Friendships, why are they so hard?

[ReformedWaywardTeen]

I've never been very good at making friends.

I'm now late 40s and have about two friends, but they still live in my home town so I very rarely see them and we don't tend to text or stuff (busy lives, children etc).

As a result, my life consists of my DH (huge amount of friends, uber confident, very good looking for a guy in his late 50s and looks about 40), DD and DS.

I've tried since being a Mum to make friends for the good of my DCs. Both are now mid teens. DS is shy (has SEN) but has a lovely friendship group. DD is more like their Dad but recently fell out with their oldest friends because of a boy (not due to DD, who is gay, boy didn't like her and made her life miserable, typical teen girl silliness when boys are involved).

However, anytime I've thought I've made friends, eventually, just as I'm getting used to it, enjoying it, something happens and they either ghost me or get nasty.

It started at school where I was literally the school joke. I felt like a leper at school, boys would say stuff like "eugh ain't that your bird" so the boy they said it to would go "what that thing" and they'd all laugh. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 17.

My SILs bar one don't like me, don't include me in family stuff when the women go out. I have no contact with my own family, my mum made no secret of her disappointment in me compared to my younger siblings.

How I met DH and made him want to be with me I've no idea. He's such a huge force.

We moved from my home town when DD was born. Schools I thought meant friends. Nope. They were toxic, very posh and I'm not. I was quiet and unassuming, never pushy, it's not in me to be. But I was just ignored, never invited to mum meet ups.

We moved again due to necessity and I actually made a group of mum friends. Except the leader decided after a year she didn't like me and that was it. She was incredibly nasty about me. And I've honestly tried to work out why and can't. I literally am polite I don't make waves and I help out as much as I can when someone needs help. But it wasn't good enough

I joined DHs friendship group and they don't like me either. One was outright rude to me at one point but then they moved away. I posted on here though that DH pushed me to have a birthday dinner and no one turned up, messaged, phoned. Nothing. He has carried on speaking to them and seeing them which hurts actually. They humiliated me.
He said they all had excuses.

I think it's now effecting my marriage. He said he doesn't know why I don't want friends. That it's "weird" and that I'm constantly miserable.

But I feel so done with trying to be a good person and make people like me and inevitably they don't. I'm not someone who argues or foists my opinion on others. Some of the group are very political but I don't join in with that because I worry they will hate me quicker

I am baffled. Considering my own mum rejected me is it any wonder others do?

I don't want to lose DH but every time another group dismisses me I feel like he starts to think I'm not worth it either. Friends are everything to him.

Am I just that unlikeable?

Does anyone else have this issue? Why can't I make friends? Why when I do do they end up hating me? Is it weird that I would rather just not bother after so many negative rejections?

I feel your pain. I’m in my 40s and used to make friends easily, now I just can’t make friends at all.
We have moved onto a brand new housing development, so we are all new around here, it’s already got clique and hardly anyone talks to me. I also recently started a new job, nobody really talks to me there.
I just don’t get it either. Sometimes wonder if I give out some horrible aura 😏
We can be friends OP

OP, I've just rejoined MN after months away because I had to reply to your post.

It seems you have not yet learned what most people learn by their twenties about how friendship works and what it is. Took me until my late forties so I have felt your pain and confusion and also know how to overcome it.

The truth is this: no one wants to be friends with someone who 'wants friends'. The neediness and the lack of evaluation in that desperation is completely off-putting. The warning signs of someone being desperate for friends - any friends, not choosy - are: people super helpful, available, and the deadly one: polite. Friendship is not about wearing a neutral social mask. It is about being brave enough to be your true self and not caring what moist people think because by being your real self, you attract like minded souls.

Here are the steps to getting a great social life. If you do them all I guarantee you will feel better within weeks, have a better life within a year and have great friends within a couple of years.

1.) Be your own best friend. I know how that sounds but if you don;t truly, deeply like you and feel confident being you, no one else can as they don;t know who they are encountering. Do lots of work on self-compassion and self love (endless resources free on line. Make a project of it. Learn to trust what you like to the point where it doesn't matter at all what others think, because it's none of their business. Trust your own taste and decisions on clothes style, house decor, music, pastimes and hobbies, political and religious outlook, level of education.
Make sure your new best-friendship with yourself is active and shows in how you take care of your body, what you wear, how you eat etc,

2.) Stop caring what others think of you. This is the most liberating, joyful act you can accomplishm,, after step 1. Practise often by saying mentally: 'what they think of me is none of my business' or and the world keeps turning' as in (I donlt think they like me) and the world keeps turning' They weren't very nice just then 'and the world keeps turning'. Meaning (to me, anyway) So What?? Who cares what they think? Their opinion of you is not more valid than your opinion of you. You are not defined by the opinion of others. So long as you like yourself, what they think is immaterial.

Something magical happens when you truly absorb this stage. People start to like you!

3.) Stop being nice and polite. First time I read that advice I thought, eh? Why? Who wants to befriend rude people. But it doesn't mean: be rude. It means be direct and honest. The first few times you might feel wobbly and get some raised brows or people might try to put you back into your people-pleasing box but keep practising. When you meet new people practise not being civil and helpful. Maybe tell a daft story about yourself or gracefully air a different opinion than theirs, making it clear (privately in your own mind) that whether they like you or not as a result doesn;t matter at all to you. You are not tugging on their skirts like a little child wanting to be liked.

4. This one is lovely and it comes from Aristotle of all people - DS was studying a book called Nicomachean Ethics in 6th form and I picked it up and glanced at the section on friendship. Aristotle says, recognise that there are lots of different types and depths of friendships and all are equally valuable. He places high importance on very casual friendship. I had, in the past, always hoped casual friendship would deepen but now I don't. I love it for what it is. I will never be besties with the women at my bootcamp or yoga class but we do sometimes go for a coffee, give each other garden cuttings, home made jam etc. It's at that level, no deeper, and that's lovely.
   Start to feel the same about your husband's social circle. Don't try to get close to them. Stop thinking and caring about whether they like you. Just turn up for a drink or BBQ or whatever. Have a bit of a chat, in your new self-positive mode. Practise your new social experiments on them - speaking your mind, or letting overt dislike of you wash over you because it doesn't matter what they think. Maybe tell a funny story or don't immediately help with washing up if you are normally first to adopt the skivvy role.

5. Cultivate different levels of 'friendship' for different purposes. Get out and do a few things you love - sports, arts and crafts, music, volunteer for charity or political or church group - whatever you genuinely enjoy, regardless of friendships. Get good at it. Be chatty and friendly but not needy when you meet people. Focus on what you are doing and enjoying it. Consider what you want to get from different types of friendship: work friendships deepen your network and mutual respect. They don't need to do more. Casual friendship knit you into a community - they are people who smile and say hi as you pass them in the street. Family friendships are functional - you seek one or two points of shared interest and focus on those. True, deep friendship comes over time. In my experience it always comes from having a deep shared passionate interest that no one else wants to bore on about with you as much as the other interest-nerd. All my closest friends are shared-passion friends.

I know this is an essay and I'm sorry but I really wanted to let you know it can change, even this late in life. Start by liking yourself, accepting yourself and growing the confidence not to need or seek approval from anyone else at all: you like and love you and that's all you need. Then get out into the world,. being yourself, not some neutral polite version of yourself, and get stuck into to stuff you love doing. Friendship will follow.

I agree with people above, you’re fictitious much on ‘having friends’. This means you’re probably not being yourself when you meet people you want to be friends with. Focus on having fun with your family, by yourself, and getting out a bit, integrating yourself into the school or locality and it’ll happen naturally x

And it’s not just you op, everyone seems to be thinking so much about having/getting friends and then they read a lot into people not jumping into friendships- different people have different responsibilities and may not always get to do the typical friendship stuff, but it doesn’t mean they don’t care/like you/think you’re nice

I started my YouTube Channel and met a few good friends through it. I can pm my YouTube channel name to anyone who would like to have a look at it T

Introverts usually have fewer friends and it's ok as well. They appreciate the quality of friendship, not necessarily quantity.

Extroverts like your DH usually have more friends.

I was born in Eastern Europe and I find the British mentality is usually more reserved than Eastern European one which is more trusting and more open in general.

'My home is my castle' is the proverb that says about it.

To resolve this with his friends, how I would deal with this - I would communicate it to them and tell them the truth that I was hurt

1. they didn't come when I was expecting them for my birthday at the pub

2. they didn't warm me they were not going to come

*2) they didn't warn/haven't warned me they were not going to come

Then all the caring people would apologize and there is a good chance that this friendship could rise to a better, higher, more respectful level with them and next time some of them would want to make sure they came to cheer you.

Also maybe say next year on your birthday they feel guilty & arrange it for you properly then.

I wouldn't expect my DH to deal with it on my behalf, I would deal with it myself communicating THE TRUTH and how it made me feel and why I didn't want to come to the pub to meet them anymore because I felt hurt, offended & neglected.

I agree with those who said to love and accept yourself foremost. Once you can do that you won't care as much whether you have friends or not and that's when you will attract friends who like you.

Unfortunately loving and accepting yourself is far from easy when you've had a traumatic past. You really need to do some inner child work to heal that damaged part of you. I don't think the counselling you had before went anywhere near deep enough. It takes a lot of work and vulnerability.

Make read some books on healing the inner child. There's loads out there. Do some meditations on reparenting yourself. And do consider seeking another therapist, maybe someone from the psychodynamic school of thought although it varies a lot depending on who you see and personality is most important.

I’m in a similar position OP, it’s really hard isn’t it and I often feel extremely lonely. Similar to a previous poster, my social life has diminished since we all started working from home and the only friends I have left live in others parts of the country so rarely see them. I’ve joined some hobby groups and clubs and have found that is good for general chit chat amongst acquaintances and whilst I haven’t met anyone I’d class as a friend yet, it’s nice to chat to new people.

It seems he does. For a variety of reasons:

He is safe with you. He thinks you will always be there so he doesn't have to try. Look at how he called you "ridiculous" - very hurtful.

He's too afraid of pissing his friends off. It all sounds fragile. He sounds like a people pleaser. So he has chucked you under the bus instead of being honest with them.

I actually think he is a very weak individual and you are glorifying him to the detriment of yourself.

I socialise with many many people, but don't actually want to make good friends with most of them. I am a 'handful of good friends' person and understanding and accepting this has made me happy.

"I know it's me saying it but I watch how I behave constantly, I laugh appropriately at jokes"

Masking/watching behaviours etc. I do think it's worth getting reassessed op

People who watch their behaviour can (maybe) come a cross as engaging in orchestrated fun or conversations. Maybe, it's hard to relax around people who are "on" and not relaxed themselves.

Most relaxed people get it wrong sometimes and then just laugh it off, without noticing to any great extent. I think women watch their behaviour more than men anyway, they are held to higher standards.

Its hard op. We friends with another couple I left it up to them to throw open some dates.. that was xmas.. I just thought friendships should not be this hard.. I just do stuff alone now its easier lol. I cant blame covid just people are flaky

My best tips that have served me well.. be real, be a bit self depreciating in a jokey way, have a sense of humour, friendly, positive, if they share a moan with you, you share one back, don't be needy. It's a balance, no-one likes people who just talk about themselves but then they don't like people who sit and not along just agreeing and being polite.

These threads are usually filled with people pleasers who wonder why they have no friends because they're friendly, polite, good listeners etc but it's not enough. When I make a friend I want someone real who will have a laugh about something dirty and have opinions on things etc.

I hope that this helps you. My childhood was virtually identical to yours and I see so much of myself in you. Can you maybe look up C-PTSD and Avoidant Personality Disorder? I am not saying that you have the latter, I don’t have it myself. A lot of the avoidant personality descriptions crossover with C-PTSD and when you look at the WHY behind all of this, it makes sense. Friendships are the hardest relationships for us to give ourselves to. We actually expect more of female friends than we do of our male partners in many ways, because they’re “only men” and we hold others to our own black and white code of personal conduct.Nobody can do that. It’s unrealistic. Meanwhile, your DH is covertly bullying you by not having your back and is now using your own sense of betrayal (by them and by him) to continue to bash you. He’s being cruel because he doesn’t want to be the bad guy or grow a pair and admit to his friends that they were arseholes.

A couple of things from what you have said may be causing you issues. Your childhood and your relationship with your mother so when rejection happens now it takes you back to that place.
Yoy sound like you have really low self esteem. It has interested me how highly you speak of your husband and wonder why he is with you. Does he compliment you or make you feel good about yourself? I would consider therapy to work on yourself and you may find friendships happen once you feel more secure in yourself.
Do you work or have hobbies etc for you? That may be a good place to start.

OP - an assessment in the 80’s isn’t sufficient. Your son having Asperger’s without a parent having Asperger’s is not really likely.

What your mother did to you was wrong, she treated you horribly and it wasn’t your fault. You having Asperger’s doesn’t make your mother right or justified in her treatment of you. I don’t think her abuse and your Asperger’s have any overlap. I think you had a terrible experience with your mother and I think you happen to have Asperger’s - they aren’t linked. She didn’t mistreat you because you were doing anything wrong. She was wrong.

Having Asperger’s doesn’t mean you’re the one getting it wrong. What you described is identical to my life, people have always turned on me, I also went wild with drink as a teenager to cope. The experience I had, with people turning on me, is not the experience every autistic person has - when there is outright hostility, people actively seem to loathe you, they get up, walk away, give you dirty looks etc. It’s agony. Those people not showing for your birthday - that was pretty hostile and if I were you I wouldn’t want anything to do with them after that treatment. The idea you should ask them why is not one I’d give any credibility, it’s not your job to beg for an answer for their abhorrent behaviour.

I too, have never done anything wrong regarding people, I make sure never to talk about anything which could upset people, I have high empathy and get more upset than the average person over mistreatment of people or animals, I try to laugh at the right moments and say the right things. In my 20’s I moved to different countries because I convinced myself this problem must be due to living in a small place - don’t fall for that excuse, it’s nothing to do with where you live - I met so many people, put myself out there and no matter where people were from, whatever their background, no matter what I did, the situation ended the same way, just like you.

Both my parents have Asperger’s - they only realised when I got diagnosed as an adult. Non of us look autistic and neither of them had the shunning experiences the same way I did. Neurodivergence is as diverse as being neurotypical. We are all different.

I spent most of my life in turmoil over this issue of people turning on me - it was agony, I just wanted to know why, what was it. I couldn’t tell anyone about it except my mum - people would just tell you, you’re too sensitive, you’re imagining it, you need to put yourself out there, it’s all in your head. People cannot even begin to imagine what it’s like carrying this around with you - it has never and will never happen to them and so it’s something they can’t fathom. It’s a lonely experience. I couldn’t hold down a job because this happens to me in the workplace as well as socially.

I know you’re pretty set against this - but you did use the word masking at one point so I’m wondering if you’ve looked up female autism. Asperger’s specifically is what I identify with - I don’t think it’s helpful to merge low functioning autism with Asperger’s. They aren’t the same condition and it’s unhelpful to both groups to suggest otherwise. No one would know to look at me I have Asperger’s. I’m sure you’re the same. Look some things up and remember no two experiences are identical. The core diagnostic criteria are what we have in common but we are people ultimately and we’re all so much more than just our Asperger’s.

I hope you’re ok - you sound like a great person and just remember people’s treatment of you is more about the kind of person they are than you being at fault.

I think this is really good advice. I've been in a similar position as you with wondering why I can't make friends easily. I think in my case it's because I live in an area where people tend to be quite settled and I have moved around and just don't have much in common with people. I'm also a bit socially awkward.

I think perhaps you are putting too much pressure on yourself to make friends. Who cares what those snotty Mum’s think anyway. Some people just don't have loads of friends and it can be harder to make friends as we get older.

I did some volunteer work and it was a good way of being sociable for a couple of hours a day. I was invited to meals out and the Christmas do too.

I also made friends through work but I wasn't actively seeking friends. It was just a case of chatting to people I had things in common with.

A random suggestion, but download the C25K app & start running. Runners are a friendly bunch. You could also start going to parkrun on a Saturday. You will meet lots of people there who you will have something (running) in common with. You can walk it, even take your child in the pushchair. You can even volunteer at Parkrun too & you'll soon start to see some regular faces whereby the simple 'good morning' soon alters to a brief chat, and then often the chance of a friendship group.
Whilst running may not be your thing initially, you'll be surprised how quick you get hooked - and if not, walk at Parkrun instead, lots of people do.

I am absolutely not trying to diagnose you, but if you are concerned about the neurodiversity thing, current thinking is that at least 56% of us are on the Autism Spectrum. This makes it a more inclusive than exclusive group. Obviously that means it’s a HUGE spectrum.

@Fraaahnces maybe that just means that every person is unique and so called "normal" people are the strange ones!

I do think there's a huge rush to try to label and neatly put in a box / overdiagnose what are just different and unique personalities, to put them in an "autism" box when really they are likely just different, like everyone is in some way. I'm not convinced it's helpful for everyone to be thought of in this way or to even over-pathologise it. It would be more helpful if people were more accepting of the fact that not everyone behaves or thinks in the same way. I do realise for some people a diagnosis is helpful, however.