Is any woman impossible to abuse?

No one is immune from abuse.

Even if you stay single, you could have an abusive boss, an abusive neighbour or sibling.

Abuse comes in many forms.

I thought I would be immune to abuse as I had a healthy upbringing, didn't suffer fools and earn a good income. I married a lovely man, and in doing so I acquired some deeply abusive in-laws.

We don't speak to them anymore but I had some incredibly hard years and it taught me a lot.

Abuse isn't a choice.

No one is "impossible" to abuse, man or woman, but there are many who do have good boundaries and know the bar they won't let anyone cross.

I am one of those. But I have also been incredibly fortunate in life, I have had choices and options. As a result I have an education, 2 careers, financial independence, I am also fit and healthy, which means I don't need anyone to care for me or support me physically. And I'm very confident, with a high self-esteem.

The closest I got to what could have developed into an abusive relationship was with a British guy. He was the ideal boyfriend for 3 months and then started changing. He became moody, huffy, seemed to resent my happiness. One day he exploded and called me a fucking cunt. I took my bags and left 2 days later, which is the time it took me to find another rental, as he refused to leave the one we were living in and I was paying in full, because he had been "looking for a job" (one often red flags, that job didn't materialise). He cried, and begged and swore he would "change", but he had crossed a line. He threatened suicide. I sent an ambulance and the police to him and told him that, next time he had those thoughts, to keep them to himself because I didn't want to know. Surprise surprise, as far as I know he's still alive. His games simply wouldn't work in someone with good boundaries.

No one is impossible to abuse, even if someone has a zero tolerance policy, you have to actually be abused one to set that policy in motion.

I'm loving the idea that because posters haven't been in an abusive relationship, that they couldn't be.

I agree that having firm boundaries, being financially self-sufficient and not needing a relationship all help, as does getting lucky and marrying a good-egg who didn't change after you have kids and give up work to look after kids who you can't afford nursery for. That's not actually the same as being impossible to abuse. That's called luck and not having met sophisticated abusers!

And I'm only talking about in romantic relationships.

Also interesting to know is that many, many women who are being abused don't know it! So some posters on here who think they couldn't be abused/have found a good'un may actually be in an abusive relationship and not (yet) realise!

I think people realise what red flags are and that's great. But nowhere near enough understand the microscopic subtleties that a lot of abuse involves - or understand that they even exist.

I do agree that anything that reduces an imbalance of power in a relationship is a protective factor. And I'm bringing my daughter up with that in mind. But it doesn't eradicate the possibility. Only by there being no abusers is that done.

Why don't you tell us women about your abuse-dodging hacks? I'd love to know where we've been going wrong.

Never say never I suppose, but...

I saw my parents abusive relationship and if had a huge impact on me. I always got told my standards were ‘too high’ but I just didn’t put up with anything that could even possibly be a red flag. I don’t trust people easily and I’m not the most forgiving person if you cross me. I was also very happy to not be in a relationship and not easily impressed by anyone.

This 100%

Rape is different. Anyone can be raped, it’s like being hit by a car. You have to consent to a relationship so it’s not random and it is preventable!

These games only work on people willing to tolerate them. Most abusers are not criminal masterminds, they are just dicks.

The Shark cage metaphor is perfectly accurate. You can build your shark cage and be fine or assume you are unlucky and just keep being revictimised over and over and over.

I completely agree. This thread is unhelpful to women who find themselves being abused THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN!!

It's never the abused's fault.

You sound great!

I have high self esteem and think I would be difficult to abuse! I have a low tolerance of bullshit and I also think I'm quite emotionally perceptive and an intelligent woman who recognises when someone is behaving in a shitty way - and the reasons behind why they do it.

My relationship with my dh has become worse in some ways over the years as I just dont put up with any shit any more - I call him out on it and explain why it's bothering me or il ask him to explain why he's behaving that way. I think he feels this has emasculated him or something but I don't really care. I love him but if I started to feel very unhappy I would just end it - I don't need him, I'd be fine on my own.

You can be abusive to me once, but I keep in mind my power to walk away, and I use it.
I think some people are getting mixed up between who is responsible for abuse ( it's the abuser, not the victim), and who is responsible for the well-being of the victim (it's the victim)

Of course it would be better if abuse stopped happening, but suggesting that it's best to walk away from something doesn't suggest that the thing is your fault. Suggesting that women walk away from abusive men doesn't blame women for abuse.

I like the way JustforLaffs has explained it:

"I have high self esteem and think I would be difficult to abuse! I have a low tolerance of bullshit and I also think I'm quite emotionally perceptive and an intelligent woman who recognises when someone is behaving in a shitty way - and the reasons behind why they do it."

Finances play a part and where in the world you live. Other than that no... I genuinely believe it can happen to any woman, regardless of boundaries, self esteem, education etc. Because it's usually a slow burn and not completely obvious. Having said that abusers are more likely to pick someone a bit vulnerable but on the other hand, some sick individuals like a challenge so wouldn't be out of a strong and together woman!

Yes, some women are much less likely to be in abusive relationships because they get out at the first sign of abuse. Sometimes those signs do not materialise until years into a relationship, but some women are still able to get out as soon as the first line is crossed.

I think it helps to be physically healthy, financially independent and have strong boundaries that you are willing and able to enforce. Some women are much more insistant about boundaries and more willing to leave a relationship and be single.

Everyone is different. If there are abusers who are clever enough to tailor their abuse to individual traits, it makes sense that some people have traits that make them less susceptible. An abusive relationship is just that, a relationship. And some women are able to drop even important relationships with relative ease. It's an emotional distance, or an emotional independence.

None of this makes an abusive relationship the fault of the abuse victim.

I disagree with @BatshitCrazyWoman completely. I don't see this thread as unhelpful.

If you've never been in an abusive relationship you will never understand. It isn't as easy as saying I'll never let anyone hit me or I'll walk at the first sign.

I never imagined I'd be someone who was abused, I had always said I would walk away. I was a strong, independent woman, he didn't start abusing me straight away. Abuse is subtle and abusers don't just turn round and whack you in your first argument. There is more to it.

I feel some in this thread are implying its my fault for not spotting that he was an abuser and not leaving after the first time he hit me because they don't understand how abuse works.

There’s a great book by Evan Stark about coercive control. In it there is a chapter - and it’s a while since I have read it - which talks about the historical and current systematic or structural, if you like, inequalities which make women vulnerable to abuse. So, for example, until 1871 (i think) married women were not allowed to own their own property, women were not allowed to get higher education and join the professions until later, women’s dress, actions, behaviour were controlled by society (or they were seen as ‘fallen’ women, not respectable). Women were paid less than men until the Equal Pay Act of 1976. Rape was not illegal in marriage until 1991. I could go in.
The point is that society, the law, politics, the economy saw women as both lesser than men and the property of men. Society controlled women.
His argument is, broadly speaking, that as the societal controls of women have been removed, male control of women has moved into intimate relationships. He talks about the fact that on average women are paid less than their male partners, a disparity which increases when they have children, and that women do more housework/have less leisure time and fewer opportunities to participate in civil society than men.
If I am recalling the argument clearly, there are two points from this - one, that this inequality makes women vulnerable in intimate partner relationships, and that until there is equality within the domestic sphere, there will not be equality outside of it.
All of which leads to a much broader set of questions than whether any women can be immune to abuse or have strategies which they believe have kept them safe from abuse. You will always find exceptions to the rule. But a population level, the question is much more about what can be done to keep all women safer from abuse. And that is about equality and expectations of men and women at a societal level.
And that is before we get to the levels of acceptable online misogyny which were not apparent when Evan Stark was writing and which many young men are growing up with.

I have been abused, assaulted and hit once but as a child or as single incidents by virtual strangers. Relationship wise I have had many and they have all been wonderful men. Even short encounters have been lovely. I get the ick as it is now called for tiny tiny things. Low self esteem, verbally rude, couldn’t be bothered not looking tired or bored, drank too much, laughed cruelly, idiot friends, no friends, too clingy, slightest bit jealous… Anyone can be abused but looking for a calm, friendly supporter makes it more likely you won’t get trapped. Being happy single and not prepared to tolerate anything that makes you less than happy helps and it’s not blaming women who get trapped to share this. No woman should ever feel like it’s their fault, of course they were unprepared for what was ahead and then broken by it but just as those abusers share characteristics so do the good men and women of this world. Knowing this is empowering and makes trust possible again. Those people who love and care and would make good choices even when no one is looking, who deal with pressure and conflict by talking and analysing are findable.

In terms of a narcissistic, EA partner I'd say once you've seen the light and learned about it it's possible to be narc-aware and getbout of such relationships before they go too far

I say this with personal experience

Sadly many don't learn to set boundaries and repeat the dynamic

So impossible, no

It feels like a backhanded way of blaming women for the behaviour of men.

Yep.

Abusive men often pick out women with vulnerabilities like a difficult childhood, single mother etc.

But put any woman on a desert island with an abusive man and I think he'd have a shot at it. The key is whether you're able to get away. I'm sure having family with resources, earning power etc helps as well.

Its a fair question to ask, if asked in good faith and OP willing to genuinely listen to answers and lived experience

There's enough stifling of debate at the moment without censorship of questions on MN too

I’m always surprised when reading posts on here how many contain a reference to a current or past abusive relationship. With one exception, I don’t know anyone amongst my family and friends who has been in an abusive relationship. There are loads of people who have never experienced it.

Yet you moved in with him within 3 months.

The problem is that it’s not an individual issue, it’s a societal and structural one. It’s also about upbringing and family dynamics in terms of boundaries and esteem. It’s not something inherent to the individual.
The advice I would give my daughter is to always make sure that you have the resources (whether that is financial or in terms of having a place to go) to leave. Because everyone is vulnerable to abuse in an intimate partner relationship. We live in a society which expects women to partner up, which celebrates romantic love and marriage, where women often are at financial disadvantages for having children, but then also asks ‘so why did you not leave’ when there are red flags or the start of abusive tendencies. Or worse, why did you not foresee this?