Do I have kids or get divorced? I'm lost.

[GammaRay01]

My marriage of 3.5 years has been pretty miserable - plaugued by arguments, depression, chronic resentment, rejection, anger, etc. We have had loads of counselling and are now, on DH's ask, about to get started with a new counsellor, for a new perspective / plan (DH didn't feel our counsellor of 1.5 yrs now has been good). I have agreed but a part of me inside is wondering if we have reached the end of the road; I feel lost and I feel unsure in what I want anymore - do I want to stay married to DH and try to have the family I have hoped for; or do I leave now and not bring kids into what could eventually be a divorce anyway but with kids involved? I am 35 with a confirmed low egg reserve (my mum hit menopause by 40). I could concieve naturally at the moment though (but need IVF due to DH's infertility) and it feels like a divroce now might mean I never have kids. I may take a few years to recover and assuming I somehow meet someone i can trust again, my fertility will likely have tanked by then. How do i make a good decision / find myself a path, with such high stakes?

DH (36M) is a kind individual and a good man with several good qualities, but I just feel we have been awful in what we offer each other (ie. we bring out the worst in each other) and in how different our visions / world view seems to be. I am also shocked at some of the incidents particularly in the last 2 months and how much he is able to hurt me (was ready to walk out in the middle of an IVF round, was ready to walk out again recently because of an argument with his sibling which the sibling started, etc). I just feel differently towards him lately - like I love him but I am not attracted to him; I am bracing myself, I am guarded and aloof. He is being loving at the moment and is trying to make an effort (he has stopped IVF though because of the arguments and says he needs the time plus counselling). I just dont know what I am even doing anymore. Feels like everything is on pause and there is no end in sight. I want to find it in me to make an effort again and work on my marriage.... but I am so tired and so lost right now.

Making matters worse, lately, i also find myself attracted to a guy I barely know (I've said hello a couple of times at our local store). I find myself fantacising about romance /relationship with this guy a lot. I know this is just trouble and I dont want to cheat at all; I just wonder if the "lost" me is trying to find solcae somewhere...

You've been in counselling for 1.5 years and married for 3.5? I'd be walking away.

Wow, quite a lot to unpick there. Practically, if you have low egg reserves and a family history of early menopause I would suggest you get your eggs on ice at a minimum - so you could either use once you get back on track with your partner, go solo or with a new future partner.
You don’t sound particularly happy with your partner and the stresses of parenthood won’t make that easier . Going through IVF is challenging for a couple so can easily cause tensions but it seems there’s more to this that that?

I have been told, that for me, freezing emryos would be better than freezing eggs. I wont be able to afford to throw money after freezing eggs when it has such low return/ potential.

I think freezing eggs is lower success rates than embryos for everyone. But do you want embryos with a man you’re not enjoying life with? What’s your amh level?

AMH 4.1 (c 7 - 8 AFC). Have had one IVF round where 6 eggs were collected but only 1 embryo was of half decent quality. I think this is why they didn't really recommend egg freezing for me. They said take a few months to figure out if you are going ahead with DH or solo and take it from there.

Well the embryo is going to also be dependent on your partner…so maybe speak to clinic again just to clarify the egg/embryo reccomendations. I also had low amh and 5 eggs collected….only one embryo made it to freezing quality.
Obviously they hope to gather more eggs each round but in your situation if you are certain you want children, i think you need to really consider it.
how long have you been with your partner pre marriage?

With my partner 5 years before we got married, so 8.5 yrs in total.

If i really wanted the egg freezing, I am sure the clinic will do; I am not sure I can afford it to be honest (given i could spend c. £5k for 1 half decent egg to be frozen). They just gave me that advice as I asked about egg freezing and mentioned the relationshio issue (as i had to explain why we were stopping the second round).

Honestly, if you have really different life visions and you bring out the worst in each other and you've had 1.5 years of counselling, I think your marriage is done already.

That's a really hard thing to contemplate objectively, as I know how terrifying the thought of not having kids is if it's important to you. But children should be born out of love and connection between their parents, who both have a secure belief in and commitment to the future of your family, not because one partner is scared of missing out on being a parent.

This sentence of yours stood out to me:

I am also shocked at some of the incidents particularly in the last 2 months and how much he is able to hurt me

I have two kids to someone who could sometimes shock me with his callousness, and that 'shocked' feeling is a massive red flag that I didn't understand the importance of at the time. It's a strong indicator that something is deeply off with him and you're just not able to see the whole picture (likely because there's stuff he's not admitting to you or possibly even himself).

I spent years justifying my ex's behaviours and telling myself he was a "good, kind man" who was just struggling to get it right. Eventually I realised that although he could be kind at times, it was never when it required anything much of him.

A lot of the good qualities I believed he had were actually just me projecting good qualities onto him because I found it too hard to accept that all the things he did that made me uncomfortable seemed off because he was lying to me and manipulating me, rather than me 'getting things wrong' or him making well-intentioned mistakes.

The reality was that he was able to do such hurtful things because he lacks much capacity for empathy for others and is deeply selfish and dishonest.

Your DH may not be the same, but if you've spent a long time in counselling with little progress, it may be because your DH is not able to admit to the real issues.

My kids are the lights of my life and I will never regret them, but having to hand your beloved kids over to someone who you don't trust to care for them well is a special kind of pain. Don't give your kids a parent who may treat them with shocking unkindness. Because if he does it to you, he'll likely do it to them too, eventually.

Thank you @CheekyHobson .. i will be reflecting on a lot of things you said..

One thing though; i do think my DH will make a good father. He will be a worse husband as a father I feel (ie. more judgemental of me, more arguments, etc), but that he will be a good father to the kids. He is v kind to other people - his friends, his family, etc; so I dont think he will be unkind to any kids we have. My dilema though is to do with whether I should bring kids into a marriage so troubled (and therefore so likley in future to end in divorce).

I can't believe you'd even consider staying together, let alone having children.

Glad what I said could be helpful.

He is v kind to other people - his friends, his family, etc; so I dont think he will be unkind to any kids we have.

I would just say that it may be worth reflecting on the actual closeness of his relationships with the people he is kind to.

My ex could also be very generous and sometimes very helpful to others. (Note: generosity and helpfulness are not the same thing as being kind, though all three qualities often get conflated together.) Sometimes he will go out of his way to do something nice for someone he barely knows.

But in reality, these are not people who he is genuinely close to. He sees his family once in a blue moon. He has some long-term friends, but again, sees them quite occasionally, and usually to do an activity that doesn't require much emotional closeness (like going mountain-biking or going to a concert).

My ex's acts of kindness are mostly about maintaining a nice-guy persona to people who don't know him as closely as it seems like they would. The relationships don't require a lot of upkeep.

You live with your husband and see him every day, so you know him better than anyone. If you, as the person who is closest to him, gets treated worse than other people, there is not much real reason to believe that his children will fare differently. Children can be extremely testing, even when you adore them.

Could you in all consciousness bring a child into the World in a marriage that has required counselling support for almost half of it's existence, a relationship in which you admit you bring out the worst in each other, where you don't share that same values and feel is likely to end in divorce ? Really why would you want to put a child into that situation ? And would you want to be tied to this man for 18 years, even if you have divorced ?

By my reckoning you started counselling after being married for 2 years. Now couples don't just have a bust up over who forgot to cancel the milk and decide to have long term marriage counselling, so there would have been a period of time leading up to the decision to seek counselling, where the relationship was deteriorating. In less than 2 years of marriage. You post sounds flat, and strangely lacking in emotion, like you've had all your stuffing knocked out of you.

It really isn't meant to be that hard.

I admire resilience and determination to stick at something, I really do, but I think you have reached a position of the sunk costs stakes that is off the scale.

So stop with the marriage counselling - however invest in yourself - I strongly urge you to seek counselling just for yourself urgently - you need some space to make some major decisions.

You're on a timescale - you can't afford to let you husband dictate the rate of play on your fertility. If you are adamant you want children, you need to get going. This may mean using a donor and leaving your husband.

I'm a solo mum by choice and had my DC using a sperm donor and IVF. Have you considered going it alone? As you're probably aware IVF has a high failure rate even under the best circumstances, as so many factors need to align for there to be a viable embryo, pregnancy and a live birth at the end. Happy to answer any questions!

Oh OP. I can absolutely understand why you are thinking this way.

The reality is that your marriage will not last, whether it ends soon or not.

While your DH might have good qualities, you've already commented on his cruel behaviour at moments of vulnerability, towards you.

Being pregnant, having a small DC, and going through a possible future breakup offer unlimited opportunities for someone to be cruel and hurtful, at times of enhanced vulnerability.

In the future you will have decades of needing to deal with him, in terms of access & maintenance.

This is your life you are talking about.

As hard as it is, I think you need to start by making a decision on your marriage. Matters might become clearer then with some options like possibly a new relationship or using sperm donor if you go ahead yourself.

I was someone who continued in an abusive marriage because marriage and children were so important to me. By the time I realised how bad everything was I had 3 v small DC, and a whole range of other problems. I'm so glad I had them but everything before & since our separation has been very hard.

Good luck 💐

ie. we bring out the worst in each other

Having children would mean you both need to be in the same page and agree even basic ground rules, bedtimes, schooling, activities etc imagine being a child in the centre of two parents who can’t coparent!

Just leave, adapt, use a donor, shag the shop guy!!! Anything is better than what you have now.

Children are extremely triggering and often bring out huge emotions. For a man who behaves worst to the person he’s closest to, it’s most unlikely that he will be calm with children. I’d separate and try a donor in your shoes.

I reread this twice....And finally noticed the blame you put on him for the infertility. Since he now can't win in your eyes,kindly let him go. But make sure he knows that you are blaming him .
Yikes....

Dear OP, there is lots of excellent and heartfelt advice above especially from @CheekyHobson . As one who has spent many years with (and had a child with) a ‘kind and generous man’ who has many issues and who has been the result of my feeling suicidal and self/harming, please please take great care. You are still young - you can change things and go on to find happiness elsewhere. I’m a lot older than you and have wasted years trying to make my marriage work - it’s never going to. It’s not something I’d normally say - but don’t have children with this man. Get some excellent counselling on your own. Get out. Xx

Oh yes,bless her dear,precious,innocent heart!
You've got to be kidding...

Throwing a baby into the mix will be chaotic, OP.

Would you consider separating and trying a sperm donor and being a single mum?

Or perhaps fostering alone?

@BubblyBunchOfCoconuts
Oh yes,bless her dear,precious,innocent heart!
You've got to be kidding...

You seem to be projecting some personal issues onto the OP... which, to be clear, we all do, but at least take ownership of why you've chosen to seize on one sentence from the OP's post and make it mean a whole lot of things that many people won't take from their reading of it.

3.5 years in with no kids should be a lot easier than this. Having children can put a massive pressure on couples . It becomes so much harder to keep your connection alive amidst sleepless nights, limited ops/desire for sex and arguments over who's turn it is to do xyz. I would cut my loses now. Your eggs may have a limited time but you may have another 50+ years do you really want to spend that with someone who is mediocre.

You've wasted 3.5 years on this marriage already, the way you describe it. Get out now before you lose any more time to it. If you get divorced now you can be completely free of him, but once you've have children together you never will be, ever.

Why did you even narrry this person? Was that a sticking plaster for a failing relationship, or your biological clock talked you into it?

Bringing children into a relationship tests even the healthiest of them. I can't imagine having a child ever bringing together an already failing one.

I think you can be extremely, extremely unhappy in a bad marriage with children. Far worse than if no kids are involved.

Don't try and have children with someone you don’t love. You may as well use a sperm bank and do it on your own. Less unhappiness involved for everyone.

get out now and you have a chance at having children in a better relationship.

you are going to have to be very brave and I wish you so much strength.

For the love of God don't have children with this man. Don't tie yourself, for the rest of your life, to a man who brings out the worst in you. All your child would see is both of you at your worst.