Are strong independent women 'unloveable'?

[cleanbreak2022]

For context I am 39, mother of 2 young children. Was in a 15 yr relationship which broken down due to infidelity.

I am successful in my career, I own my home (hefty mortgage) drive a nice car, holiday once a year with possibly odd weekend away thrown in, with kids or with friends.

Many years ago, before I met my ex partner, someone I worked with, an older chap that I have a huge amount of respect for, said to me 'you're far too independent, no one will ever marry you, women like you are unlovable'. I was hugely taken back by it, it wasn't said in malice, more as an observation. My career wasn't established at that point and I was a receptionist with dreams of taking over the business (I did and became the first female director on the board).

Now I've been single for 16 months (no great shakes in time) but as my kids are with their dad and I'm sitting in the garden contemplating. I wonder if this could be true?

Am I, and women like me, with independence and drive who are financially independent and know their worth simply too much for most men?

I'd love to share my life eventually, but the impression I'm getting is, I'm a fantasy. A conquest to shag and put in her place? At work, yes I have to be firm, but out of work I'm completely the opposite.

I can't help wondering whether anyone will ever take the time to find that out? That I have this big old heart, that I love to laugh and I love music. That the simplest of things make me smile.

I won't 'dumb down' for anyone, the feminist in me wouldn't allow it. I am just wondering whether I am too much? I'm not horrendous looking, soft round the edges at a size 14 I have a good time with people, just think I'm intimidating?

Some men are intimidated by women who are self- sufficient. Those are not the men you want to be with anyway! There are other men who won't feel intimidated or emasculated by your success. These are the ones you want to be with!!

The guy that told you that just sounds like a dinosaur living in his mind in the world of 50 years ago with an attitude to boot.

Many years ago, before I met my ex partner, someone I worked with, an older chap that I have a huge amount of respect for, said....

How many years ago and how old is/was he?

If it helps, my mother said something very similar about me back in the 80s
It was the prevalent view back then but not now

Am I, and women like me, with independence and drive who are financially independent and know their worth simply too much for most men?

Simple answer - no; only for some men, ie, the weak and the useless and the mollycoddled

Too much for some men....you know the shit weak ones
The ones that matter will think you're amazing 🤩

@greenlychee you're right, he is a dinosaur, but I think what he said was true.
I honestly get the impression men want to be able to say they slept with me, rather than get to know me. It's so demeaning.
I'd love to have a ride or die partner, someone who champions me, who I can also be their biggest cheerleader.

Surely the biggest compliment is that I don't need anyone, that we can mutually choose to be with each other. The choice to spend time with someone is beautiful

@FredWinnie must have been 20years ago, he wouldn't have been early 50's then. I would have been in my late teens.

@countvoncount I do know the shit weak ones! Unfortunately I know them more than I care to admit! 🤣

IME, there is nothing more attractive fir a man than a woman who doesn’t need him.

I am fiercely independent, have only being married once, if I had married every guy who has proposed I would be in my 7th marriage by now.

OP, you’re giving headspace to the sexist maunderings of a middle-aged misogynist trying to put a confident teenager in her place. Shame on you!

Surely the biggest compliment is that I don't need anyone

how do you think someone looking for a partner might feel about that comment, how would you feel if a man said that to you ?

When exh left my mum said a similar thing. She said I was ‘too competent’ and men didn’t like that - this is basically because I did diy and before dc had a good career. She felt that because I wasn’t vulnerable it would be an issue as men like to feel needed. I also read at the time that on online dating many men were put off by a woman with a masters because they were worried she’d be too clever. I have a masters.

Anyway I met dp and he is a successful man and has dated many successful women. I think the right, confident man will want someone who’s interesting and independent. It might reduce the size of your dating pool but you wouldn’t want a misogynist anyway.

Unloveable?! What a nasty thing for anyone to say to anyone!

Something I do think is true, is that most men are somewhat sexist, and therefore deep down they like to feel a little superior to their wife, whether financially or in their career success or whatever. A man has to be a very happy confident self-secure man to enjoy being with a woman who is richer and more successful than him. Weird. 🤷‍♀️

I do know three men who married women who are way ahead of them in looks, money, and career success, and those marriages are long and seem happy. But in all those cases, the men had extremely privileged upbringings, and as a result they all have a kind of happy unshakeable self confidence that enables them to be proud of their wives instead of feeling competitive. Also those men were all financially unambitious: one wanted to run a kids club, another wanted public sector power, and the other just wants to play tennis. So you could say they were kinda looking for a sponsor.

Just something I’ve observed 🤷‍♀️

The other option is to find a man who is even more successful than you are and then he can carry on secretly feeling superior. 👀

Need and want and very different things. Someone might not need you, but if they want you, that's a thing of joy

Unless they have said this to you why do you assume you are intimidating? It could be they don't like you like can be said for anyone?

I find your post insulting really, just because you have what you call 'drive' does not make you better, it is hard to explain why I think your original post makes me wary but it comes across to me that you think you have more to you than other women who make different choices than yours.

Rather than blaming men unless you have actual proof these men think this way and not just you putting it on them to make yourself feel better?

I am trying to get your thinking not trying to have a go even though I don't get your thoughts

I had similar said to me once, coincidentally (or not?) also by a middle-aged male boss (owner of the company).

Glad to say he’s wrong. I’ve been very happily married for many years and enjoy a balanced and happy marriage with my equally independent, emotional secure and lovely husband. He is my biggest supporter (and I’m his). I had pretty much given up hope by the time I met him though tbh, as I seemed to meet potential cock lodgers or men who wanted to ‘break’ me.

Strong, independent woman are not unlovable. We just want (rather than need) a partner who values our strengths rather than feels threatened by them. They are out there, but in my experience can be harder to locate!

Be proud of who you're OP.

Any man who's threatened by an independent Woman,is not the type of man you'd want anyway.
There's lots of men who want an equal partner, you just have to find them.

Family member has just met her 'one' at the age of 41.
He adores her independence.

Sadly I think despite the advancements for women a lot of men just want somebody to look after them and make their lives easier.
To start with they like the appeal of strong independent women, but they tire of it when they realise that means they are expected to behave as if they are one half of a team, not an extra child who needs to be mollycoddled and looked after.

I and all of my friends are successful, affluent, independent, capable women who all have full social lives and have never had difficulties finding good, healthy relationships with great men in similar positions themselves. I’m sure perhaps men who aren’t our equals or don’t have much going for them might find us intimidating, but those aren’t the men we look for relationships with. If it’s your consistent experience with men then think you’re missing early red flags with the men you choose to date, honestly.

OP, you need to find a man who is confident in his own skin and will be proud of a successful partner.

The ones who are intimidated by a successful woman or who see you as a bedpost notch, or as a financial opportunity aren't worth bothering with.

Yes some men are intimidated by their partners success. You might also attract cocklodgers, don't change yourself just to get a partner. Any man who's worth being with will respect your drive and independence.

I think your old colleague was talking about himself rather than in general. Some men are intimidated by strong, successful women's, some men respect that in a woman, some find it very attractive and some abusers look for that in a woman, it's all about individual tastes.

I was single in my 40s, 2 children, successful, own house, nice car, hobbies and a social life. I never struggled for male attention. Some good, other for bad reasons (cock lodgers, narcissists). I'm now married to a wonderful man who's successful in his own right. He supports me and my career but also my hobbies and social life.

Ah, the noughties. When misogynist dinosaurs knew they'd get in trouble for touching the office junior's arse in the stationery cupboard and so had to settle for destroying their confidence in other ways. Bless them,

Seriously though - why are you giving this dickwad headspace?

We are very lovable, but there are some men who don't like anyone who does well - other people in general.

I used to know someone who bullied literally everyone and would say awful things about people who achieved absolutely anything. Of course a person like that would not want to date a self-sufficient woman - she may have a leverage, or disagree with him...or even DUMP him if she realises what waste of space he is.

I'm tall and have done well and seem very confident on the surface, and I had this said to me too - I was too intimidating. I was desperate to meet a very tall man (shallow i know) and I did, but ignored many red flags and now he has left due to infidelity. I now realise I was really affected by people telling me I was intimidating. I would make very different decisions now.

If someone said they needed me I'd be running a mile.