Friendships, why are they so hard?

[ReformedWaywardTeen]

I've never been very good at making friends.

I'm now late 40s and have about two friends, but they still live in my home town so I very rarely see them and we don't tend to text or stuff (busy lives, children etc).

As a result, my life consists of my DH (huge amount of friends, uber confident, very good looking for a guy in his late 50s and looks about 40), DD and DS.

I've tried since being a Mum to make friends for the good of my DCs. Both are now mid teens. DS is shy (has SEN) but has a lovely friendship group. DD is more like their Dad but recently fell out with their oldest friends because of a boy (not due to DD, who is gay, boy didn't like her and made her life miserable, typical teen girl silliness when boys are involved).

However, anytime I've thought I've made friends, eventually, just as I'm getting used to it, enjoying it, something happens and they either ghost me or get nasty.

It started at school where I was literally the school joke. I felt like a leper at school, boys would say stuff like "eugh ain't that your bird" so the boy they said it to would go "what that thing" and they'd all laugh. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 17.

My SILs bar one don't like me, don't include me in family stuff when the women go out. I have no contact with my own family, my mum made no secret of her disappointment in me compared to my younger siblings.

How I met DH and made him want to be with me I've no idea. He's such a huge force.

We moved from my home town when DD was born. Schools I thought meant friends. Nope. They were toxic, very posh and I'm not. I was quiet and unassuming, never pushy, it's not in me to be. But I was just ignored, never invited to mum meet ups.

We moved again due to necessity and I actually made a group of mum friends. Except the leader decided after a year she didn't like me and that was it. She was incredibly nasty about me. And I've honestly tried to work out why and can't. I literally am polite I don't make waves and I help out as much as I can when someone needs help. But it wasn't good enough

I joined DHs friendship group and they don't like me either. One was outright rude to me at one point but then they moved away. I posted on here though that DH pushed me to have a birthday dinner and no one turned up, messaged, phoned. Nothing. He has carried on speaking to them and seeing them which hurts actually. They humiliated me.
He said they all had excuses.

I think it's now effecting my marriage. He said he doesn't know why I don't want friends. That it's "weird" and that I'm constantly miserable.

But I feel so done with trying to be a good person and make people like me and inevitably they don't. I'm not someone who argues or foists my opinion on others. Some of the group are very political but I don't join in with that because I worry they will hate me quicker

I am baffled. Considering my own mum rejected me is it any wonder others do?

I don't want to lose DH but every time another group dismisses me I feel like he starts to think I'm not worth it either. Friends are everything to him.

Am I just that unlikeable?

Does anyone else have this issue? Why can't I make friends? Why when I do do they end up hating me? Is it weird that I would rather just not bother after so many negative rejections?

Presumably your DH knows about your past and the rejection you suffered?

Personally I dont this your DH is being very supportive or nice.

It sounds like you havent found ‘your’ people and from the sounds of things your DH is part of this.

dont change yourself to meet other’s expectations of you. This is your life.

You have a DH issue here. He doesn't have your back. Nagging you to go back to the pub, saying he has to lie. You are right- he should just tell them the truth. But he's protecting them while throwing you under a bus.

He really needs to stop pressuring you to change. You’re not going to turn into him, for God’s sake- you are fine just as you are.
I’m sorry, OP. That would be very difficult to feel at peace with.

Do you want friends because you feel you “should” or because you are lonely?

if you are a actually happy as you are then that is perhaps coming across?

I would do some volunteering locally and make peace for now that you are happy as you are

You need feedback... you don't seem to have had any feedback. As harsh or difficult as it seems... you need to ask people what they think of you...Its the only way to understand what is the issue.

I think you need to listen to your husband when he says.. 'miserable and negative'. Maybe these are vibes you're give off.

You have low self-esteem issues stemming from childhood and your toxic mum.

I think you should go to the pub, but also ask the people why they didn't turn up to your Bay celebrations. Also as then what they think of you. It's the only way to learn .... and improve your friendship skill making.

I think you should go to the pub, but also ask the people why they didn't turn up to your Bay celebrations. Also as then what they think of you. It's the only way to learn .... and improve your friendship skill making.

I disagree. This is handing your power away and OP is an abuse survivor. The main person whose opinion of you matters OP is your own. Work on healing yourself first, and take space from worrying about friends. When you are feeling better you'll either attract better people or care less. Tell your dh he needs to start backing you up. Not ditching his own friends, but acknowledging that you don't want to hang out with them just now.

I think because I walked away from my entire family at 16 and have never had anything to do with them since, I find it very simple to cut myself off when I feel upset or uncomfortable in a situation.
Hence why to DH, I should have just carried on going to the pub and seeing the people who didn't turn up. He believes I've made a huge deal out of a situation and before the thread was removed most people were very firm in telling me I was an idiot and childish.

Its why if he does carry on and I think he will leave, I will cut him off. I will just behave like he never existed. I've done it so many times.

I think it's a protection method.

Am I lonely? I don't know. I've never really experienced anything else, the times I've thought I was in a successful group of friends has been so fleeting I don't really know any different.

I'm not standoffish or boring or ignorant, I behave the same as anyone else but I just get ghosted or bullied. It's always been that way. I almost feel like because my mum rejected me in favour of my younger sibling- who she heaped love and praise on- people can tell and so swerve me after a time.

I always just feel that I'm unlucky. It's not just with friends, even with getting help when I'm unwell, I can't get doctors to listen or take me seriously.

I don't moan about my childhood to people, I don't try and be one of those sympathy hounds, I don't do anything but still people ditch me.

I've had therapy and counseling. It was pointless.

I think it's fair to say a lot of friendship groups are based on culty belief structures and they all fall in and out with each other at various times. The people I know that maintain friendships are the false ones who keep smiling through all the bull.

I also find it difficult to maintain lots and lots of friends, and I think the following contributes:

• I don't put on a poor mouth, I don't actively brag either, but I find false claims of economic distress annoying - so I don't claim to be in complete shock of the gas bill while packing for my second ski trip of the year. I think this is perceived as a lack of modesty at times.
• I don't engage in local gossip, or in detailed character assassinations of others. This might be perceived as judgement or aloofness.
• I don't engage in local residences committees or the school boards or school gate politics, again I think most of it is toxic.
• I don't suck up to local arsty people.

I do have a decent job and that keeps me occupied along with family and a small circle of friends. I think it's a lot harder for women to maintain friendships, because women are so judged in general. Everyone I know is in a similar position, limiting themselves to a small circle of genuine people that they can feel comfortable with.

If I wanted to make new friends, I ld go to Meetup (app) events, or do a course or do some volunteer work....... But right now, I think meeting randommers would be quite tedious. Currently I keep myself company by listening to lots of podcasts 😆😆 there are friends I could visit or reconnect with, but I just can't be arsed.

People are boring, we all are, we are also ALL living through culture wars and people are possibly more socially abrupt and less socially pleasing. I dunno.... Will have to consider it.

You mentioned your ds has special needs. Can l ask what type? You seem very definite that you haven't autism but do you know it presents much differently in women. Reading through all your replies my first thought all along was that you may have autism. I have a friend here . We met as our dhs are very good friends. In the beginning l struggled to understand her. She is an extremely talented lady but has social issues so it was uncomfortable when the 4 of us were together. As soon as l realised she has autism l just accepted that and everything was fine as l could make allowances for her. Years later she was diagnosed with Autism only when her granddaughter was.. Maybe you already have been assessed but if not do seriously look at it.

My friend is in a choir. She loves that as like you she loves music. Find one thing in your area you might enjoy. Ballroom dancing classes or a choir and go for yourself. Forget friends and do stuff for yourself. You have your own gifting so pursue that. Somewhere where there is something to do rather than sitting around.

This really is what I think. He sounds shallow, selfish and exhausting with no empathy.

Oh yes, another thing, I came across a NYT podcast about a book called "the body keeps the score" and it was really interesting.

We all think we need to be talking with friends, but what is really helpful for humans is to do something in unison with each other:
Sing together,
Row together,
Dance together,
March together,
Pray/chant/meditate together.

We need to stop analysing and instead just do something in unison together.

My heart broke reading this OP.

Your childhood trauma has absolutely everything to do with this situation. I don't think (and I know I don't know you at all) you do/say/act so unlikeable that you couldn't have/make friends. Over the years you have been misunderstood, your teachers and the 'adults' in your life have not dug deep enough to see why you behaved (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) the way you did. I think you've continued to be misunderstood, and not found people who are prepared to really get to know you, they are rare gems I'm afraid, so that's not any failing on your part.

When people I meet behave a certain way, I always wonder what might have happened to make them who they are. One of my work colleagues, when I first met her was very stand offish, didn't make me feel welcome at all (I was a newbie) and I took a bit of a dislike to her (I also think nobody likes me) but I learned about a year later that she had a very difficult childhood (SA) and it completely changed my attitude towards her, she didn't trust, defensive, and I totally understood that, it all became clear, she didn't not like me, I had to gain her trust.

Your DHs friends sound superficial, I'm not sure they're your tribe anyway. I'd say join things where 'nice' people attend, those who are interested in you, they do exist.

I am saying all this to you as I resonate with a lot of what you say, so believe me I am coming from one of those 'nice' people places.

You are NOT doing anything so awful, you are NOT unlikeable, you are just looking in the wrong places

I have a life limiting illness which has got worse since having a covid jab. As a result I have lost my friends and family. Cant go out and have given up my hobbies. Can’t wait to die. Won’t be an inconvenience then.

I find your experience very relatable OP. I also experienced family rejection, so it may be related. It bothered me for years, but about six months ago I joined the gym, signed up for some online learning, and focused on those things (outside of family life which is busy anyway!). I’m much happier and starting to rebuild my self esteem. I don’t try any more to make or maintain friendships, and I feel better without that in my life. I just do what I enjoy and love my family, and I’m realising I’m missing nothing. Don’t dwell on it if you can help it.

To me the loneliest situation is not being alone, it’s being in a group, yet feeling left out and lonely .

Another evening of this is what finally persuaded me I needed to do something. I like reading, so found a Book club and another social group. Early days, but I feel positive , I’ve met new people, and I like the routine of meeting every month.
I’d say think about what interests you, see what’s around. And maybe look at getting more support, counselling/ therapy. Sounds like You had a tough start in life

Get involved in activities, hobbies, interests etc - but with a view to keeping busy and enjoying yourself, rather than having an emphasis on making friends.

Your husband sounds quite the extrovert and you appear more introvert. It's ok that you don't like the same things and he needs to accept that a night down the pub with lots of people isn't necessarily you're thing. Could you and him go out to dinner with a just a couple of his mates as a compromise and opportunity for a better chance to communicate rather than a noisy pub.
I sounds like you need to be kinder to yourself and try to learn to love who you are and how you are. Louise Hay is worth Looking up for some positive affirmations you can repeat to yourself. Maybe be take a night class in something that interests you to learns new skill. Focus on accepting yourself as the wonderful, unique person you are. Be kind to yourself and become your own best friend.

@Breakingpoint1961 Superficial that's hit the nail on the head. They really do. I wondered how much genuine connection there is amongst individuals in this gang, because that's what it is, not a friendship group. The husband feels exhausting and unkind in some ways too. I really like your advice. @ReformedWaywardTeen I'd rather be friends with you than any of those shallow people.

I'm just interested @ReformedWaywardTeen how was your courtship with your husband ? Were there signs then? Were these mates around then?

I did say upthread that I love in quite a small area and there really aren't any clubs or hobby groups. There are a couple of baby groups and a toddler group but my DCs are teens. There is a women's group but it's religion specific so not for me and not very welcoming to those not of that religion anyway. We do have a church, I went there for a bit but there were about 10 people who went and they all seemed to know one another and were elderly so I didn't fit there either.

I did say previously I was assessed for neuro stuff because my mum lied about my behaviour to get out of her abuse when I reported it and nothing was found, DS has Asperger's but you'd barely know, his bigger issues is lung issues due to prematurity.

I know it's me saying it but I watch how I behave constantly, I laugh appropriately at jokes, I can take a joke too. Its why I never see it coming when I'm dropped.

DH is very different. I've never really understood why I ended up with him as he's gorgeous, funny, just nice and I was very much not the type he got together with before me, he had stunning women before me he still gets on with now. I'm just bleugh. My sister was really pretty and still is apparently. I've always been too tall, too broad shouldered, horrible nose, crap at clothes, wonky teeth that a brace didn't fix, glasses and now I'm fat too.

I would just rather not bother but DH thinks it's weird and why I never look happy. He said I need an outlet, that when the DCs leave home what will I do then? He said I literally have nothing to talk about. That in his view the group did apologise but my view is we all have phones, they couldn't have apologised before I was left standing waiting for them? It was really hard for me to agree to doing anything on my birthday, I had a migraine that day but DH said you know, people will be disappointed if you don't go. As it was I got dressed and then looked like a twat.
So it's made me adamant that that's it for me and I'm to the point of telling him to leave because it would just be easier.

Op I’m a bit similar to you with the difficult family background and though I’m now separated, my exP was (still is) mr life and soul of the party. I also struggled at school, was bullied and could not be “accepted” whatever I did.

But I’ve tried to make peace with that and accept that I’m an introvert and maybe find it hard to open up to people, but I have made friends over the years and have several good long term friendships- but none of them are people I “made friends with” or made an effort to befriend. They happened gradually through shared activities and interests or mutual friends, and because I’m busy and introverted I don’t see them very often - which means all the friends I still have are either similar to me, or tolerant and zero-drama and don’t mind that they might not hear from me for months.

I have also noticed that friends who I “made friends with” quickly or through conscious effort are the ones that didn’t last. Either I was attracting needy or dramatic people who latched onto that, or I was trying to build a connection where there wasn’t actually much in common.

I agree with pps that the best way is through activities you genuinely enjoy, especially anything creative, or involving teamwork or communication. Playing music, conservation volunteering, community garden, dance, sports, rambling group, even boring things like being on a resident’s committee can give you that shared aim and communication and that’s how you find people you click with. But it takes time, you can’t force it.

People who previously would have been diagnosed with Asperger's would now be diagnosed with autism and autism is a genetic condition. It is likely that if your son has it one of his parents does.

You obv5know yourself op, but I wouldn't assume that because you were assessed at 12 you can't have it. Back then (even now actually) many girls and women didn't tick the right boxes so didn't get diagnosed but are autistic. I too can understabd jokes, laugh with people, sometimes make conversation. Most of the time people wouldn't think there was any issue at all. But I know how hard I can find social situations. I did the camouflaging autistic traits test on embracing autism website and scored very high.

I do think your biggest problem is your husband not accepting you for who you are though.

I wonder if your H’s criticism and disapproval is making you very anxious and self-conscious and that isn’t helping. Do you respond and tell him he’s being hurtful, or disagree with his comments? He’s not the judge of everybody, even if he is sociable. I think you need to do things for you that are away from him and find your confidence. If there are no groups, could you start one? Could you find a teacher and learn a new skill, eg an instrument? It doesn’t matter if you’re not a natural, it just gives you a different focus and a sense of achievement when you progress.

@ReformedWaywardTeen DH is very different. I've never really understood why I ended up with him as he's gorgeous, funny, just nice and I was very much not the type he got together with before me, he had stunning women before me he still gets on with now. I'm just bleugh.

Stop it. He's not doing you a favour being with you. He's not nice either if he's nagging at you all the time. It's like he thinks he's the sun god and you have to bask in his reflected glory, or that's what I'm picking up and it's not healthy. Has he conditioned you over the years to think you're aiming high with him and should feel lucky? You come over as giving him adoration rather than being equals. He's encouraged it by the sound of it too.

Why did the "stunning" women leave him I wonder? Do you think you should be grateful he looked at you? Does he see you, a quieter person, and a foil to give him more presence?

I'm getting an uncomfortable vibe about the man. You're a valuable person in your own right. Not this man's acolyte.

From how you describe yourself I would also suggest you look into how autism presents in women and girls, you say you would hardly tell in your son but is that because he is so much like you?

As PP said girls are under diagnosed now never mind 30 years ago.

I think people who accept others 100% with joy, tend to be popular, accept their little quirks and love them anyway (as long as they are not completely awful). Anyway, I m not that person, I m cautious, for various reasons, and I think a lot of people are these days.

I listened to paddy s podcasts recently and what struck me, was how easily Paddy just talked to people. How they opened up to him. Obviously they weren't friends, but it's good to talk in general.