Friendships, why are they so hard?

[ReformedWaywardTeen]

I've never been very good at making friends.

I'm now late 40s and have about two friends, but they still live in my home town so I very rarely see them and we don't tend to text or stuff (busy lives, children etc).

As a result, my life consists of my DH (huge amount of friends, uber confident, very good looking for a guy in his late 50s and looks about 40), DD and DS.

I've tried since being a Mum to make friends for the good of my DCs. Both are now mid teens. DS is shy (has SEN) but has a lovely friendship group. DD is more like their Dad but recently fell out with their oldest friends because of a boy (not due to DD, who is gay, boy didn't like her and made her life miserable, typical teen girl silliness when boys are involved).

However, anytime I've thought I've made friends, eventually, just as I'm getting used to it, enjoying it, something happens and they either ghost me or get nasty.

It started at school where I was literally the school joke. I felt like a leper at school, boys would say stuff like "eugh ain't that your bird" so the boy they said it to would go "what that thing" and they'd all laugh. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 17.

My SILs bar one don't like me, don't include me in family stuff when the women go out. I have no contact with my own family, my mum made no secret of her disappointment in me compared to my younger siblings.

How I met DH and made him want to be with me I've no idea. He's such a huge force.

We moved from my home town when DD was born. Schools I thought meant friends. Nope. They were toxic, very posh and I'm not. I was quiet and unassuming, never pushy, it's not in me to be. But I was just ignored, never invited to mum meet ups.

We moved again due to necessity and I actually made a group of mum friends. Except the leader decided after a year she didn't like me and that was it. She was incredibly nasty about me. And I've honestly tried to work out why and can't. I literally am polite I don't make waves and I help out as much as I can when someone needs help. But it wasn't good enough

I joined DHs friendship group and they don't like me either. One was outright rude to me at one point but then they moved away. I posted on here though that DH pushed me to have a birthday dinner and no one turned up, messaged, phoned. Nothing. He has carried on speaking to them and seeing them which hurts actually. They humiliated me.
He said they all had excuses.

I think it's now effecting my marriage. He said he doesn't know why I don't want friends. That it's "weird" and that I'm constantly miserable.

But I feel so done with trying to be a good person and make people like me and inevitably they don't. I'm not someone who argues or foists my opinion on others. Some of the group are very political but I don't join in with that because I worry they will hate me quicker

I am baffled. Considering my own mum rejected me is it any wonder others do?

I don't want to lose DH but every time another group dismisses me I feel like he starts to think I'm not worth it either. Friends are everything to him.

Am I just that unlikeable?

Does anyone else have this issue? Why can't I make friends? Why when I do do they end up hating me? Is it weird that I would rather just not bother after so many negative rejections?

I remember your thread about the birthday dinner and I am very sorry that you had that experience.

However my suggestion would be to try and move your focus away from 'making friends' and concentrate on activities you like doing ... I have moved a lot but I always find things to do, groups to join, volunteer, local interest etc and then I meet like minded people .. they may not necessarily become 'friends' but they will (probably!) be pleasant people with a shared interest. I've spent this morning volunteering at a project, sometimes we meet up for coffee afterwards... sometimes we don't - but I have come home with a sense of achievement for the volunteering we have done and have had a nice chat with several people.

Agree with Ragwort above. When we pursue friendship in and of itself it tends to elude us. When we pursue shared activities it is more likely to naturally arise, but we have to try to do this without too much attachment to results. You could even get a job where you might meet new people - e.g. couple of nights in a bar - or voluteering at an allotment or something. They tend to grow over time like a garden that is tended!

But I too struggle a lot especially as I get older. So I think it's an age thing as much as anything else. we live in a strange society these days.

It does sound odd that so many of them don’t like you?

You sound a bit vulnerable OP, and I wonder if that is how you come across and sadly, that means you may be off putting and too needy for some and for others, be the butt of bullying.

It doesn't sound as though your DH does a lot for your self esteem and I wonder how congruent you are as a couple? If he has loads of friends but they aren't friendly with you, maybe they are not your sort of people but you see it as your problem rather than their problem?

I hesitate to say (because it isn't that helpful and is not intended to be unkind) that maybe you are being over sensitive about people not liking you and that you worry too much about that. As others have said, pursuing friendships for the sake of being a friend is a endless pursuit towards setting yourself up for rejection and a better plan is to pursue activities that you like through which you will meet people with whom you have something in common.

I've had trouble with a DH who has lots of acquaintances/friends and thinking they don't like me but I have come to think that it's about them, not me and I've started to think hard about who I like and want to spend time with. I've come to the conclusion that people are mostly concerned with themselves, not you most people don't see you!

I think it does get more difficult with age, making friends is hard work and I am one of those who sometimes grumbles that if I make an effort, friends appear but they don't make an effort themselves for me. I have thought in the last year made two really good friends, so I think you just have to persevere. I do though also think you need to look at your self esteem. This is a really good online course about developing self esteem, https://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Self-Esteem. doubtless there are others here in the UK.

Hi OP I am in the same position as you and it's tough. Wfh these days so friendships that were bound by work etc are no more and we moved quite recently so have left some people behind geographically. I agree with the pp above that once past a certain age it is hard to make friends in and of themselves, there has to be a shared activity be that work, a hobby, class etc. As someone who was also rejected by their mother i understand what you are saying about feeling sensitive about rejection by friends. I am deliberately living a bit of a solitary life outside of dh and kids atm and am working on accepting myself totally in the now, eg am trying to give myself what my mother didn't give me and friendships haven't been able to give me. I am trying not to sociable for a bit and to immerse myself in my family and myself and work obvs.

The upshot is i'm starting to feel better and stronger and also have got my power back a bit after chasing after unfulfilling neither here nor there friendships. In a few years when my kids are a bit more independent i may have another go at joining a club or volunteering but if it doesnt happen, for whatever reason, ive come to the conclusion that i can be my own best friend and maybe that's enough.

I did try and join a hobby but the groups were very insular and I felt that I didn't fit in.

Even going to Mum and Toddlers with DD when she was little was awful, I went to two different ones both ended the same way. I would sit down with the group when everyone had their tea and cake, and the minute I did, the other mums got up and moved away.

It's like I radiate something

And no, not neediness. I may come across as shy but not needy, I laugh and join in but I don't instigate things. I don't try and stand out.

It's just weird. I'd understand if I was demanding, rude, up my own arse, gobby and loud. But I'm not. I would literally help anyone!

But yeah, it's harder still because I don't understand why or what I do to make this happen

The key to all of this, is your mother's rejection. Have you worked through that and processed it? Never underestimate the pain of childhood and how the effects of this trauma can follow us through to adulthood.

you sound like a lovely person but I wonder if you are ever really comfortable in showing others the real you, the ' warts and all' version who can express their own likes and dislikes and wants and needs? Or if you've fell into the role of the people pleaser,because that place feels more comfortable to you even though the results haven't paid off?

I probably am quite happy to fade into the background, I hate confrontation too. It's self preservation sometimes.

I did have counselling over two years prior to DD being born. I was petrified that I would be a poor Mum because my mum and her mum was vile too and she was non contact with her and her family. I felt like history repeated itself with her and her relationship with me as eldest and was genuinely fearful of having a child myself in case I turned into her overnight.

The counselor made me appreciate that I didn't choose for her to be so horrible to me. She actually used the term mentally abusive, I guess it would also be termed gaslighting now too.

I know I naturally expect people to not like me so I tend to let DH take the lead. He doesn't get it at all, but why would he, he has always had great friendships people love him. And I love that for him, he would get bored just being at home with no mates so I don't begrudge it at all. I think he comes from a good place in that he thinks I look lonely and I don't have much of a positive outlook. I tend to expect everything to go wrong. Usually because it does.

Based on your posts you come off to me as... Bland? You don't express opinions, you don't participate in politics (I assume u also don't participate in any topics that may be contentious). You don't start things, you don't stand out.

So basically you are just sat there quietly smiling politely doing nothing, making people think u are silently judging them or that you lack any personality?
If that's how u act around people why would they want you to come to a meetup? If you just gonna silently sit there until u are spoken to?

You don't instigate but you also don't emit any reason for people to instigate either. If I saw someone just sat there not perticipating in any way I wouldn't approach them I would assume they want to be left alone.

Stop being scared of rustling people's feathers, have an opinion on things, respectfully share your opinions give people a reason to want to get to know you better.

Hope I don't come off as mean, I am a very direct person 😅

Also read up on self fulfilling prophecy.

You expect people to not like you so consciously or not you behave in a way that makes people not like you thus proving yourself right.

I do talk! Sorry if that's not what came across.
I just don't try and be argumentative when it comes to contentious topics but I don't sit mute. I do contribute. So no not silently judging or without personality.

Although that said when I do join in conversations people tend to talk over me so there's that

I think a big part of it is how happy you are OP. That makes a big difference to how successfully I can make friends. If I am feeling happy I am brimming with confidence and naturally a lot more positive and bouncy and easy to connect with people. Unfortunately due to many complexes in my mind, past trauma, difficult life situation that's less often these days. So I am trying to find ways to make myself happy - losing weight, looking good, doing fun things. These kind of things make me happy - what could make you happier in general? What are your loves and passions, how can you work on these and doing things that bring you joy? When you are joyous people are naturally more drawn to you. Sometimes hard to forget to schedule in some fun things to do. Even if you don't have friends to do them with, you can do them with family / husband / kids or even alone.

Your family background sounds like an abusive nightmare , good on you for gong to counselling and getting help to disentangle the damage done to you. The problem is, the past trauma doesn't really go away so easily and it's obviously had a massive effect on how you view yourself and specifically, how you relate to others. You sound like a very loveable nice person OP - you have a husband who sees that, now it's about showing the rest of the world that!

I think it's really about revealing a bit more about yourself - not just the good parts where you're happy to help anyone/act agreeable/not be confrontational by expressing an opinion..but to be a bit more authentic and actually weirdly enough, a little less nice. Because people are suspicious of others who seem too good to be true, or if you're unlucky enough to run into narcissistic bullying types, they'll see your niceness as weakness and will be keen to exploit it.

so go out and there and start slow - have an opinion even if it is contrary to what others may be saying, talk about a topic that YOU find enjoyable rather than being a passive vessel, speak out if someone hurts or offends you - let people see who you really are. This way friends will come . Yes you'll meet resistance by some who will try and shut you down, or ignore your input or who will decide you're not their cup of tea, but that's fine that's life we can't like everyone, but others WILL like you and want to pursue a friendship.

Im going to suggest something else. It does cost money. But if you can afford it I think it would be worth it
A therapist - but not a councellor. A psychologist. One who understands and provides therapy around family dynamics. Go once a week. They can also help with mindset.
Show them what you have written here. They should be able to give you the tools to improve your self esteem and also to start to make steps towards friendships.

Look into volunteering - an area that interests you.

Maybe also a club. But go to the club to learn something new eg a language or a skill. If friendship comes from that then all to the good. But if not it’s time in the company of line minded individuals. Or on a local Facebook group propose a book club. Women only. Meet in a pub monthly. Choose a book each and allocate books to each month . You probably need at least 8 members as some weeks people will not come or drop out. This kind of group has structure and expectations. Some books even have questions as the end for a book club to talk about or Google for questions to ask the group.

If you can go on a date once a week/once a fortnight with your DH. Approach it like a date. Get a bit dressed up. Try something new together - a painting class/walk in the woods/go swimming. It will demonstrate to you that you are capable of small talk/fun and trying something different.

It can be difficult to meet people. Many are in their set routines. Not looking for friendship and closed minded to it. But there are people out there who do want it. And they could be what you are looking for. You may have to meet some frogs to make friends. But that’s ok. Put it behind you and move on! Good luck

@ReformedWaywardTeen Are you the OP where only one man turned up to your birthday party and you left upset and went home. I don't blame you - he was the nicest of what sounds a sh*tty lot.
I have no advice and would be sad too. I keep an eye out if in company in case there is someone a bit shy and awkward ( as I was but have improved ) to include them in the chat.
Sad to say a lot of the time "nice guys finish last".
I noticed that the loud, popular ones are only really interested in themselves and their immediate family and are not very empathetic.

Hi OP. I remember your thread and felt sad for you with your Birthday party.
I think you need to start to worry less about others and what they think of you. You sound like a lovely person but may suffer with low self-esteem due to your family life growing up.
You only need 1 or 2 friends in your life that will always treat you well and not turn on you on a drop of a hat. People can be funny but don't blame yourself.
Can you join a group? Maybe a gym class, hobby, walking group, anything you are interested in. Could you have a date night with your DH once a week. Doesn't have to be expensive but a visit to the pub or film night/bottle of wine at home. You have to build your confidence and know you are worth it.
I was the same as you. We moved away from somewhere I grew up, 3 small DC's at the time and thought I would meet some great mums from the area. I didn't fit in at all. They were posh and I'm not. DD was bullied badly so had to move her to a different school at the time. The gossip was awful and cruel. I really wanted to go back to my old life. I hated living here, felt guilty with my DD and it did cause arguments with my DH as nothing changed for him apart from where we lived. He also has alot of friends where I felt very isolated and miserable. I decided to stop thinking why I felt it was difficult to make friends when I had a lovely friendship where I grew up and was always sociable. I had my DC's to think about so I just gradually started to do things with my DC's or by myself. I met up with my old friends in the school Holidays but couldnt visit all the time as we moved far away. 15 years on I have a few local friends I met through a hobby and gym classes. I pop into my local once or twice a week with DH so we know a few people we know from our village. I tend to know who I want to spend my time with. I did make a couple of mum friends but they are a bit flakey but I know it is their problem, not mine. I cant be bothered with friendships if they are up and down especially being grown women. You have to start to stop worrying about friendships as it will happen when you lease expect it. I also haven't any family around me so when you feel lonely and wonder why you can't be accepted or left out of situations it does hurt. Try and focus and do something that makes you happy. You will be fine. You are not on your own. Plus I find, now my 3 DC's are older, they are good company and I enjoy spending time with them. Good luck.

My bad then op it seems to have gotten the wrong impression from your posts x

Can I just add, I'm not massively bothered if I have friends or not. It's more DH saying he thinks I'm miserable and negative because I have no one other than him and our DCs.

I'm probably negative sometimes but that's because we've had a tough few years and I'm worried currently about DD and their exams after Covid took them out of school for so long, I'm cross they aren't getting any help from the exam boards like the last few years have.
I'm also worried about money and we rent and our landlord is crap. I'm not negative, I'm a realist and I don't do as he does which have the attitude of everything is going to be fine when time and again, no, it's not. And it's like that for alot of people now, more than ever.
It's fine to try and see positives but Christ his blindness or refusal to see it's everywhere and people are struggling as we are is irritating as hell.

Our area doesn't have clubs or things. We have a swimming pool but I'm not big on swimming. I don't even own a costume. There are pubs, mum and toddler groups but that's it. Pubs are just crap here, quite trouble, he goes to one in the next town over. And I don't really want to go back there after my birthday, in fact I've never seen any of them since from there.

He reckons they've all asked why not as I used to go on Friday evening or Saturday. He has said I'm busy with DD and their exams. I wish
he would just be honest and say she doesn't really want to see you lot after the birthday. He thinks that's childish though.

I don't know why I can't just stay as I am but he reckons it's weird to have no one outside the family home and I don't go anywhere other than shopping and that's not a social outlet.

Oh OP, this is a really sad thread. I think you need to stop the pursuit of friends, but just make a life for yourself, doing things where you can't really be rejected, if that's how you perceive it. Just fill your time a bit. Go to an exercise class, you don't need to make friends there but you're with others and you're out of the house, so that's a start. Maybe you could do some volunteering? I think if you work on having a full and busy life, then friendships might come, or they might not, but you need to do things that make you happy regardless.

I remember your post about your birthday dinner, OP, and while it was a horrible thing to have happen, it wasn’t personal - and yet it hit you very deeply.
I am thinking if you can go to a trauma specializing therapist and heal the wound from your mother, things might start coming together.

oddly, one of the keys to “making people like you” is to learn deep into your very bones that you cannot make people like you, and that anything you try to make that happen will come across as somewhat disingenuous - because it is.
Once you are truly, unapologetically yourself, people who are compatible with you will be drawn to you, and it won’t be such an effort.

setting aside your husband and his outgoing nature for a minute -

you need to learn to be your own best friend and absolute best advocate, and the fastest way to do that is to heal.

I know what I’m talking about, because I used to have a similar struggle to what you are describing.
the birthday mishap would have hurt me so deeply - but the person I am now would laugh it off! It’s all due to healing the wound that told me that I was rejected, unlovable, an unwanted stray cat.

that ache inside CAN be healed, but until it is, I would suggest that you might be looking to the wrong people for friendship, as right now you very likely don’t have strong boundaries, and aren’t shutting out people who aren’t emotionally healthy people.

so what happens, if this is the case, is that their behavior seems personal, when In reality, they might be crappy, unkind people to everyone, but many people walk away & don’t continue looking for friendship.

it’s just a guess - this is all just a guess, without knowing you - the only thing I have to go by is your perception of your birthday dinner vs the hints that it wasn’t personal, and the perceived rejection is still hurting you to the point where you don’t even want your husband to be friends with those people!

you must become your own best friend, supporter, advocate, and defender, OP. I hope you find a good therapist who can heal that wound - there’s a huge, eye-opening amount of life on the other side!

Hmmmm. also: you CAN stay as you are.
you do not need to be pushed to be social, if you like your alone time.
my goodness, how awful - I love my peace and quiet, and someone insisting there was anything wrong with me for enjoying life without constant people around, well, they’d soon see themselves ushered out my door.

can’t he accept you as you are, and realize that his chosen gregarious life is not for everyone?

that puts a new light on things, OP. you do not need to force yourself to be more social in order to please someone else.

It does sound as though as long as you are together with him this will be an issue, unless you address it. Because by constantly bringing it up it is hammering your confidence. Almost becoming a bad cycle!

How is your relationship overall? Is it worth staying in?

Yes it is.

I don't think he intends to be pushy, it's more that he enjoys being in a group and having friends and an social group/outlet. He believes this makes him happy and when life is a bit crap he has friends to cheer him up. He thrives off it. Even in lockdown, he would spend hours on the phone to friends, literal hours and hours. It kept him going.

Me, meanwhile, was pleased that I finally had an excuse to be inside! Maybe lockdown really made me change my mind on trying hard to be a social person.
I do expect rejection, because I've always been rejected.

I did have counselling, it was with a specialist for the poster who suggested that. It did help a bit but it more made me see I wasn't responsible for my mother's behaviour towards me and the subsequent bullying I experienced. It helped a bit but I do have low self esteem. I've got very few interests either. I didn't go to clubs or things as a kid, we didn't have the money to, I never went to discos or parties. I like music but that's an indoors thing really, I'm not about to start going clubbing as that would horrify me and I'm far too old.

So I'm at a loss. Maybe I would be happier with a group of friends. But I don't know. My expectation is to never quite fit in anywhere.

Sometimes it's better to stop trying if the trying to make friends just makes you feel worse. Focus on what you enjoy doing at least for a time.

I'm not convinced that any company is better than no company myself.