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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Could you forgive or move on with your husband after this?

244 replies

Noodleskaboodles · 10/05/2023 22:22

So I'll try to make this as short as I can...

Background, we've never had the best relationship, we have struggled with sex more than anything else (I would like to be having sex at least once a week whereas he would want sex once every 3 months if that -we meet somewhere in the middle with once a month, maybe once a fortnight) so I guess that's why this cuts a lot deeper...

My phone broke today so i pulled one of our old ones out of the drawer to use while i get mine fixed. It turned about to be husbands old phone. I charged it and switched it on, and in the messages there were tonnes of unsaved numbers (dating back to 2019 the month after I had our daughter to nov 2021) where his half of the conversation had been deleted but the received messages were all there and were all similar to the attached screenshot. I questioned him this evening about them and he said that a couple of years ago he "made a mistake" and was messaging prostitutes. he says he never actually followed through with meeting any of them.

I asked when did he last send one of these and he said a year or more ago. I asked to see his current phone to prove this, he handed it over and when I went into the 'deleted conversations' tab there were at least 10+ of unknown numbers with message threads. I clicked to recover them and he snatched the phone back saying "that's not fair though". I was like fair????? WTAF!!! He refused to let me look saying I should trust his word but I told him he can hand it over and let me read the messages or we're over! He refused and we argued on and off for an hour or so about it. During the 'breaks' he was on his phone fiddling about with something. After all the arguing he finally said "fine, read what you like!" And handed over the phone, all of the message threads I had seen had been permanently deleted. He refuses to admit that he has removed them, and has stated throughout that it was just messages and no physical contact at any point

AIBU? Should I be taking his word that he didnt actually have sex with anyone else? I'm pretty sure i already know the answer, but it kills me to throw away a 10 year marriage over this, and to disrupt life for my 3 year old

Could you forgive or move on with your husband after this?
OP posts:
AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:20

IWantRebeccasConfidence · 11/05/2023 09:19

I think the original poster meant is he having sex with male prostitues, not that the women weren’t human.

OP, no one would reply to a message 5x that someone didn’t show up for. He has 100% moved forward with this and has sex with them

I think the original poster meant is he having sex with male prostitues, not that the women weren’t human.

????

What on earth? Obviously, i understood what they meant. Where did anyone imply they "weren't human"?

I was pointing out to the multiple posters who don't seem to understand the first thing about men who use prostitutes that paying a woman for sex is completely different to having consensual sex with another person.

So there is no reason to think he would be paying men, rather than women, to make them have sex with him.

GoneTillNovember · 11/05/2023 10:21

You cannot buy consent. It has to be given freely. Anyone who pays for sex does not have the free consent of the other participant.

I'm sorry OP. He's a horrible, disgusting scumbag. He has thrown away his marriage, not you. Good luck.

Bargellobitch · 11/05/2023 10:21

I'm so sorry op. No I could not forgive this. Also I've learned from here they always say it's just messages. It never is...

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:22

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:16

I'm sorry that you are so ignorant about the realities of prostitution that you feel the need to insult women who point them out.

I’m not ignorant. I haven’t insulted you - I said give over with your false comments. You have no idea who OP’s dh was meeting up with. You can’t just make stuff up to suit your agenda.

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:22

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:06

Are you for real @AsphaltGirl ??? While his actions are despicable, he has NOT raped a woman! Give over with your stupid, grossly misleading, incorrect comments!

You're extremely rude and insulting. Are you personally invested in defending men who pay to rape people?

Perhaps @Naunet 's post might help you to understand.

Naunet · Today 09:46
I’m so sorry OP, what a filthy, scummy man. If you have any moments of weakness, go look at UKPunting and see just how revolting men who use prostitutes are. A lot of them are flat out rapists. They post about how the woman wasn’t enjoying it/out of her head on drugs/crying etc but they still go ahead and rape her. They are absolute scum, can only feel good about themselves by abusing vulnerable women - fucked up, inadequate, pornsick, rapey creatures.

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:23

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:22

I’m not ignorant. I haven’t insulted you - I said give over with your false comments. You have no idea who OP’s dh was meeting up with. You can’t just make stuff up to suit your agenda.

Paying vulnerable, abused, frequently trafficked, often underage people to force them to perform sexual acts on you is rape.

Hth.

SaulSobieski · 11/05/2023 10:23

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:15

So you know the OP and her dh irl? You know where her dh goes and who he meets? Thought not .. not all prostitutes are victims - educate yourself.

As I said before, his actions are despicable, but don’t go accusing rape when you know nothing of the sort.

The bread and butter of prostitution is immigrant women with criminal wider/higher networks involved ..... As I said, educate yourself. You're woefully naive and ignorant.

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:25

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:15

So you know the OP and her dh irl? You know where her dh goes and who he meets? Thought not .. not all prostitutes are victims - educate yourself.

As I said before, his actions are despicable, but don’t go accusing rape when you know nothing of the sort.

Why are you so vociferously defending men who use money to coerce people into having to have sex with them?

And telling everyone else that they are ignorant?

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:27

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:23

Paying vulnerable, abused, frequently trafficked, often underage people to force them to perform sexual acts on you is rape.

Hth.

No it doesn’t help actually - Of course I absolutely understand what you’ve said 🙄 but again, you can’t and shouldn’t assume or make accusations that this is the case here for OP’s dh. Are you really naive to think the only prostitutes in the UK are trafficked? This isn’t a debate about the heinous act of trafficking - that’s an entirely different issue.

Gillbil · 11/05/2023 10:27

I'm so sorry! F#ck it says "I remember you" in one of the msg.
He hasn't just been texting, hes had sex with them. Leave!

He can't ever be trust, and has been doing it so much, its habit for him to msg and immediately delete.
You need to get tested and LTB

Go through all the old phones and pic everything and email it to yourself and even create a new email that can't be accessed by ur phone or computer ( basically no automatic login) so he can't delete it.
Or upload it all here - either on this thread or a brand new one that doesn't have people watching it.

Protect yourself, and he isn't worth it.

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:28

SaulSobieski · 11/05/2023 10:23

The bread and butter of prostitution is immigrant women with criminal wider/higher networks involved ..... As I said, educate yourself. You're woefully naive and ignorant.

Not naive nor ignorant. But you and others sound it.

Rhubarbandtoast · 11/05/2023 10:28

Sorry this has happened to you OP.

Get rid of him. From the messages you posted sounds like he’s a regular.

Get yourself STI checked.

There would be no going back from here for me.
He can give all the excuses he likes.

SaulSobieski · 11/05/2023 10:31

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:28

Not naive nor ignorant. But you and others sound it.

Keep telling yourself that.

If you're an English born, English speaking prostitute who has an education, skills etc and full understanding of benefits and the legal system who's not "affiliated" to a gang, and choose - while being able to make equal or better money doing anything else - to do sex work ..... Congratulations, youre in the vast minority.

SaulSobieski · 11/05/2023 10:32

I'm so sorry! F#ck it says "I remember you" in one of the msg.

Yep.

That's unlikely to be "I remember you from messaging, having never met you".

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:32

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:27

No it doesn’t help actually - Of course I absolutely understand what you’ve said 🙄 but again, you can’t and shouldn’t assume or make accusations that this is the case here for OP’s dh. Are you really naive to think the only prostitutes in the UK are trafficked? This isn’t a debate about the heinous act of trafficking - that’s an entirely different issue.

I said frequently trafficked.

No. Not all prostitutes are trafficked (just the majority).

But all of them are being abused.

And every man who pays to have sex with a person who wouldn't do it otherwise is a rapist.

Hth.

atotalshambles · 11/05/2023 10:33

I couldn't forgive and I would move on. Totally unacceptable and as others have said taking advantage of those who are vulnerable.

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:39

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:32

I said frequently trafficked.

No. Not all prostitutes are trafficked (just the majority).

But all of them are being abused.

And every man who pays to have sex with a person who wouldn't do it otherwise is a rapist.

Hth.

And every man who pays to have sex with a person who wouldn't do it otherwise is a rapist. NOPE - definition of rapist - a person who forces someone to have sex with them - paying for sex is not forcing them.

I’m done now, don’t want to derail the thread any further with false, untrue, accusatory comments. This thread is NOT about rape.

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:41

@Change2banon

Here's some very basic information for you.

The context is frequently one of abuse of power, used by those that incite and control prostitution - the majority of whom are men - to control the sellers of sex - the majority of whom are women. However CPS recognises that these offences can be targeted at all victims, regardless of gender.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/prostitution-and-exploitation-prostitution
90%
When asked if they would like to leave prostitution, 9 out of 10 women said YES

Causes & barriers
There is a strong correlation with homelessness, sexual abuse, violence at home, runaways, drug use, time in care, poverty, debt, and poor education. As well as drawing individuals into the sex industry, these social factors can also be significant barriers to exiting.

Women often feel powerless, isolated, excluded, vulnerable, marginalised, and trapped.

Most psychologists believe the long-term psychological harm resulting from prostitution is comparable to that from rape or domestic violence. Beyond the Streets highlights that 76% of those involved in prostitution experience some form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
The core experiences of violence and psychological trauma associated with prostitution are disempowerment and disconnection with others. Internally, these experiences often cause a ‘split’ between the mind, body, and spirit.

Individuals involved in prostitution often develop complex coping mechanisms and rituals to minimise their pain and brokenness:

Dissociative disorders (e.g. disconnection, distancing)
Anxiety disorders (e.g. fixation, memory loss, panic attacks, flashbacks)
Substance abuse (leading to long-term addiction and mental illness).
Sleeping disorders – oversleeping insomnia
Depression
Self harm
Eating disorders
Obsessive compulsive behaviour

https://www.streetlight.uk.com/the-facts/

I won't derail the op's thread any more, but @Change2banon your posts are appalling. You minimise and excuse the terrible harm of prostitution and what it does to women.

If you are genuinely interested in addressing your ignorance, the links above are a good place to start.

Prostitution - The Facts - StreetlightUK

Streetlight is a frontline support and outreach project working in the Horsham and North Sussex surrounding areas, working with women at risk or involved in prostitution. Streetlight is a member of Beyond the Streets. As such we share resources and goo...

https://www.streetlight.uk.com/the-facts

Mumof4alsoabonus · 11/05/2023 10:43

I would say just from that message he has definitely done something. “Yes I remember” is pretty bad!! Plus as you say, he would have been blocked. Taking the phone and deleting those messages is full guilt. It’s still going on. To then lie to you that he deleted them when you had just saw them is nail in the coffin. There’s no doubt here and don’t let him convince you there is.

GG1986 · 11/05/2023 10:44

Havent read all the updates but yes you need to leave him! Pretty obvious he has slept with these prostitutes and has put you at risk of stds. What a disgusting fool! He's ruined his family and marriage, you deserve better and so does your daughter x

monsteramunch · 11/05/2023 10:44

@Change2banon

So you know the OP and her dh irl? You know where her dh goes and who he meets? Thought not .. not all prostitutes are victims - educate yourself.

I absolutely agree that not all prostitutes are victims.

But the important point is, a punter can never know 100% whether the one he is paying for sex is a victim or not.

Punters are willing to take the chance despite the fact they cannot know 100% if the woman is coerced, abused, trafficked etc.

There is something deeply disturbing about a man willing to take that risk in order to pay for sex on demand.

Nothingisblackandwhite · 11/05/2023 10:46

Sorry but a husband using a prostitui-te is imo the lowest of the lows ! Specially when he can’t even have any proper sex at home . Maybe that’s why he can’t because he has always been going elsewhere ? Either way , that’s marriage over . You deserve so much better and you sure as hell deserve a better sex life

greenspaceplace · 11/05/2023 10:47

He has a daughter and he buys sex from women. Disgusting. Please be strong, if you don't leave now, you will in the future. It'll be easier right now as she's only 3 and she will only remember being with you if you leave now.

Change2banon · 11/05/2023 10:48

AsphaltGirl · 11/05/2023 10:41

@Change2banon

Here's some very basic information for you.

The context is frequently one of abuse of power, used by those that incite and control prostitution - the majority of whom are men - to control the sellers of sex - the majority of whom are women. However CPS recognises that these offences can be targeted at all victims, regardless of gender.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/prostitution-and-exploitation-prostitution
90%
When asked if they would like to leave prostitution, 9 out of 10 women said YES

Causes & barriers
There is a strong correlation with homelessness, sexual abuse, violence at home, runaways, drug use, time in care, poverty, debt, and poor education. As well as drawing individuals into the sex industry, these social factors can also be significant barriers to exiting.

Women often feel powerless, isolated, excluded, vulnerable, marginalised, and trapped.

Most psychologists believe the long-term psychological harm resulting from prostitution is comparable to that from rape or domestic violence. Beyond the Streets highlights that 76% of those involved in prostitution experience some form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
The core experiences of violence and psychological trauma associated with prostitution are disempowerment and disconnection with others. Internally, these experiences often cause a ‘split’ between the mind, body, and spirit.

Individuals involved in prostitution often develop complex coping mechanisms and rituals to minimise their pain and brokenness:

Dissociative disorders (e.g. disconnection, distancing)
Anxiety disorders (e.g. fixation, memory loss, panic attacks, flashbacks)
Substance abuse (leading to long-term addiction and mental illness).
Sleeping disorders – oversleeping insomnia
Depression
Self harm
Eating disorders
Obsessive compulsive behaviour

https://www.streetlight.uk.com/the-facts/

I won't derail the op's thread any more, but @Change2banon your posts are appalling. You minimise and excuse the terrible harm of prostitution and what it does to women.

If you are genuinely interested in addressing your ignorance, the links above are a good place to start.

Start a thread on victims of trafficking, prostitution etc - I’ll comment there and wholeheartedly agree with your views on the horrendous crime. What I don’t agree with is you calling the OP’s dh a rapist when you have no idea what he’s actually done or who he’s actually been with. I’m pretty sure the OP will be very upset to hear he dh branded a rapist. You can’t just slander like that.

ArmchairLoafer · 11/05/2023 10:50

He’s endangered your health. He’s not considerate.