Left out of a holiday with friends, help to move past it

[CallHerJohn]

This is pretty lame but I'm feeling a bit vulnerable so looking for advice.

I have two local friends, who have kids the same age as mine. We tend to meet up all together, have a group chat with the three of us, and the only reason we'd be without one of us is if the 3rd one is working or not around for some reason - generally we invite each other and/or our families when meeting up.

Last week the two other families went on holiday together. I only found out a few weeks ago after asking what one of their plans were over the Easter break. She sheepishly said her family were going away with the other family. I didn't really react, even though I was a bit hurt not to be asked. It's so silly isn't it? I'm a grown woman, but it feels like all those school days feelings of not being included have come right back.

We have a little baby (the other families have two dcs each), so maybe they thought we wouldn't be able to come or want to, but it would have been nice to be asked i guess? Or maybe they just didn't want us to come. Which hurts to think about.

I was ditched by my group of friends at the end of primary school (I never found out why), and ever since it's given me a bit of insecurity around relationships, so this plays right into my anxieties.

I will be seeing these friends regularly at the school gate, activities and socially (i hope?) and I guess I need to have some help to get over this and just move on so it doesn't affect the friendship. Like a mantra to tell myself? Or something?

Do you think they've been meeting up at other times without you realising?

It probably is the baby. They could be thinking you're just too busy/restricted at the moment with what you can do.

OP,

Unfortunately by their actions they have changed the friendship, likely forever.

I can absolutely understand your hurt and upset. Very upsetting.

Bottom line is that nice kind people wouldn't dream of doing this to a third friend in a group.

They just wouldn't.

The wisest thing here to do is NOT do anything you will regret as your children will be in the same class for years to come.

Look carefully at the BIG pucture.

If you are going to be seeing them for years, believe me, the last thing you will want to do is to create a situation that makes it awkward for you and the children to be around each other.

I think they are awful, horrible behaviour.

But for you, I would advise you tread with care and don't do anything that will cause you regret in how it impacts being able to be around each other.

Primary schooling goes on for years and years.

At nearly 60 I have heard and seen it all.

I was so warned by older friends to not get overly involved with the parents of my childrens friends as it can bring drama.
Best be polite and friendly with boundaries.

In your place I would pass this off and say little.
Yes you would have liked to be included, but shit happens and these two have decided to behave like school yard meanies.

Best you know this now, because that is likely who they are.

Heads up is good.

You are so lucky that you have other friends.
Invest in them and in making new friends.

You can still see them and pass them off, but do not depend on them.

Their brand of friendship will never be the type that lasts.

Keep all your friendship options open and explore new ones.

You have every right to be hurt, but coming out the right side of this will be more important when the hurt fades.

Primary school goes on for years and friendships really can change over that time.

Do the DHs ever spend time together? If so could you get your DH to ask, if you're worried you would get too emotional? If it were me I would really want to find out because often we assume things that are wildly wrong. There may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for why they went without you. Equally if there isn't it would be better to know so next time you aren't disappointed and can deepen your friendships with others. Perhaps your DH could even just phone/say to one of the other DHs 'Hey, just wanted to let you know DW is sad we weren't invited on the trip last week. Totally understand that you have no obligation to invite us but thought your DW might want to know as I know they are good friends and she wouldn't want her to be sad, particularly if there's a reason for it that she doesn't know about that could be cleared up.'

Depends on how well your DH knows the other DHs though I guess otherwise could be super awkward.

It also depends whether you think they are actually your friends or whether they are, as others have suggested here, a bit false and self-centred. If the latter then I'd not bother saying anything. If you value the friendships and think they are genuine I'd try to find out.

All this.

There is no need to make enemies of them when you and your children are going to have to see them nearly every day for years. Mumnetters love a drama when it's not their own, so don't let people wind you up in to "confronting" them. Downgrade their importance in your mind, and continue to meet them when it suits you and your children. Tier 2 friends.

Tier 2 friends is a good way to describe them.

Unfortunately asking them will likely solve nothing and only make things awkward.

They discussed, planned, booked the holiday, all without you involved.

They are not Tier 1 friends.

Far better to cry it out in private and be cool and breazy to their face.

After 4 children having gone through primary, the drama between the children can be the least of it.

Some parents, even those with big careers, that you'd think should know better, make tits of themselves over their children....usually their first child.

They are over involved in their childrens lives, friendships, mum buddies until it all goes tits up, they are scalded, learn from it and keep a low profile thereon in!

Close friendships are best not made in the early years at the school gates.

Far better to be neutral and open minded and see how things play out.

The girls in particular can move around in the first few years, so best to be prepared for that.

You will look back on this and 🙄 inna couple of years.

I would be wary of women who would behave like this and how they will behave as parents in the years to come.

I'm sorry you are hurt and I can understand your upset.

However, in all likelihood this was about you having a young baby while they have school age children. You've moved back to the babyhood stage and they are (presumably) glad to have left it behind.

We went on holiday with extended family who a baby and the baby's schedule dominated what everyone could and couldn't do. Never again. Keeping the noise down for nap times, having to cut things short because the baby was overtired, etc etc - Did that for my own and am not going through it again.

Your friends like you and clearly care about you or they wouldn't feel akward about it. But for the moment your life stage is out of step from theirs and there will be times that means they'll do thibngs without you.

Totally agree.

This. Keep your dignity.

Actions speak louder than words. They've shown you who they are, so to speak.

I don’t like going on holiday with my immediate family and other families. I did it with my parents, when the kids were little, as my Dad was terminally ill and felt worth it. I find it hard enough to juggle the wants of just me, DH and our kids. When my DH and I tried holidays with other couples before kids I never really enjoyed it. I like skiiing holidays with a group of friends and enjoy girls trips away without husbands and kids, but don’t do family trips with other families. The accommodating necessary to make it work means I don’t relax. Other friends love to do and I can appreciate why but it’s not right for me!

You sound lovely OP.

I would be hurt too though I would try to move past it as I agree with pp that people should be able to spend time how they want to.

If I couldn't stop feeling bad about it I would probably say something but saying something is often unsatisfactory (I eventually told my half sisters I felt unhappy my stepdad never invites me at Christmas since our mum died, and I didn't really get a meaningful response, I think they just feel stuck in the middle so I dropped it).

It's likely to be something really shallow, like the organizer happened to find 2 cabins next to each other and was looking for 1 family to go with.

Hope you get it resolved.

If I couldn't stop feeling bad about it I would probably say something but saying something is often unsatisfactory (I eventually told my half sisters I felt unhappy my stepdad never invites me at Christmas since our mum died, and I didn't really get a meaningful response, I think they just feel stuck in the middle so I dropped it).

That is awful of your stepdad, cruel and so self-centred. It's not at all like what Op's friends are doing. I'm so sorry that your stepdad is not inviting you and the step sisters should have definitely spoken up and have your back. This is really sad to read @Aria999

OP, there are some wise posters on this thread, I agree with those that say keeping your kids' friends' parents at arms length is preferable but everyone is different. I want my kids to have their own friendships and wouldn't like to mix it all up. It's different if these are existing friends from before you had dc and continue to socialise with dc. I have seen some crazy intense mum friendships in early primary and it often ends in disappointment and frustration. I suppose the school mum friends left at the end of secondary school are life long ones.

What you’ve said here (eg about joining in when baby was older) leads me to think that you would never be comfortable with them choosing to go on holiday just their 2 families either now or in the future and their friendship to you is valuable as a solid 3 - potentially with the historical situation of them both being closer to you than each other and they both knew you first. That’s fine if that’s your preference and my group of 3 we’re always conscious of including each other but it does preclude flexibility for 2 of the group to grow naturally closer, which they might want to do. Doesn’t mean they like you any less than they always have but might make you feel differently about them if that dynamic makes you feel a third wheel and not important to them. I would sit back and do nothing and just notice how you feel with time

Not a particularly great friend then are you 🙂

I was the last to have a baby. My invites temporarily dried up for a while! I understood perfectly.
Once the kids were all a bit older normal service resumed.

I am actually a nice friend and care about them. Babies are no longer an issue for us!

Why should I have my holiday ruined by something rather is not making me enjoy it. And flip that over why should my friends holiday be ruined by something they don't want either.

It's about understanding each other realising you are not going to get invited to everything and you can't invite everyone to everything either.
That's life

I would be hurt in that situation too. One obviously suggested to the other that just those two families should go away together and it was agreed. I'd be slightly interested to know which of the two had the idea as I'd see her as not as close a friend as previously imagined. It could be you, it could be your husband, or it could be that the children don't get on as well as you'd thought.

What you really can't do is tell them that you are hurt by it, or have your husband 'casually' mentioned it ...cringe. It's been made clear that those two women/families have a different relationship with each other than they do with you. So maybe they view each other as 'great' friends and you are a good one. But it's hurtful when that is made clear to you by friends like this when you thought you were all as close.

Goodness, I’m so sorry you’re in this situation.

This is something that I definitely could not sweep under the carpet and forget about.

I can’t imagine why they thought this would be a good idea, or feel it was acceptable to leave you and your family out. I would need to know though.

If you ask them, is there a response they could give that you would find understandable? I can’t think of a single reason that would then put my mind at rest tbh. Honestly op, I think they are just rude.

They have been really unkind, and now it feels like it is all on you to decide how to proceed….. either ignore and be stuck with all the questions OR confront them, and risk your dignity.

This would be a deal breaker for me, and I would no longer feel secure in this friendship group.

I’d start to distance myself I’m afraid.

The more I think about it it’s the baby. Even in a different cabin it’s an additional layer of faff and fuss which once youve left behind you want to be as far away from as possible. Not defending it but reckon that must be it.

No mismatch of finances, and honestly there would have been nowhere to eat out, maybe a few local cafes but certainly no night life. More of a bring your own food and booze situation.

Totally. At the moment I have a baby and I wouldn't inflict that on anyone (mine sleeps through but I can't trust they'll sleep OK on holiday). Why should someone be kept awake/woken up by my baby? Im considerate of other people. Once mine is older vice versa, I don't want to be woken either. Tat isnt my idea of a relaxing holiday. I guess we are all different ... hence why OP probably wasn't invited. A baby will add a whole other layer of faff, and it's ok for someone not to want that if they're on holiday 🤷🏼‍♀️

Would you tell your mates that's why? Or just plan it without them and keep it from them until they asked directly? That's really the issue I think - the way it was done rather than the reason, which may or may not be the baby. Who by the way wouldn't have been sleeping anywhere near the others so taking that out of the equation.

There is a lot of projecting on this thread so I’ll add some of my own 🤣. I strongly suspect it is due to the baby but unfortunately I also suspect that it’s sort of permanent because you’ve now got a dc who doesn’t “match off” with the others. It does change the dynamic of a holiday to have one dc who is several years younger than the next youngest and who doesn’t have a peer within the group. It results in whining and also they need constant supervision at a time when the older kids are growing out of that.

But honestly, while I think it’s the most likely reason, I also think it’s the least bad one because it’s not about you. It’s just that they feel group holidays wouldn't really work and that’s true more often than not.

I am a big “ holiday with friends”’person- three in the last year but I have very good friends where I wouldn’t even consider it due to dynamics- my best friend’s kids are way younger than mine- wouldn’t work. Another good friend has 3 girls. I have one of each. Ds gets left out- wouldn’t work. Other friends just have different parenting styles that are fine for a weekend but would get painful for a week. The people I do family holidays with are probably less close friends than the ones I don’t. I also have an informal “one other family only” rule and every time I’ve broken that I’ve regretted as too much faffing/ too hard to be spontaneous with 14 people trotting along together.

In your situation is just ask them about the holiday and carry on as normal. I definitely wouldn’t lose the friendship over this.

You're also ignoring the many posters which are saying it would change the dynamic (sleep is just another issue).
Personally, I think it would be really awkward! I think I would be too chicken to tell them incase they overreacted (like many on here), I would like to be honest and upfront with them assuming they're reasonable people but reading this thread it does make me wonder. I think I would just make up something to save the drama, and obviously I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings either. Although if one of my friends was going to be weird about not being invited on holiday with their baby then that would make me question them as well. I feel my friends are all reasonable people, as am I. I feel a reasonable person would feel upset, but then also understand and not think it was a big deal (after being upset for a bit).

I agree with all that. My parents are very social and would totally agree too - after much trial and error there were only two families that worked with ours on holiday. They would have friends they liked very much but wouldn’t go away with for minor sounding reasons but can ruin a trip.

We used to go away with 5 other families for a long weekend left out quite a few other local families not that we didn’t like them but we were all on the same page with accommodation/ food /parenting / slightly roughing it and kids broadly all got on and would tolerate a pretty long hike with minimal moaning - so it just worked.

For what it's worth I've been part of a "threesome", although I have other friends too. From that three, sometimes we did things as a threesome, and sometimes they did stuff as a twosome and sometimes I did stuff as a two with each of them. Sometimes nice to do things as a two, and it's nothing against the other person. Now I have a baby, and they have grown children so I can't do as much. One of them naturally I haven't seen as much over the years and the other is my best friend. They are both friends that if I called them in the middle of the night for help (even the one who I don't see often) they'd pick me up and I'd be able to go and stay with them with no questions or problems. That to me is a true friend. Not someone who does or doesn't invite me on a night out or on the occasional holiday.

Also you are minimising the impact of the baby op because that suits your agenda - I don’t think the others would see it like that. They also can’t say so without sounding mean. I kind of get it though once you are through a challenging parenting stage you want no more part of it. Are there other families with older ones and a new baby that you get along with?