DH has invested / gambled away our life savings

[newnamechangeforme]

Hi, my DH and I have been married for 7 years and we have a 3yo. Husband works in a high-earning city job. I teach and have been part-time since going back after maternity leave.

Our household income is higher than average due to DH's job, and I caveat this whole post by saying we are very fortunate. I've never taken anything for granted through and neither of us come from well off backgrounds.

Having said that we live in London, and costs are high so it's all relative. We own a 2-bed flat and we're hoping to be able to afford a small 3-bed house but not for another few years while we save up as you need at least £1.2m for that which we are nowhere near. DH receives annual bonus which can be a really big chunk of money, and we have been planning to save these up for a decent deposit.

Anyway, DH confessed to me last week that he had lost almost all of our savings - £30k. He has been "investing" in things like NFT's and crypto. He also took out two loans without telling me and so we are now £75k in debt. Apparently he was desperately trying to make it right and get the money back before I found out, and got into this mess.

I was obviously angry and beyond furious / hurt / betrayed. I've been through all the emotions and we've talked at length.

To cut a long story short, DH did this before with his bonus a couple of years ago. It was about £30k at the time and again we were planning on saving it for a deposit. We went through a terrible time of it but came through it with DH saying he'd learnt his lesson and I really thought he had. Fast forward to last weeks confession.

DH says he thinks he has a gambling problem (even though it's technically investing not sports gambling he says the highs and lows are essentially the same). He is sorry and has found a therapist specialising in addictive behaviours. He came to this conclusion by himself without my input. He is saying that any future bonus's should come into my bank account or into our shared account so I can see everything (he previously had it in his own account). I've suggested that his salary also be paid into our joint account from now on as up till now it's gone into his and then he sets up a standing order to our joint account for household expenses / joint spending. Basically I need oversight of everything. He agrees.

I have been furious but am now at the stage where I'm trying to look forward, and holding into our marriage vows. He is sorry and keeps telling me, and I can see he is deeply upset and hates himself. I think the therapy is a good step.

The problem is we now owe interest on the loans he took out and he maxed out our overdraft facility. It's to the tune of £400 a month. This is money we don't have so we are looking at what can be done. Ironically me giving up work and reducing nursery fees might actually give us the cash, but I hated being a SAHM full time and I worry my resentment will boil over if I have to do this. Instead I'm trying to look at all the cut backs we can make with grocery shopping, food, etc etc.

Not sure if anyone's been through this before? How can I / we make this work? Not just financially but as a couple / family? My husband is otherwise a decent guy but it seems he clearly has a massive problem. In my darkest moments last week I did see that this could tear us apart but I don't want that. Despite everything I love him and I want our family to stay together - we have been very happy and DD is a happy child. I don't want this to spoil it and I'm furious with him for potentially wrecking it all. I have therapy already so I'm going to make sure I can offload about the impact of this on me.

Anyway sorry if this is a confused rant. Does anyone have any tips for us / me?

@EarringsandLipstick thanks, my life is so much better now in many ways!

I think that the situation also fed into my desire to feel needed and that I was taking care of things, being a good girl with a touch of martyrdom. Not a healthy dynamic for either of us.

OP- you may feel differently and your DH may genuinely change but I would just say given the enormous sums he's lost already and the abuse of your trust that you would be justified in leaving him by anyone's measure. He maybe an addict but his addiction is not your burden to carry.

Also I would say that counselling is great but it doesn't mean anything if he doesn't actually participate in the hard work of conquering his addiction. My ex was always happy to go to counselling to get back in my good books, and have someone listen to his sob stories then he would stop going once they wanted him to actually put any effort in.

It’s not just about knowing what his bonuses are, is it.

How can he be a 30something “very high earner in the City” and at the same time you’re worrying that £400 a month in interest payments will mean financial hardship and having to cut back on groceries etc.?

You’ve already stated that you live in a flat in East London, so it’s not an astronomical mortgage that means you’ll be living paycheck to paycheck now you have £400 of interest to pay.

Something doesn’t add up here, I’m sorry.

He’s either lying about his salary or he’s gambling away a chunk of his paycheck and the total he’s wasted is far more than £135k…

£400 in interest, so that's not even paying back the loan?

How many bonuses does he get in a year? How quickly is he going to be able to clear the £75k debt?

OP, I am so sorry to hear you find yourself in this situation. It must be crushing.

A lot of companies pay a certain % of bonus in stock - any chance this is the case and he is within the right timeframe to cash out?

I am by no means trying to poke holes in your story, but would just consider the below...

1. By the time people have a 3yo child, they are usually naturally at the stage in their career where they are no longer regularly working until 2am. He might be staying in the office late not to work, but to use his work systems (Bloomberg etc.) to get better data for his personal investing. Maybe having him at home earlier could cut out this danger zone?

2. I do know people who still occasionally put in late shifts in the office, but they are usually compensated quite handsomely, in many multiples of what you describe above. The other possibility is that he's staying out for client entertainment, but again, for a client-facing role I would expect both more savings and for the £400/pm to be more easily absorbed.

I know you said you saw the payslips but is there any chance he gets bonuses paid out more frequently? While this is not the norm at bigger firms ime, it is definitely the case at more boutique places where commission/performance makes up most of the compensation. It could also explain a smaller monthly base salary that can't absorb the £400. Any chance he is only showing you one bonus per year to make it seem like they are "annual" when they are actually quarterly, for example?

Wishing you all the best - it's a common scenario sadly.

Sorry if my last point wasn't clear - a better question would be, have you seen payslips from every single month of the year?

What he’s done is totally unforgivable. I’d walk away now. Addicted or not - he’s shown no respect for you or your child. You’re here, asking for advice, talking about him, showing concern - basically doing all the work. Where’s he? What’s he doing? You’re not his mother, you’re not responsible for him. Please walk away now.

Sorry, last thing - I don't think I read properly last time, did you say he works in a bank? If so, bonus season is pretty much over - it will be a long wait until the next round... they are all different but not aware of any that hand out bonuses over the summer or autumn.

On the practical side, can you remortgage to take some money back that way and pay off some of the debt?

For everyone suggesting moving or getting some more on their mortgage, a bank isn't going to give them more money with £75k debt and failed investments on his side.

OP I'm guessing going back full time temporarily wouldn't be beneficial based on nursery fees?

OP you keep ignoring the most important question which is 'where is the crypto?'. Do you actually know what he has in his wallet? It seems near on impossible that he will have lost all of that money if he has invested in crypto that he still holds.

It sounds far more likely that he has been scammed. Fraudsters pose as crypto traders , you transfer your money via somewhere like Binance to them and they take the lot then they block you. They are professional and convincing and I deal with victims every day that have lost massive amounts of money. If this is the case you need to contact your bank and advise you have been the victim of an investment scam and they may be able to recover the money

It's also possible he may have spent it on something else entirely. You dont seem to have a grip on where the money has hone. Have you gone through his statements and crypto wallet?

@EarringsandLipstick @billy1966 I tried to fix it too. Whilst I was at my three jobs on public transport because I'd sold my car to pay his debts because as he reminded me we were a team, he was shagging a younger woman from work. At least that made me throw him out.

Once I could maybe forgive (but not forget) a second time? No chance.
He's spunked away more than lots of us will ever save in an entire lifetime.
Why are you trying to figure out how to pay it back? It's his fault. Please do not quit your job to bail this man out. When he does it again in the future (he inevitably will) and you finally separate you're going to need your career/ earning potential.

I'd also make sure you have all the relevant account apps on your phone and keep checking them weekly in future.

@Zenana

I'm really sorry. These men are awful. Mine escalated the emotional abuse & controlling behaviour until I barely knew who I was. I'm still amazed I got the energy, finally, to make him leave. He's still managing to wreak a lot of havoc a decade on unfortunately.

The phrase "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" was first recorded (with slightly different wording like deceit etc.) in 1650. It was probably in use before that.

It's still being used now for very good reason.

He's done this before, this is the second time.

As always, Billy1966s post was excellent.

No-one wants to end a marriage at all, let alone with kids involved, and esp when they think the rest of the marriage is good. But some things are so significant, they negate the rest of the marriage being "good". It's like saying "this is a great car, except for the engine that keeps breaking".

Will you be liable for his debts/loans if you divorce?

He's spunked away more than lots of us will ever save in an entire lifetime.

You could buy a small house (and get at least £500 a month rental income off it) in my region for his loans amount alone.

I did think that he might be in a client facing role if he’s working till 2am and on call all weekend and on holidays. However, client facing roles pay 50-100% bonuses. A £30k bonus net is, what, £55k gross? How can a client facing banking professional in his 30s be earning a salary of £55k-110k? That is what the analysts earn.

On the other hand, if he’s back office then he shouldn’t be working till 2am and on weekends/holidays. And if he were back office, then the bonus is more like 20-30% so his salary is substantial (£200k+) and can very easily absorb £400 a month in interest, not to mention go towards savings - why is he only saving his bonus and not his salary?

@newnamechangeforme It sounds like he is lying to you about a lot more than the ‘investments’. Feels like tip of the iceberg, I’m afraid.

Jesus. This is an evocative post. 🙁

I’m sorry OP. You must be reeling.

As part of dealing with the situation has he considered changing jobs? Does he feel this job and the pressure to keep up with the Joneses is part of the problem? By the sounds of it you are basically a single parent as he is never home. Could he speak to a recruitment adviser? One of the easiest ways to make more money is to switch jobs and negotiate a higher wage.

Please continue to be cautious. My priority would be a visit to a financial expert who can check if there is additional debt that he has not told you about. I would not make any firm decisions about your future until you know exactly what you are dealing with.

My mistake, my apologies.

That sounds very hard.

A decade ago I knew nothing at all about gambling, but through a couple of friends have truly been horrified at the carnage it can leave behind.

It is truly endemic.

Ordinary folk, have no idea the stress, misery and abject poverty that can be caused by it.

Both women were very lucky that they had careers with pensions, because if they didn't, goodness knows where they would be.

But they both had to sell beautiful homes to split their assets to pay off unsecured loans.

By the time the houses were sold neither women were feeling loving nor kind towards their husbands.

They had woken up and saw their reality.

They took every penny they could and left their husbands to get on with it, with what they had left.

Both have much, much smaller homes and are now getting on with it.

Gamblers are liars and extremely devious.

When they are in the clutches of it some would steal from family.

GamAnon is a great resource.

Listening to women in their 70's telling their stories changed everything for them.

They weren't prepared to deal with this as an OAP.

There is no cure, just management.

Through living a modest enough life, one woman always imagined they would give their children a substantial deposit for a house, that certainly hasn't happened and has caused residual bitterness.

He burnt through everything over the years, hundreds of thousands.

Tbh OP - you’ve had good advice here. All my friends in financial pickles are really insistent on living in certain areas in London and living a certain lifestyle. When you hit rock bottom though which you guys have, you need to reconsider.

I live in Lewisham, I’m also on a 6 figure salary and don’t need to necessarily live here but it frees up a lot of cash . I’ve made this decision consciously for my family.

Thanks for all the messages. I think that some of what I've said had got confused on here and I feel a lot of responses are making assumptions which don't apply to me. I am in no way after a lavish lifestyle. I'm happy to live anywhere so long as our DC school is right. I am not clinging on to any vision of houses or areas beyond this.

Also a lot of fixation on DH getting a £30k bonus sounding not right and therefore he must be hiding his true earnings from me- which I've made clear isn't the case. His bonus was more than £30k but this was the remaining amount we had in savings. Also I never said he was mid 30's - he is just 30.

I have all his payslips, P60 and crypto info as I've managed our tax return.

We are sitting down tomorrow and going over all our finances once again. We did it last week to get a handle on things so now we are going to endure everything goes through the account I manage.

He is starting his therapy with an addiction specialist.

I am not going to leave him but I also have my eyes open. I'm going to ensure that I have control of finances. I think it's positive that he is actively seeking help by himself without prompting from me and I am not just going to walk away at the first setback. He has a massive issue but it's worth committing to see if he can get better and we can make things work. In my eyes that's what marriage is. If I had a setback I would hope he would support me, at least unless improved incapable of changing. He hasn't proved this yet as he hadn't tried to change yet.

You still haven’t explained why you’re worried about £400 a month in interest when he is supposedly such a high earner bringing in a bonus of more than £30k net. You say the interest payment is “money we don’t have” and have posted on MN asking for tips on how to raise the money, and how you’re considering cutting back on groceries etc. due to this extra outgoing. You also made clear your living situation - a flat in East London - therefore no crippling mortgage payments, as well as the fact you only pay for childcare part-time (which is mostly covered by wages you bring in).

You have to understand it from the reader’s perspective - what you’ve shared makes literally no sense if your husband is a 30 year-old client-facing banker. Where the hell does his salary go, if you can’t easily absorb £400 a month?

No one likes to think they’re being taken for a ride, so I can understand your defensiveness, but you absolutely must get to the bottom of what he actually earns each month and where the hell it’s going.

That's the thing when investing, it's always better to spread the investments rather than all in one basket, as if it goes pickles then it's usually the brokerage that wins. As for taking out the loans I can understand his perspective, but that was a very tricky gambit.

That said I don't think gambling is his issue, I think he likes the idea of winning big with the investments but usually unless you have study your stocks, risks, company details etc of what your investing in, it's certainly high stakes.