he sounds very into you....do you love him?

You and I are in a similar situation OP, but I feel differently about mine. I started a thread about it on MN, but came in for such a kicking that MN kindly deleted it at my request.

My own situation is that DH and I are very happy together. He is an extraordinary person whose love has healed me from the abuse of the past, to the extent that I don’t put up with shit from anyone nowadays. (That generally means avoiding them, but I now enjoy a tranquil life full of laughter.)

We had the usual brilliant sex life for the first year or so, but it gradually tapered off. Nice when it happens, but in recent years I got it into my head I shouldn’t push my luck as I’m quite a bit older than him and can’t expect him to sustain interest as my looks fade. I don’t want to make someone feel sick!

Last week he revealed over drinks one night that he’s always had a thing for women in black lacy lingerie and stockings. But, get this: specifically older women. Imagine my surprise! We’ve been together over 10 years and I’m only just finding this out?!

I said, actually probably screeched, How come you never told me this before?! – and he replied that he has told me, at least a couple of times. He just assumed I wasn't interested.

What I must have heard is that he likes sexy women in sexy underwear. Which automatically ruled me out, because in my head I am not a sexy woman. I know he loves me with all his heart and thinks I’m the most amazing woman in the world, but in my head I’m this old fat fuck who does not belong in sexy underwear as I don’t qualify for it.

Let’s just say that we are about to find out soon! The nervous anticipation is killing me, which is why I posted about it on MN!

What’s the worst that can happen? What’s the best that can happen? Maybe bite the bullet and give it a whirl?

I was also thinking about the stuff about not being able to get a therapist or work being busy or it not being that helpful etc...are you avoiding it? Honestly? DBT is awesome, just generally, but takes practise. The EDMR(?) I know someone with serious childhood trauma who was sent to that, who hated the notion of therapy, and came out feeling a lot better.

@DownAtMySpotInTheGarden Reading your post made me feel heart sorry for you 😢 how dare your mum make you feel you are not good enough and all these years later it is affecting your self esteem! She should be ashamed of herself 😡 I do feel like you can over come this as you did walk about and sleep naked and felt confident doing it. I get how your head tells you No even when you feel good but you need to try and block it out because beautiful people come in all shapes and sizes and people don’t see everyone through the same eyes and by the sound of your replies he definitely hasn’t settled he really loves you. He thinks you would look sexy in nice underwear I promise if you try it once and see his reaction you will absolutely love it 😊 that being said if it’s a no go for you that’s also fine but don’t let the things your mum done and said rule the rest of your life you sound so nice and she doesn’t deserve any place in your head anymore ♥️

Thinking about it, OP, I think this is to do with power. As women we are saturated with the notion that sexual attractiveness is where our value lies. It's the way we get and keep our men.

You feel as though you've suddenly got to compete in the "sexiness" department, so you feel stripped of the power you once felt you had.

If you have a good man who loves you, this whole notion of power and competition is warped and misplaced. He doesn't need you to put on a burlesque performance where you command all the attention and could take away the breath of a whole audience. Try and frame it in terms of intimacy and trust, instead.

@DownAtMySpotInTheGarden what was the career you wanted to do? Are you in that career? If not, could you get into it?

Ah yes, the "noble savage" trope! How profound 🙄.

I think he what he asked is pretty normal and you've had a masssssssive over reaction. Maybe it's triggering some past trauma or something?

@DownAtMySpotInTheGarden

I sort of get this. I’m not sure I fundamentally agree with high heels, make up, stockings etc. Or that I should or I should need to portray myself as something I am
not. I like being healthy, or using my mind as a way to be sexy - but not conforming to - maybe - an outdated male stereotype. High heels and stockings are restrictive - and I think the typical Ann Summers look is pretty tacky. I wouldn’t want to be with a man who is aroused by that - I’d rather he was aroused by me.

But I don’t think he’s done anything wrong. He’s suggested something to try - and I think just tell him it’s not for you. I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker.

I hope this perspective will be helpful for you - in my relationship it's the other way round and we have found some ways of overcoming the difficulties.

My partner has similar unresolved childhood trauma issues and has the 'fight or flight' response to many situations that are generally considered 'normal'. He is older than you and before our relationship had not had any serious relationship as he retreated from any intimacy. He also goes very quiet and retreats if he feels anything threatens him/unsafe (he knows that often it is an overreaction and not 'real' but he cannot help his instinctive reaction).

Being honest with you it has been difficult to be his partner but because I love him for who he is and very much value our relationship. I have learnt to be extremely patient, to show him (not tell him) through my actions over a long time that he can trust me, that he can feel safe with me and he has gradually been able to overcome some (not all) of his fears and instinctive reactions and to see that in the right circumstances sex and intimacy can be fun and unthreatening.

If something triggers him though he will retreat again and then it takes weeks of slow and gradual unpressured being together without intimacy for him to come out of his metaphorical 'protective shell' again. When it first happened after we had made progress it felt like a complete step back and I wasn't sure that he would get over it - but he did, so when it happens now I know that I just need to be patient and give him what he needs (space and time). It's not easy but he is worth it.

A few things that helped us for you to consider whether they might work for you or not (and apologies if these are not explained well).

Helping him understand you and your reactions - I know it's extremely difficult - however until he explained a little about his difficulties/trauma I felt that he was rejecting me because I wasn't good enough/he didn't fancy me etc. When he was eventually able to talk about it a little I then went away and read up on childhood trauma and the effects, 'anxious avoidant' attachment etc - so that I could better understand his difficulties and how to help - without him having to tell me or put that into words (which he isn't always able to articulate himself as talking about any of it triggers him). If there is a book or article or something you have found helpful or that you think articulates how you feel or why you feel that way - could you suggest your partner reads it?

Turning it around/using analogies - if I am trying to help my partner to see that a particular reaction is perhaps an overreaction/triggered reaction (as he doesn't always recognise that as he's always felt that way and doesn't always see that other people don't feel or react that way) - I try and take the focus off the actual issue and turn it around - so in your situation - try to look at it the other way around. Do you find your partner more attractive when he wears a particular outfit? Do you like something in particular about his body? So maybe when he wears a short sleeved shirt that shows off his arm muscles, or a well fitting pair of jeans that his bum looks especially good in? If so, does that mean you find him less attractive or 'not enough' in anything else - or that you look for other men wearing those things? I expect the answer is no - does that help you to see how he may feel about you in a particular outfit (it may not - but that type of processing is something that helps my partner think through his reactions).

Having strategies that work for you to manage and overcome your triggered reactions by recognising little things that might trigger you and finding ways to over come them - so perhaps think about something like the photos thing - you feel triggered if he tries to take a picture of you - could you agree with him that he will not take any pictures of you (so you feel comfortable knowing that he won't rather than stressed worrying that he might) but that when you feel comfortable you will take a picture of you or of you and him and if you feel ok with it will share it with him - that way you retain complete control - you don't have to take a picture unless and until you feel comfortable doing so and then even when you have taken it you can decide whether to share it with him or not - and that sharing can be as little as showing him the screen - or if and when you feel comfortable - sending it to him. For my partner - giving him that control and him learning to trust that if I had said I would not do something I absolutely would not do it - enabled him to gradually overcome or better recognise and manage some of his triggers. It may not work for you but I just wanted to share a technique that has worked for us to show there are ways to progress your relationship.

Briefly on therapy - my partner has also had therapy in the past (although not as much as it sounds like you have had), I feel he would benefit from more in depth therapy however I know that he is scared of that and the feelings it will uncover - so for us developing strategies & techniques between the two of us without him having to face the underlying issues is what's working for now.

Finally (sorry this post is so long, I hope it has been helpful) - above all else I would urge you to try and explain as much as you feel able to of how you are feeling and your triggered reactions to your partner. To start with it did not even occur to me that anyone would be upset by or triggered by some of the things my partner is so I unknowingly made things worse sometimes without realising. Better understanding your reactions will mean that your partner can support you and adapt his responses and behaviours to work together with you - if he is the right person for you and genuinely loves you (which it sounds like he does from what you've said) then he will be receptive to that and supportive of you.

Men are simple things that like a little extra visual stimulation at times
I'd say 99% of men love seeing their hot partner in stockings heels and sexy underwear ( I know I do and just because I've asked her to wear it doesn't mean I don't fancy her out of it ).

What does your partner ask you to wear, @Satinthemiddle ? Firemen's outfits? Cock rings? How about her visual stimulation? Or are you exempt from having to make an effort because you're 'simple things'?

One of the problems with women being asked to wear stockings, heels and sexy underwear is it's so bloody cliched, and frankly even the request makes the male partner look like a bit of a wanker. Another is that many women don't actually enjoy being sexually objectified and made to dress up or perform according to sexy images in men's heads.

You sound incredible. What a lucky man your partner is to have you! So insightful, kind and loving.

frankly even the request makes the male partner look like a bit of a wanker

Call me shallow, but I quite like the idea of being objectified briefly in the bedroom for a bit of how's-yer-father. I'm just glad he's so easily pleased! This is the man who showed me what love and respect really mean, so let's have some fun.

You're the woman he's CHOOSING to be with because he wants to be. Irrespective what you wear.