Are strong independent women 'unloveable'?

[cleanbreak2022]

For context I am 39, mother of 2 young children. Was in a 15 yr relationship which broken down due to infidelity.

I am successful in my career, I own my home (hefty mortgage) drive a nice car, holiday once a year with possibly odd weekend away thrown in, with kids or with friends.

Many years ago, before I met my ex partner, someone I worked with, an older chap that I have a huge amount of respect for, said to me 'you're far too independent, no one will ever marry you, women like you are unlovable'. I was hugely taken back by it, it wasn't said in malice, more as an observation. My career wasn't established at that point and I was a receptionist with dreams of taking over the business (I did and became the first female director on the board).

Now I've been single for 16 months (no great shakes in time) but as my kids are with their dad and I'm sitting in the garden contemplating. I wonder if this could be true?

Am I, and women like me, with independence and drive who are financially independent and know their worth simply too much for most men?

I'd love to share my life eventually, but the impression I'm getting is, I'm a fantasy. A conquest to shag and put in her place? At work, yes I have to be firm, but out of work I'm completely the opposite.

I can't help wondering whether anyone will ever take the time to find that out? That I have this big old heart, that I love to laugh and I love music. That the simplest of things make me smile.

I won't 'dumb down' for anyone, the feminist in me wouldn't allow it. I am just wondering whether I am too much? I'm not horrendous looking, soft round the edges at a size 14 I have a good time with people, just think I'm intimidating?

A guys perspective here...

No they aren't - in a nutshell.
Many men like confident, attractive women who know what they want.

BUT...

Don't emasculate men by being everything they can be. If you do that men don't feel they have a role. We need to be needed. If we aren't needed we will likely go somewhere where we are. Now when I say needed I don't mean relied upon. There is a HUGE difference.

My wife is shit at DIY stuff, I am a better cook, I'm much more outgoing and I am more creative. I see a problem and solve it. I bring the fun and discipline to our daughter's upbringing. On the other hand, she is the one that thinks things through, looks at the bigger picture, stops me running into a catastrophe! She is great at present buying! She is the one that remembers a birthday, when I don't care enough to keep on top of it. She appreciates my input and knows that I have skills/knowledge that she doesn't and vice versa.

I problem solve and she provides the nurturing, validating, compassionate stuff. Can we both do all those things? Sure. But we play on each others strengths. It is why we work.

I can't imagine hearing that I am not needed. Why the hell would I want to be with someone who views me as expendable? That is NOT AN ATTRACTIVE PROSPECT! If someone believes they don't need me in their lives then what incentive would I have to commit to that person? I need my wife, she makes my life much better and makes me a better person. She (says that she) needs me. For moral encouragement, for cheerleading when life gets hard, running past things when she is a bit stuck.

Men (and women) MUST have a role, a purpose. I think the problem with society today as that whilst women's rights and equality have made significant strides in the past 100 years, men have lost meaning. Women can now get a mortgage, get and hold high positions of power, have kids on their own, have social lives etc. That is BRILLIANT! And at the same time what are men left with? Being on hand for when they are convenient? No self-respecting man would accept that. I am a huge admirer of women, there have been some wonderful women in my life (many more than men TBH). Women must have respect and men also need to have enough self-respect to push back and not tolerate being relegated to "additional extra".

@StagsLeap "OP, you’re giving headspace to the sexist maunderings of a middle-aged misogynist trying to put a confident teenager in her place. Shame on you!"

God forbid a woman with intelligence, critical thinking and nuance contemplates a different world view to her own! How dare she!? You realise you can hold two opposing positions simultaneously and work through them, right?

@Ghonster "cocklodgers"

What the hell is a cocklodger!?

Equality sure feels like oppression when you’ve been used to privilege, huh?

I’m sure you wrote this with the best of intentions but you sound like a classic misogynist. The traits you’ve described are not inherently gendered, but the fact that you believe they are has led you to be, by your own admission, a thoughtless and unreliable husband who forgets birthdays, doesn’t think of the bigger picture and needs to be stopped making stupid choices.

And no, I don’t believe men need to be needed and have a purpose and that that’s an inherently manly thing. That’s just a classic example of how the patriarchy is bad for men too, because it fills your head with these ideas that you have to be a leader and a provider and some kind of indispensable superman. No thanks. I don’t need my partner, and he doesn’t need me. We’d both be perfectly fine and happy if we were single. We choose to be together because we enjoy it. But it isn’t a need, and neither of us would want it to be.

Op. The relationships board is full of women complaining about their partners sponging off them, not paying their way mailing them feel
Worthless etc. your dating pool will be smaller because you would never put up with that. The men who do respect / fancy your for your drive, independence and success will
Be a far better type of man so yea you might attract less deadbeats but that's not a bad thing

Everyone is different. Some people prefer fried eggs, some people prefer boiled eggs. Some men prefer meek domesticated women some prefer strong independent women.

Wow, I have absolutely found this thread fascinating.

Honestly, I thank you all for your input.

I have found all the different perspectives informative. I have certainly taken a lot of food for thought.

Personally, I think what is clear, I need to broaden my social circles/dating pool. That will be a conscious effort. Stepping outside of my comfort zone.

Certainly there are women who have experienced much the same as I have, but there have been people to accept and admire those personality traits.

I think going through the trauma of infidelity (as we all know reading the relationship board) really makes you question your sense of self. The act of infidelity isn't just a betrayal, but it rocks the very foundations of how you have always believed yourself to be perceived. Every slight, every passive aggressive or indeed intentionally aggressive comment, comes back to haunt you. To play on your self belief. As one poster mentioned, so many women, blame themselves for others short comings. I'm not sure why that is our natural default. I believe it has been mine.

I admire the self assurance and self confidence of the posters who have so far contributed.

Quoting another poster 'birds of a feather, flock together'. That works both ways, positively and negatively. Perhaps I've been experiencing the wrong type of person, for me, and judging myself for that.

@Burgoo Don't emasculate men by being everything they can be

If your partner can be everything you can be and more then the smart moves are (1) to be thrilled that such a superstar chose you, and support them, or (2) step up your efforts to meet their awesomeness in your own areas of strength. Both are likely to lead to greater happiness all round!

But apparently what you'd choose is for them to save your feelings by pretending to be less than they are, or otherwise for you to ditch them for someone less great.

It's especially sad given that you say you're the main problem solver in your relationship, because these are bad options.
Maybe if you encouraged your wife to take more of an active role in problem solving - which, after all, can be a deeply nurturing act - you'll actually see your life together improve.

'Strong independent woman' is often code for a bit of a nightmare. Perhaps an office bully using the types of behaviours men wouldn't dare as they know they'd be on a HR charge.

Not saying you are OP but that's how many men perceive such women. A red flag as this board would put it (they don't just apply to men).

We need to be needed...

...She stops me running into a catastrophe! She is great at present buying! She is the one that remembers a birthday, when I don't care enough to keep on top of it...

...I problem solve and she provides the nurturing, validating, compassionate stuff...

I would run a mile from you, you sound deeply unattractive. But if your wife likes to look after a man child who can't be bothered to share the mental load of life she can crack on.

@Burgoo, don’t be silly, dear. I suggest you ‘work through’ your own substantial issues, like the fact that you’re expendable.