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Original poster

Are strong independent women 'unloveable'?

136 replies

cleanbreak2022 · 09/04/2023 13:16

For context I am 39, mother of 2 young children. Was in a 15 yr relationship which broken down due to infidelity.

I am successful in my career, I own my home (hefty mortgage) drive a nice car, holiday once a year with possibly odd weekend away thrown in, with kids or with friends.

Many years ago, before I met my ex partner, someone I worked with, an older chap that I have a huge amount of respect for, said to me 'you're far too independent, no one will ever marry you, women like you are unlovable'. I was hugely taken back by it, it wasn't said in malice, more as an observation. My career wasn't established at that point and I was a receptionist with dreams of taking over the business (I did and became the first female director on the board).

Now I've been single for 16 months (no great shakes in time) but as my kids are with their dad and I'm sitting in the garden contemplating. I wonder if this could be true?

Am I, and women like me, with independence and drive who are financially independent and know their worth simply too much for most men?

I'd love to share my life eventually, but the impression I'm getting is, I'm a fantasy. A conquest to shag and put in her place? At work, yes I have to be firm, but out of work I'm completely the opposite.

I can't help wondering whether anyone will ever take the time to find that out? That I have this big old heart, that I love to laugh and I love music. That the simplest of things make me smile.

I won't 'dumb down' for anyone, the feminist in me wouldn't allow it. I am just wondering whether I am too much? I'm not horrendous looking, soft round the edges at a size 14 I have a good time with people, just think I'm intimidating?

OP posts:
greenlychee · 09/04/2023 14:01

OP it just sounds as though you are going for the wrong men. Why do you think that is?

BishopRock · 09/04/2023 14:04

JackyinaTracky · 09/04/2023 13:45

Sadly I think despite the advancements for women a lot of men just want somebody to look after them and make their lives easier.
To start with they like the appeal of strong independent women, but they tire of it when they realise that means they are expected to behave as if they are one half of a team, not an extra child who needs to be mollycoddled and looked after.

I agree. It's no fucking secret that married men live longer than single men and single women live longer than married ones.

frozendaisy · 09/04/2023 14:04

People are as unique as they come.

Some want an equal.
Some want a submissive.
Some want a dominant.

No real mystery to solve.

YoBeaches · 09/04/2023 14:05

I think a man in his 50s saying that to a young woman in her late teens knew exactly what he was doing,misogynistic prick.

They are the men who want to slow you down. Who see your ambition and want to throttle it, to piss on the "fire in your belly" and put you in your place.

You didn't let it bother you so far, so don't start now. It's utter nonsense.

Mari9999 · 09/04/2023 14:11

There are far more less successful women who are single than ambitious successful women. There is nothing to suggest that drive and ambition are tied to the success of failure of a relationship.

MoonbeamsGlittering · 09/04/2023 14:12

I'm a married father of two. You sound a lot like my wife. She is awesome. She earns more than me and that is totally fine with me.

However, this might be because I was very successful in my 20s and then deliberately downsized massively (before I met her), so I feel confident that I could have stayed a high flyer, but chose not to. I'm happy to cheer her on instead.

One issue that does come up, however, is that her career leaves less time for our relationship (deadlines, travel, stress, etc) so I guess some men might be concerned about that even if they're not insecure about your success.

cherriestort · 09/04/2023 14:16

Yes I think he was negging you.

There's a lid for every pot and there's nothing worse as a women hiding your light away from the world because you have a jealous or insecure partner.

You just have to enjoy being single until someone whose worth your time and energy comes along.

A partner should enhance your life and want wonderful things for you (and vice versa of course) so many men want to act the competent man to the outside world (guys that dress well and then you go back to their place and it's a shit hole in terms of housekeeping for example) and then act like a child within a relationship, expecting a women to look after them.

I think it's best to get all the benefits of being single rather that to settle. There are great men out there, and if your paths never cross then at least you haven't propped up a useless guy for years/decades and you're been able to enjoy your life to the fullest

MoonbeamsGlittering · 09/04/2023 14:19

Basically it sounds like you'd like to meet a confident man who is not a dickhead. That seems like a very reasonable thing to want. Those men might often be the most desirable men on general, so you may have a lot of competition, but I don't think your success would usually count against you with men like that, as long as it seemed like you still had time to have a relationship with them rather than being too busy to see them.

Original poster
cleanbreak2022 · 09/04/2023 14:19

WandaWonder · 09/04/2023 13:39

Unless they have said this to you why do you assume you are intimidating? It could be they don't like you like can be said for anyone?

I find your post insulting really, just because you have what you call 'drive' does not make you better, it is hard to explain why I think your original post makes me wary but it comes across to me that you think you have more to you than other women who make different choices than yours.

Rather than blaming men unless you have actual proof these men think this way and not just you putting it on them to make yourself feel better?

I'm sorry if you found my post insulting. I didn't compare myself to other women. I was pondering something that was said to me many years ago and wondering whether it had some truth.

I work in a very male dominated industry and it has been said to me. It wouldn't be said to a man in my position at work. One of my points was whether anyone would ever look past that persona and get to know the real me and not the person I portray at work.

I'm not measuring myself against other women or their choices compared to mine. If anything I measuring myself, against myself. Perhaps people don't like me, there's many I don't like. We're human and the beauty of the human race is no two people are the same.

OP posts:
monsteramunch · 09/04/2023 14:28

Kenny69 · 09/04/2023 13:33

Surely the biggest compliment is that I don't need anyone

how do you think someone looking for a partner might feel about that comment, how would you feel if a man said that to you ?

I think it's nice - it means if you're with someone it's because you really want to be with them, not because you 'need' to be. It mean even more IMO.

StagsLeap · 09/04/2023 14:32

ComtesseDeSpair · 09/04/2023 13:46

I and all of my friends are successful, affluent, independent, capable women who all have full social lives and have never had difficulties finding good, healthy relationships with great men in similar positions themselves. I’m sure perhaps men who aren’t our equals or don’t have much going for them might find us intimidating, but those aren’t the men we look for relationships with. If it’s your consistent experience with men then think you’re missing early red flags with the men you choose to date, honestly.

This. I don’t move in the circles of lesser-achieving men who would be intimidated by successful women, though I definitely grew up around them.

One male friend who is an award-winning architect with his own practice is just starting to date again after a divorce (from another architect) and the women he’s gone on dates with whose jobs I’ve been aware of have been a medic, a lawyer, and someone who runs a major arts festival. He’s not ‘dating down’.

washinwashoutrepeat · 09/04/2023 14:46

curlychocs · 09/04/2023 13:53

I'm tall and have done well and seem very confident on the surface, and I had this said to me too - I was too intimidating. I was desperate to meet a very tall man (shallow i know) and I did, but ignored many red flags and now he has left due to infidelity. I now realise I was really affected by people telling me I was intimidating. I would make very different decisions now.

I'm sorry. I hope that you can move on quickly and come out stronger. 😊

Buildingthefuture · 09/04/2023 14:53

No, they aren’t. He was just a Twat. I’m independent, financially and otherwise and my DH of 17 years is my biggest supporter. He is also independent but together, we make a good team. A lot (honestly, the majority) of his friends take the piss out of DH because he “has to” pack his own luggage when we go on holiday, he cooks most of the time, he takes an equal share without me having to tell him, of the household boring shite. Being dependent, financially or otherwise, on any other person has always been my nightmare (after a truly shitty first marriage). DH loves me because of, not in spite of that. It wouldn’t work for everyone obviously, but it works for us.

HappyMe6 · 09/04/2023 15:07

Horses for courses. Some men love successful highly motivated women, some don’t. I think mainly it depends how other people see you, others always see someone differently to how we see ourselves!

CreationNat1on · 09/04/2023 16:10

Insecure men date down, so they can be perceived as the provider, the alpha. There are loads of insecure men, who sneer at anyone that triggers their insecurity or jealousy. Thankfully life is not one big competition, avoid those that think it is.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 09/04/2023 16:16

Don’t listen to what some old man said a few years ago !
and don’t listen to any voices from what your ex may have said that might be lingering ….

many (most ) people want strong and Independant people
read the board here ! with people with all the cock lodgers

if your not dating it’s presumably because your not putting yourself out there ?

and that all said , I know that my ex thought i was totally sorted and had no issues
I also know that he resented his ex deeply who was also quite successful
so yeah it can come into play with some men

but if you want to meet a man and try dating on for size , what’s stopping you ?

ZirihePevzig · 09/04/2023 16:35

Of course you aren't unloveeable. You are probably considered so by misogynistic areseholes who need to feel superior to the women in their life because of deep-seated insecurities masquerading as machismo. That's ok because that kind of man isn't what you want. The good guys do exist, don't sweat it.

Ghonster · 09/04/2023 16:52

Look at it this way OP: it's a great filter so that you won't waste any time on losers, cocklodgers, misogynists, or needy/ controlling men who are looking for a deferent house servant to wash their underwear!

YankeeDad · 09/04/2023 16:52

He is full of shit. It depends on the man. I am married, but could not ever have loved, as a life partner, any woman who is not strong and independent.

kitsuneghost · 09/04/2023 17:16

No. You just need a strong independent man of similar intellect.

AmeliaEarhart · 09/04/2023 21:59

He was negging you OP. Trying to make you feel shit and desperate so he could make a move on you and you’d be all grateful.

It happened to me at a party when I was in my 20s; I got talking to a man in his 30s who asked me if I had a boyfriend. I said I had, and that we’d been together since university. He asked me if I thought we’d get married and I said “maybe”. He started shaking his head and told me “you do know that men never marry the woman they’re with in their 20s, right? He’ll string you along for another few years until you’re in your 30s and and then dump you for someone younger. You’re better off leaving him now and getting with someone older before it’s too late”. At the time I was a bit baffled at how someone I’d just met could know anything about my relationship. With hindsight it was so obvious what he trying to do! (And no, the boyfriend didn’t ditch me when we hit 30; we’ve been married for 18 years…)

Beware of blokes making generalisations about what men do and don’t like!

Bowbowbo · 09/04/2023 22:15

I’m a strong, independent woman. In the end my XH did find me unloveable, but I know exactly why: he was useless, I lost all respect for him, and it showed! He didn’t try to break me, he was just very broken himself.

My now DP thinks I’m fab and knows me through and through, the soft fuzzy me as well as the formidable me. He’s a gentle and confident man, this certainly helps!

mumyes · 09/04/2023 22:35

I'm in a similar position to you & I'm afraid to say I meet almost no suitable men that we meet my expectations.

They're either:

  1. Successful, match me in terms of drive, career, earnings etc but are absolute bastards / ruthless / no moral compass.
  1. No ambition, can't match me in terms of lifestyle / expectations, but nice / kind / accommodating etc.

I've pretty much given up!

I'm convinced the human race will die out because women are so utterly superior to men & we're starting to reqs lose this!! 😂😂 (Kinda not joking!)

WTFactuallyjusthappened · 09/04/2023 22:43

I am as you describe OP. I'm in my 50s with a marriage and a subsequent serious relationship behind me. I have two close male friends who have (separately) told me...kindly...that most men are intimidated by women like me. I know that my 'needle' (in the haystack) is somewhere and I won't dumb down to find him. If he eludes me, so be it. I've accepted that I may grow old alone.

AutisticLegoLover · 09/04/2023 22:48

I think men can find us scary and a threat. The partner of a school mum friend eyes me with great suspicion in case I give her ideas I think. I suspect he's emotionally abusive and he's certainly financially abusive from what she tells me.
We are socialised to think we are not complete without a man. Fuck that.
Men like women who make them look good. If we are more intelligent, better looking, earn more, have more, whatever, they are threatened by that because we don't enhance them, we make them look less in their eyes. We don't need them and they need to be needed. My exH is still miffed that despite me now being a SAHM and carer for my elderly mum, I don't need him for anything at all. Nothing. And neither does my daughter.