Are strong independent women 'unloveable'?

[cleanbreak2022]

For context I am 39, mother of 2 young children. Was in a 15 yr relationship which broken down due to infidelity.

I am successful in my career, I own my home (hefty mortgage) drive a nice car, holiday once a year with possibly odd weekend away thrown in, with kids or with friends.

Many years ago, before I met my ex partner, someone I worked with, an older chap that I have a huge amount of respect for, said to me 'you're far too independent, no one will ever marry you, women like you are unlovable'. I was hugely taken back by it, it wasn't said in malice, more as an observation. My career wasn't established at that point and I was a receptionist with dreams of taking over the business (I did and became the first female director on the board).

Now I've been single for 16 months (no great shakes in time) but as my kids are with their dad and I'm sitting in the garden contemplating. I wonder if this could be true?

Am I, and women like me, with independence and drive who are financially independent and know their worth simply too much for most men?

I'd love to share my life eventually, but the impression I'm getting is, I'm a fantasy. A conquest to shag and put in her place? At work, yes I have to be firm, but out of work I'm completely the opposite.

I can't help wondering whether anyone will ever take the time to find that out? That I have this big old heart, that I love to laugh and I love music. That the simplest of things make me smile.

I won't 'dumb down' for anyone, the feminist in me wouldn't allow it. I am just wondering whether I am too much? I'm not horrendous looking, soft round the edges at a size 14 I have a good time with people, just think I'm intimidating?

For me, that's a good thing.

I'd want a partner who wants me, not someone who needs me.

I do think there's a grain of truth there.

it's important to show vulnerability as it shows the emotional you. Being strong, independent, career focused means we have to shut that side down a lot of the time. I would be careful when dating not to be in 'work mode' and to open up to deeper conversations that might lead to that important 'connection' and 'chemistry' that kicks off a relationship

I think there is a grain of truth in it. Women tend to marry up and me marry down. I think that means it can take a bit more time to do find a decent one if you're successful. But look, even Mrs Thatcher got a husband who by all accounts was devoted to her.

You've just come out of a long term relationship, I think that should be a good indicator!

For what it's worth, being a capable, independent woman is not unusual. Just like any other character or personality, meeting the right person can be trial and error

I have been described as 'fierce' by my friend's husbands. I am the only female C-Suite executive in our social circle. A few of the husbands actively insult me at parties. They belittle the companies I work for. However I know these men to be abusive to their wives or children. We now actively avoid them. Some of the wives stay for the lifestyle.
I met my husband when I was 21 and he was 24. We have been married for over thirty years. We have two grown up DC.
We have had a few divorces and one death in this group of old friends. None of my single friends want new husbands. We are older than you OP so the pool is smaller. My girlfriends are mostly graduates but have family money. They come from a different era. They won't give up their independence or share their homes again but are perhaps 20 years older than you. Some date, some don't. My husband has never been intimidated by me. He knows the real me! Join a few clubs, art, history etc. Go to a summer school and see who you meet. There is indeed a lid for every pot!

My mum still says to me that it takes a certain sort of man to take me on 😂 I think (hope) she means it as a compliment!

I’ve been divorced and had several disastrous relationships, but whether I can lay this at the door of my independence is debatable — in fact, I’d say it was more that I put my own needs and true personality aside to make men happy. They still weren’t though!

My current partner of 5 years (with a small blip last year) is totally on Team Boston; he says there is nothing more attractive than an independent woman. He means it, but, as PPs have said, I think some men like the theory of that but not the practice.

The only “problem” I have now (not really a problem currently as we live apart and are both happy like that, no plans to cohabit etc) is that I would be loath to give up my hard-won independence for any man. I’ve become quite selfish in my 40s — love my solitude and time spent studying, working, reading etc alone — but I have to say I’ve not felt more like “me” since I was a child. That is a lovely feeling.

Give zero fucks what other people think of you OP. If you find a man who suits you, that’s great. If not, be proud of who you are and content in your awesomeness!

No, I’m like you and happily married. Several of my friends are too.
our husbands aren’t intimidated, they are proud of us. They also sought out somebody independent, intelligent and capable.
These men are out there

I think he’s right, but only because there is a vanishingly small pool of men who can cope with being an equal to a strong woman.

The issue is him not you. Unfortunately some men are i to Ida's by strong women but that's their problem not yours. The only annoying thing is that we end up with our dating pool reduced. But the right man will be your biggest champion, and not try to tear you down like the moron you quoted in your OP.

My husband is amazing- he is proud of everything I achieve and he is my biggest supporter. He took the kids out loads while I worked on finishing my PhD. I know I'm lucky to have found him though.

Why do you feel you have to shut down major parts of your personality in order to be strong, independent and career focussed?

That is totally environmental - being groomed to act a certain way, or to mirror male behaviours - as the OP says her persona at work is different to who she is at home.

Women need to avoid doing this. There is huge value in being a woman in the workplace. We think differently. We make different decisions. Companies are more successful with women at the top - and less of the misogynists who say shit like 'you're too independent ' try to keep you in your place.

Independence, strength, career focussed doesn't have to equal emotionally bare - it's just that women have been told that's the price you have to pay. You can't be a loving mother, wife and strong independent career woman at the same time. It's not possible.

Fuck that.

Really? Many successful independent people are in relationships. I doubt it's to do with that. Maybe it's online dating (if that's how you're meeting people) and partly the way you come across to people. You seem a bit aggressive and to have your guard up. That would put me off someone straight away.

No. Give it no more headspace.

I'm very independent because I've had to be. If I'd say around waiting to be saved what then?

Shit men might feel like this. But then you don't want them either.

I've got an ex friend who relies on her parents and husband of a few months. What happens when they die and he gets sick if her? Which he will, they all do.

You expressed that much, much better than I could, thanks.

Hear hear! Having to perform emotional vulnerability so some guy isn’t intimidated by my success would not endear me to Mr Insecure.

I am like you. Ambitious with high self-esteem.

I understand what you are on about completely. You are the type of friends I am attracted to.

What's your star sign I wonder?

I find it Really strange anyone could ever find what you said insulting:).

Usually, a woman who would like to achieve as much financially as you and evies you that you have already achieved it by the age of 39 but due to different life choices (s) she hasn't and is often not going to because most of our career success we achieve when we are younger and have more ambition and energy for that. The truth of life.

But it's ok, We are all different with different strengths, weaknesses & character traits as for our careers & personal life.

It's a common fact.

The higher goals you set for yourself, the more you can achieve.

He is a weak man who said this to you.

A successful career man would never say it and would truly appreciate your financial achievements.

Start dating actively and find your right match.

I found mine.

I've had similar said to me too & tbh I found there's a lot of men who have a problem with a woman who earns more than them, wants them rather than needs them and doesn't tolerate crap.

Rightly or wrongly, started dating men more simpler to me. My partner loves me for my ambition,intellect and independence. He appreciates the fact I'm with him or absolutely no other reason than I want to be.

Don't take weak, insecure men and the problem goes away.

I completely understand where you are coming from. Now I am much older, I can look back and see where my relationships went wrong.

I was very successful in my career and yes I understand that feeling that men who like a challenge just want to sleep with you but not have a relationship. The relationships I did have varied between those who were uncomfortable with my success (despite their protestations to the contrary) to those who were very weak and wanted me to take the lead in everything all the time. I clashed with the former and got bored with the latter.

None of the relationships were a great success and I have accepted that it is probably my fault not theirs. I know I am a very difficult person to live with but I am not unloved - I have been loved by all these men, but I was never happy because I am generally an intolerent person (now diagnosed with ASD).

If I was starting again, I would talk more and try to explain my perspective. I would ask for space to be myself whilst still being there for them. I still feel love and affection towards most of my ex partners but would not go back. It is a difficult balance to get right and I admire people who can stay in imperfect long-term relationships.

My guess is that you have just been unlucky. Being in a 15 year relationship suggests to me that you have been loved and so I am sure you can find it again. Be proud of the fact that you are now a successful independent single mother - confidence is very attractive and so I have no doubt that you will soon find someone else who will fall in love with you.

No that’s not true. Men who like power over women will not be interested. Men who want a women not to have options will not be interested. A capable, strong confident successful woman will still be vulnerable with their chosen partner and will still need them. But these women can choose how vulnerable to be and can ensure the partner is the right one before going there. Most men IME are happy with this although it may throw them at beginning stages as this kind of trust takes time to earn and so they can feel insecure.

I don't feel comfortable feeling "needed".

one of my friends said "the great thing about getting married later in life is you know you'll be fine if it falls apart".

OP I'm afraid I think the majority think like your friend, or see women like us as meal tickets. So you have to be careful. There might well be someone out there for you but there might not.

You are way overthinking this bollocks. I’m an independent, high earning career woman with a kid, a dog and a house and I’m fucking awesome and have a great new boyfriend who likes me just as I am. I think I’m pretty lovable!!

I consider myself to be independent, perfectly able to look after myself. When I met my DH I was a single parent, in a decent job, own (mortgaged) home etc etc.

It never occurred to me that I might be unloveable! Any decent man will be looking for an equal life partner. Any man who is put off just because a woman is independent isn't worth knowing anyway.

Personally I would consider any man who felt threatened by a strong, independent woman to be unlovable, rather than the woman! 🤷🏻‍♀️ It's an indicator that they are either bitter and hateful, or misogynistic and looking for a weaker woman who will wait on them and defer to them, or controlling/ abusive and can see you won't be a viable target for that, or hopelessly unintelligent, or a lazy underachiever/ cocklodger. None of these men are men you want!

Somebody said it makes your dating pool smaller. This is true, but only in the sense that it's an auto-filter: it excludes all of the people you'd never want to date anyway and saves you wasting time having to wade through the scum to find men worth your time. So don't despair OP! Although as another PP said, the older I get the less I can understand why capable, intelligent and successful women would want the hassle of a man in their life, anyway.

My experience has been the opposite - my mother is a remarkably strong woman and my Dad worships her. I guess I've been brought up in a similar mould and would certainly consider myself independent and successful - characteristics that have been like catnip for some of my potential suitors!

I've been with my current partner for the best part of 18 years, making it to the top of my profession in that time, and I know he feels a deeply held sense of admiration for what I have achieved - and on a more superficial level he finds my "fiesty" nature extremely sexy.