Friendships, why are they so hard?

[ReformedWaywardTeen]

I've never been very good at making friends.

I'm now late 40s and have about two friends, but they still live in my home town so I very rarely see them and we don't tend to text or stuff (busy lives, children etc).

As a result, my life consists of my DH (huge amount of friends, uber confident, very good looking for a guy in his late 50s and looks about 40), DD and DS.

I've tried since being a Mum to make friends for the good of my DCs. Both are now mid teens. DS is shy (has SEN) but has a lovely friendship group. DD is more like their Dad but recently fell out with their oldest friends because of a boy (not due to DD, who is gay, boy didn't like her and made her life miserable, typical teen girl silliness when boys are involved).

However, anytime I've thought I've made friends, eventually, just as I'm getting used to it, enjoying it, something happens and they either ghost me or get nasty.

It started at school where I was literally the school joke. I felt like a leper at school, boys would say stuff like "eugh ain't that your bird" so the boy they said it to would go "what that thing" and they'd all laugh. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 17.

My SILs bar one don't like me, don't include me in family stuff when the women go out. I have no contact with my own family, my mum made no secret of her disappointment in me compared to my younger siblings.

How I met DH and made him want to be with me I've no idea. He's such a huge force.

We moved from my home town when DD was born. Schools I thought meant friends. Nope. They were toxic, very posh and I'm not. I was quiet and unassuming, never pushy, it's not in me to be. But I was just ignored, never invited to mum meet ups.

We moved again due to necessity and I actually made a group of mum friends. Except the leader decided after a year she didn't like me and that was it. She was incredibly nasty about me. And I've honestly tried to work out why and can't. I literally am polite I don't make waves and I help out as much as I can when someone needs help. But it wasn't good enough

I joined DHs friendship group and they don't like me either. One was outright rude to me at one point but then they moved away. I posted on here though that DH pushed me to have a birthday dinner and no one turned up, messaged, phoned. Nothing. He has carried on speaking to them and seeing them which hurts actually. They humiliated me.
He said they all had excuses.

I think it's now effecting my marriage. He said he doesn't know why I don't want friends. That it's "weird" and that I'm constantly miserable.

But I feel so done with trying to be a good person and make people like me and inevitably they don't. I'm not someone who argues or foists my opinion on others. Some of the group are very political but I don't join in with that because I worry they will hate me quicker

I am baffled. Considering my own mum rejected me is it any wonder others do?

I don't want to lose DH but every time another group dismisses me I feel like he starts to think I'm not worth it either. Friends are everything to him.

Am I just that unlikeable?

Does anyone else have this issue? Why can't I make friends? Why when I do do they end up hating me? Is it weird that I would rather just not bother after so many negative rejections?

I can quite understand how you felt about the birthday party. It did seem odd that few came. They may have all had valid reasons but still... That would piss me off too.

It is nice to have some friends. They should be the sort you can trust implicitly though you should also have some that are just 'fun'. The ones you trust you could whinge too about family etc etc knowing it won't be telegraphed! It is also nice to go out for coffee/wine/cinema/whatever.

As with volunteering, even if you don't end up with friends you will at least have someone saying "Good Morning".

I have two sets of friends. The first live near me and I actually started speaking to someone in Slimming World (not suggesting you do that if you don't have a weight problem!). She asked if I wanted to join a book club and the rest is history! Got a bunch of friends who love theatre/cinema/art/books and general get togethers. Three were teachers but we all get along together with enough general interests.

The other bunch down in Hampshire I met through mum's new neighbour. Mum is now dead but the neighbour asked if I wanted to join their group. Just a bunch of single people doing stuff together. Although most go to church they did not expect me to and they are "normal" not God bothery in the slightest!

OP i resonate with a lot of what you’ve said, so I know how tough it is.

Like you I’ve always found myself on the edge of friendships, always the butt of jokes and have often been dumped for no reason. My DH has so many friends, he has flocks of people who are so loyal to him and love him. I truly love this for him and he thrives on it (doesn’t have the easiest relationships with his siblings). DH found it odd when we first got together that I am a little homebody who is comfortable on my own/select group of people who often are transitional. I am fine knowing that the friends I have now, probably won’t stay my friends in a few years. I won’t know why, but I’m also comfortable now knowing I am (for some reason) not a person who attracts loyalty.

As I’ve gotten older I’ve realised that DH badgering me about this is actually more about his insecurities than mine. He would not be able to function without his vast friendship groups. Don’t let this impact your marriage, and please don’t think you’re punching by landing someone who is more sociable than you.

Regarding making friends, I have used friend apps, I volunteer, I force myself to do my hobbies outside (cooking class/baking classes). I’ve found there a lot of adult women that too find it difficult to make friends.

good luck op!!!

I think you need to reframe the way you look at these situations. Who have you met over the last ten years that you've really liked? Who have you been a friend to?

You say people won't like you if you're too loud or opinionated, what evidence do you have for this? The world isn't split into wonderful and awful people, with people falling into the latter category when they put a foot wrong. You also don't get into the wonderful category by never putting a foot wrong, you are most likely making yourself forgettable.

Have you seen Candy on Disney+? Try to see why people like Candy but not Betty - by your listings of good/bad traits Betty is more likeable, but in reality she doesn't make people smile or laugh.

The good thing about being forgettable so far is that you can pleasantly surprise people, but you won't do that until you really like yourself, can describe yourself in positive terms (not just what you're not) and have things to say. Work on this first, figure yourself out and try to have fun doing so.

Good luck - there's obviously a great person hiding in there, let her out.

What you’re describing is identical to my experience with people - it was something I never understood and was very painful for me. The thing is, I’m autistic, I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 31 and it’s definitely not something people would ever pick up unless I told them. I know if you Google autism you’re going to get - lack of empathy, lack of eye contact, specialised interests, but you must realise many of these stereotypes just don’t apply to everyone. If you have the sensation that everyone else got a handbook on how to make friends and you didn’t get this incredibly vital handbook and are missing something fundamental I think you may need to consider autism.

Most people have natural social skills, even if they are not as good at it as your husband. I think it is telling you found it hard to make friends in school, as that is the place most people find it the easiest to make friends (lots of time together, lots in common).

It seems you were either wired that way from birth (possibly due to ASD) or the trauma you experienced from your mother has caused you to be this way (or maybe her rejection was due to you being 'different' in a way she couldn't understand?)

You think you are doing what everyone else does in social situations, but they are sensing something "off". Added to that, your anxiety over social situations (not surprising given your experiences) will make you come across as false or awkward. It sounds like people feel uncomfortable with you.

You could try to get an ASD assessment? Or at least, read up about it and see if it rings bells for you. You could also read up about social skills, though they can be very subtle so hard to explain fully.

I have a sibling with social skills issues. They do have friends but sometimes these end abruptly and my sibling doesn't get why. I suspect they are somewhere on the autistic spectrum but have never sought a diagnosis.

Of my two daughters, one just had natural social skills and understanding of others' emotions from toddlerhood onwards, while the other has had to work it out and had few, of any, lasting friendships as a child - better now she's grown up.

My experiences are similar to yours. In my case I think it comes down to a troubled family background and being bullied/no friends at school, and being introverted and most likely on the autism spectrum as autism runs in our family. I have always found myself on the outside. I have high empathy but quite often it doesn't translate across and I seem indifferent. I get exhausted very easily around most people which doesn't help either.

I wonder if you're coming across in a way that people think you're not interested or looking down on them? I've been told that I seem snobby whereas nothing could be further from the truth!

I'm not a particularly sociable person though so it doesn't usually bother me although I do crave deep connections sometimes. Can you try meet up groups to find people with similar interests to yours?

I'm not in a relationship and live my life pretty much alone. I have my books, my pets, my interests. You have your family. No friends is better than bad friends.

I Emphasise with everything in your first post. I’ve just come to the realisation that it’s not meant to be. It’s tough sometimes because your husband sounds a lot like mine and has his male weekends away and friendship WhatsApp groups and I wish I had friends to share those things with but it is what it is. I don’t begrudge him at all, it’s down to the way I grew up, a very dysfunctional family and i never learned how to have relationships the way ‘normal’ people do.

To those who suggested I'm on the spectrum, no, I'm not, one of the things my mother did was to act like I was uncontrollable and wild as a young child. I rang police from a phone box on the way to school one morning after she was violent to me, of course, social services and police were then at the door. The issue was she never did leave marks, she was clever enough to hit but not hard enough to bruise. And I actually didn't mind the hitting, it was her constant nasty words that hurt more. She told them I was an attention seeker, disruptive all manner of utter rubbish so I was sent to a child psychologist at about 12. He found nothing wrong with me so we were sent to family therapy at a place now shut down due to improper behaviour by staff.

I don't think I do anything to come across off. I'm naturally just the person most likely to be used and then discarded.

I did used to have some interests, I loved to dance. I liked to read. I still love music. I'm not a big drinker because when I finally left home and got away from my parents I went wild, drinking, getting involved with boys, many of whom were abusive. But back then I thought I had friends but really it was more as I was 16 and had a room in a shared house for teens, and they'd crash at mine, drink my booze and never so much as chuck me a cigarette when I was skint.

I've tried so many times to assess where any friendship has gone wrong. I don't say nasty things, if I say I will do something I do and I put real effort in. But I still end up the person, standing in a pub, with no one invited turning up for my birthday.

Even my wedding, I was let off by how empty my side of the church would've been due to getting married during partial Covid restrictions elsewise DH had about 100 odd friends and even more family to invite. Me? I had two people. That was it, my friends from my home town.

I wish I could feel it was my fault but I don't. Maybe I'm just that disgusting no one wants me around as I tarnish a group?

I didn't even have teachers who liked me, usually a kid who gets bullied is liked by staff but not really, I was often overlooked and when I did well in my exams a few of them said they were surprised as I was so quiet in class. I'm easily forgotten.

DH is now getting annoyed about my refusal to go back to the pub they all hang around in. He said it's awkward for him as he has to say I'm ill or busy. But I've not been back since the day before the dinner they didn't turn up to. I got annoyed with him earlier as he was moaning again and said well maybe be honest that none of you turned up so she doesn't want to come here. He said that clearly he wasn't doing that as "why would you want me to? It's going to cause trouble". I told him I didn't care if it did and I'm sick of him only caring what they think.
We ended up having a huge row over it. He said if I want to sit indoors and be miserable and negative about everything, he isn't going to join me. I said to him maybe if he stuck up for me, he never has with his family and allows them to sideline me, he does it with friends too, I would have less to be negative about.

I think I'm just waiting for him to leave like everyone always does. I never match up to anyone's expectations.

If he leaves he will just be yet another person who couldn't stand me.

hi OP, have you tried any therapy? sounds like there's a lot there to uncover, and done by the right therapist you could make quite a bit of progress. I realise it's expensive, and you have to find the right person, but sounds like you need some professional help to sort out your childhood as well as your current low self esteem issues. Until you've done that you might not be able to move forwards socially very much.

Would you consider counselling? It’s hard to form safe and strong attachments to people when you have experienced rejection from a parent and this sounds like it effecting potential friendships / relationships x

O. P, this is so sad to read, so much to unpick here, and so much damage done to you as a child and a young teen. You have been let down badly by your parents and others so no wonder you have struggled.
lf your husband knows your difficult history then l don't think is being understanding or supportive. He is obviously an extrovert who revels in socialising whereas you are the opposite, and he should appreciate that as an introvert you prefer to lead a quieter life.You shouldn't have to change just to please him.
It's very poor behaviour on his part that he allows his friends and family to sideline you, but he obviously cares a lot about his image and what people think of him.He sounds rather shallow to be honest. I think you should carry on living your life doing the things you enjoy, you mention reading, dancing and music, all things you can still pursue at home if you wish, and you have your children to care for as well. I bet they think the world of you! Your husband can still see his friends solo if he wants and he doesn't need to say any more than you prefer not to spend your evenings in the pub.
You mention you've had counselling in the past and it might be beneficial to have more with someone who will listen objectively and help you find some answers and to show you that you are important, you do matter, and you have a right to be here.

Please don’t be disheartened OP. I think it’s really hard to make new friends as you get older. Life is so chaotic that people don’t always have/ make the time to socialise with new people as they have existing friendship groups.

You sound like a really lovely person. I agree with PP’s and don’t think your husband is doing much for your self confidence. I would be very angry if my DH still entertained people who had upset me like that too.

Sending big hugs OP x

I'm so sorry this has been your experience. It's so incredibly painful to even read. I relate to the feelings and some of the situations.

I think like others said its worth trying therapy, or seeing another therapist if you already have. Your self esteem is understandably low, and unfortunately your attitude towards yourself can become a self fulfilling prophecy, I.e you expect to be rejected so you are. That doesn’t mean it's your fault, its about vibes and subtle expectations of others. I've had years of therapy and now understand better how my feelings about myself influences my relationships. At the end of the how you feel about you is most important. Please consider working on your horrific childhood as this is at the root of how you feel about yourself. If you can find some peace and healing I suspect youe experience of friendships will improve too.

Can you talk about this with the two long-term friends you have from your home town? Could you tell them that you are finding it hard to make new friends nearby and ask if they have any advice as to anything you should change ? Like be more chatty, be less chatty, catch up with the latest books/movies for conversation topics? If they are true friends they will want to help you and will be kind and supportive with their advice.

Hi, I remember your previous post and felt for you then. But also want to say, the friends not turning up to the birthday says as much about your Dp, as he organised it. Moving on to today, I have realised not everyone needs to be a close friend, you can value aquaintences, and their social interaction, for what it is. If I was you I would look at volunteering- local library/ food bank etc something that lifts your self esteem and gives you some interactions whilst working towards a common goal. Slimming clubs are also pretty good places to meet other women, as people tend to go on their own and form friendships there. Once you see people as casual friends, it might take the pressure off. Most of all though, I think it would help you to find something you enjoy, that takes you out of the house.
many of us have experienced loneliness at some point, and it’s not always obvious. You have the added layers of child hood trauma, and quite possibly frame many of your life experiences around a core belief that you are less worthy and less lovable, due to this trauma. Some good quality help may help you recognise these unhelpful patterns and give you strategies to help you deal with them. It’s not easy, but the very fact that you are reaching out here is positive. You have an army of virtual friends on your side OP.

This has prompted some thoughts about how I am with friendships. Like you, OP, I don’t find friends easy to make and have experienced my share of rejection, ghosting and outright bullying over the years. But this is what I’ve found:

If I really like someone a lot, from the off, it means I need to take care. Not just because it means I may be unconsciously doing all the chasing. Introverts are often attracted to wildly popular extroverts who already have all the friends they could ever need, thank you very much, and can afford no more than a few superficial crumbs of attention to each one. If you’re remotely lonely, this won’t be enough. More to the point, these types tend to overshadow others, making themselves look like fascinating creatures and everyone else like slates to be wiped clean and/or replaced every so often. Is your DH this type? Do you look for ‘interesting’ people who do most of the talking and planning and going places? Because chances are they’re not interested in you as a person.

Another curious thing for me personally: I never found houseshares and so forth worked for me. It’s not that I’m unlikeable or difficult to get on with. I genuinely attract more than my share of unreasonable people. I have learned to stand up for myself and to deflect or escape such behaviour where I see it, but there is something most people have that I don’t - an intuition about others maybe, some kind of first-line defence against emotional predators. I maybe just don’t spot them as instinctively as others. I cope by sticking with those I know I can trust, and recognising the situations where I’m likely to be vulnerable.

Lastly, don’t discount anyone who does take an interest. For me the most valuable friends have often been the ones who at first sight seem like the dullest (because they aren’t grandstanding) or the oddest (because they aren’t trying to fit in) or you feel a bit unfamiliar around them because they’re allowing you more than a word in edgewise and you don’t quite know what to say.

Hope you don’t mind the length of this but it’s a complicated business.

I haven’t read all of this, so sorry if I’m repeating what others may have already said.

I think the first rule is, you MUST learn to love yourself first of all. Even laugh with yourself. Be happy with yourself.

Don’t try too hard, it scares people off.

Let people come to you. Be interesting, and don’t be worried about being yourself.

Don’t give a toss if they don’t like you. It only means they don’t understand you and are not worthy of you anyway.

Don’t put too much emphasis on friendship. When it’s right it is right. And if it’s not, it is not.

But it will come when it’s right.

Always remember it’s quality and definitely not quantity.

You sound a little depressed op, I am also like you . I find social occasions very exhausting and my husband understands this, but I do think your husband is making this situation worse, if his family didn't like me I know he wouldn't spend time with them and if any of his friends had made me uncomfortable he wouldn't be friends anymore with that person, you and the children should be his priority and he sounds like he's not standing with you.

I think you need to start being proactive about you. Get to like you. Get therapy to help you.

You sound defeated, flat, negative. Not nasty but possibly off-putting. And that's not surprising with your background. But can't change much about the past (therapy can help)

I think you need to find the positive you.
If you start to really like aspects of you, you'll do things you like, you'll not be dwelling thinking about/watching others. Do something you want to do. Exercise, jogging, park run, amateur dramatic group, walking, squash, badminton, pottery, painting, voluntary work etc.... start building up a shine in your mind and eyes - it attracts people (and you might meet people you like and have less time for those you aren't engaging with well).

Just a thought OP but have you ever considered you might have SEN/similar?xx

I only say this as I sympathise x

The husband sounds incredibly shallow along with the group of friends.

Hi OP
I recommend CBT, rather than counselling. Counselling didn’t really work for me but CBT did as it helped require my brain and my thought processes. It was life changing.
just a thought.

It's a mix with me, some times I disconnect myself as basically trust no one.
then sometimes I do partially discuss different topics , but overall I try to build friendship s, but mainly because I like to know their intrigues, their perspectives their secrets. But because I'm more closed book I think that does not help,

Totally this. You assume you are not going to be liked so you’re not liked! I also think you might emit some kind of confusing vibes that might emit desperation but also a blandness that turns people off