Husband using “massage” parlours

[2018mama]

I have been with my husband for 12 years, married for 6 years.

We have a 4 year old and history of miscarriages. Latest miscarriage was traumatic and due to that and other things my mental health hasn’t been in the best place. That’s had a huge effect on our sex life, majorly. I am going through counselling to deal with this at the moment but today when I was working for hubby a confirmation of appointment text came through (connected to the MacBook) about a massage with a “happy ending”. He’d told me he was “going to his last job” so I text him with minutes to spare “enjoy your last job!!!”. he didn’t go, I assume because of this! He denied he was even going to go and said “the thought of it was better”. I’ve checked the rest of his phone and there’s at least 2 other occasions arranging or intending to arrange an appointment.

I suppose my question is, am I wrong for being angry when I’ve “deprived” him of it?

@GBoucher

Because no, I don't think any man or woman should be forced to live without sex for the rest of their lives. A lot of people on this thread seem to think it is no big deal, but I don't see it that way.

This is so disingenuous.

The options aren't binary (1. Stay in a sexless relationship for the rest of your life / 2. Get wanked off in massage parlours) as there's a magical other option... work on your relationship then if you're still unhappy, be an adult and end it instead of cheating.

I don't know many men who would settle for zero sex for years on end.

Doesn't sound like he has been for "years on end".

In any case, his options were to suggest an open relationship or end the relationship.

Or have a fucking wank for a while.

Op abd he even discussed this subject explicitly, specifically and made an agreement about it.
Not that it even needs discussing in a monogamous relationship.

I personally suspect the "lack of sex" excuse is a smoke screen anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if he's been a punter to some extent of other well before now.

He has at least one scumbag punters mate.
Birds of a feather flock together.

Even if he hasn't done similar before now (have my doubts) ... That mate (and whoever else) had normalised to some extent using prostitutes for him.

Why is everyone telling the OP her husband is a prick and she should leave him but no one thinks she should actually sit down and talk things through with him??

Because many of us think that people who pay for sexual contact are pricks.

Because they cannot know whether the person they're paying is trafficked, abused, coerced etc but they are willing to run the risk for their own sexual pleasure.

HTH.

Why is everyone telling the OP her husband is a prick and she should leave him but no one thinks she should actually sit down and talk things through with him??

Because I don't think anyone should stay with a man or woman who uses sex workers behind their back (or books to use sex workers behind their back 😏when theyre going through a period of poor MH due to trauma and trying to help themselves.

Anyone - bloke or woman. I'd think they're a scumbag and they should get rid.

Such behaviour is also rarely isolated

Op needs an std screen just in case.

And that doesn't mean she couldn't have had STDs from him in the past that have been dealt with by her immune system and are no longer detectable.

I don't believe a man who's been caught booking a prostitute in a massage parlour 3 (?) times has never done anything.

(That you've found out about).

I don't think a handjob from a sex worker is as bad as sex with a colleague, for example. Perhaps you think they are all the same. i most definitely do not.

I would leave my partner either way but I would think less of him as a person if he cheated by paying for sexual contact than if he cheated by shagging someone from work.

One shows a lack of respect for me, the other shows a lack of respect for me and women in general as it would mean he's willing to run the risk of contributing to the pain of a woman who may be trafficked, coerced, abused etc.

Maybe you've never thought of it that way?

Thanks for the update, OP. I realise this must be very hard for you. The hypocrisy (criticising others while doing the same thing himself), bare-faced lying when directly confronted, and seeing it fit to do such a thing when you've been open with him and made it clear you're trying to remedy the situation and get your relationship properly back on track would make the betrayal that much worse for me. And the fact that he can lie so easily would worry me. It suggests massages and handjobs are not the only things he's been engaged in. I think you're in a really tough position and no one can tell you what to do but if it were me, I'd find it hard to come back from this. The lying and showing no remorse is the worst. I mean, he's trying to gaslight you instead of grovelling for forgiveness. That's really awful. I hope you find the strength to do what you need to do...

GBoucher

Do you know the difference between the words needs and wants?

A man's (or woman's for that matter) sex drive is a want.
It is NOT a need, in any way.

@GBoucher but she hasn’t ignored his pleas, in her first post she says she recognises that it is a problem for them both and is already going to counselling about the issue. She is working on her issues and he is using them as an excuse to behave appallingly. Apologies if this has already been addressed since my last post, the app has a mind of its own today. 🙄

If the husband has repeatedly told her how hard it is for him, how unloved it makes him feel, etc., and the OP has told him she doesn't give a shit, that's different from the husband just going off and doing something like this for the hell of it

UNLOVED?!!! Is that really what you meant to say here? Can you tell me, if I pop down my local homeless shelter and find a vulnerable man, will I feel loved if i bung him £20 to finger me for 15 minutes?

Its nothing to do with love FFS.

The bottom line is that if he felt this way and truly believed he his sexual wants were more important than his marriage he should have told his wife that - and left the relationship if she didn't agree with him meeting a sex worker BEFORE he made plans to go.

There is no valid excuse to for what he has done.

The OP is in no way to blame for what he has done.

Hi all,
We've just read through this thread and would advise everyone to do the same before responding. We have had several reports about this thread, have made several deletions, and are glad to see that it's back on track and supporting the OP now.

No, I don't think that way. Cheating with someone he sees in daily life like a colleague is more likely to involve emotions (on one side or both) than paying for a service from a sex worker, so I would be more upset with the former. Having an emotional and/or intellectual connection in addition to the sex would make it way worse for me. We don't have to agree. Why do you think only your feelings and opinions are valid?

"In sickness and in health." Those were the vows you both took. He's not very good at sticking to them, is he? You've only been married 6 years. What's he going to be like when you're menopausal, or old and grey? He's a fucking arsehole, this is absolutely NOT your fault. But if you let it go and stay with him, he WILL do it again.

"Once a cheater, always a cheater."

Agree 100%. What are the chances that you catch him the first and only time he’s ever done this? Every woman who’s ever caught her husband texting an escort, or viewing indecent images of children, or whatever, has heard the same thing “I’ve never done this before. It’s the first time. I don’t know what I was thinking” etc.

This is why I don’t bother with relationships. I swear, it just isn’t worth it. All the happiest people I know are single.

@GBoucher

No, I don't think that way. Cheating with someone he sees in daily life like a colleague is more likely to involve emotions (on one side or both) than paying for a service from a sex worker, so I would be more upset with the former. Having an emotional and/or intellectual connection in addition to the sex would make it way worse for me. We don't have to agree. Why do you think only your feelings and opinions are valid?

Eh? I didn't say we had to agree and I didn't say only my feelings and opinions are valid 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm perfectly aware that cheating with someone in daily life will likely involve emotions.

Cheating by paying a woman for sex, though, is indicative of a man's total lack of respect for women and his willingness to contribute to a woman being trafficked, coerced and abused.

I'm just more upset by the idea of a woman being trafficked, coerced and abused than I am by the idea of me being cheated on with someone my partner knows and him having feelings for her, I guess.

Each to their own, genuinely.

A man would definitely feel unloved if his wife refused to have sex with him. It would make him question his self worth, his desirability, etc. I've seen it happen. It's actually the same with women too. Have you ever heard a man or a woman say, my spouse won't have sex with me, I miss having orgasms. No, they say they feel like shit, they lose their confidence, they wonder what's so wrong with them that their spouse won't touch them. If a man repeatedly initiates sex with his wife and gets rejected, he doesn't get upset because he's not getting orgasms. He gets upset because he feels unloved. What's the point of going to a prostitute then, you may ask? It's not like she's going to give him love. It's a question I've asked before too. And the answer I've been given is that given the choice, a man would rather have an affair with someone he's not paying so he can feel desired again and all these things, but a lot of men think going to a prostitute is less of a betrayal than paying someone. Because paying for a service is impersonal and doesn't really require attraction or a mental connection. I'm sure some men also use paid services because they can't find anyone who wants to have an affair with them.

He knows why she's has no/low sex drive.

He knows she's trying to change things.

You are hilariously naive about why men who use prostitutes, use them.

From the horse's mouth, see it in UK punting.

"Don't want to fuck one woman for the rest of my life"

"I'm bored shagging the same person"

"I can have sex with women who I could never get in real life, hotter, younger, that's the whole point"

"I want to do stuff I wouldn't ask my wife to do/wouldn't want to do with my wife"

"I want to try out a black/Asian/Brazilian/thick/trans woman"

"Life is too short for sex with only one woman".

From the horse's mouth, hear it from prostitutes themselves.

"They show me photos of their beautiful girlfriends and wives, like they want to prove they can get women without paying, they dont say they never have sex, they say they are bored, the sparks gone.....they say it's their last time, always their last time .... They always turn up again".

Most men who use prostitutes have partners and most still have sex lives with those partners.

Educate yourself. Your advice is based on misinformation, on projecting women's values and feelings onto men, on naive assumptions about many men's attitudes and values around monogamy and relationships.

Clueless.

Ops h is well aware ... could not be more so of her struggled. He's aware of the very real, valid reasons for her struggles. He's aware she's trying her best to resolve them.

He's had an explicit conversation and agreement with op a out what to do if either are tempted to cheat.

Stop with the BS.

Op's h is well aware ... could not be more so of her struggles.

I actually believe this predates op's MH issues.

He's got at least one prostitute user friend.

Has he done many holidays, stag do's, lads weekends, sports weekends, nights out with said punter friend?

As I've said before ... It goes against the law of probability that you get caught the first and only time you do something. And op knows he's done it at least 2 other times recently (?) And he's deleting everything like crazy (and no doubt anything she hasn't found).

Buying sex can be very addictive for men. It's a sweetie shop, novel, varied, exciting, no strings, base experience that starts in anticipation and visual stimulation ... and ends in an orgasm; of course it's addictive.

but a lot of men think going to a prostitute is less of a betrayal than paying someone. Because paying for a service is impersonal and doesn't really require attraction or a mental connection

You do realise you have spectacularly contradicted yourself.

You said they do it to feel loved and wanted. But a prostitute can't make them feel loved and wanted. They can't get love or desire etc from a prostitute. Even the most delusional punter realises that. They literally wouldn't siebd time with them or touch them if they weren't paying.

So you've said they want to feel loved and desired .... But they don't want to betray their wives with an affair so they have sex with prostitutes..... But theyre not getting feeling desired or wanted from a prostitute, so there'd be no point in doing it (when they've dismissed having an affair cause they're so "moral".

What you fail to appreciate - and the list is long - is that it's not all that easy to find an affair partner, and you risk discovery/exposure if you even try. The person themselves or other ppl might relay to your partner that you're coming onto them.

An affair partner has to be groomed, schmoozed and then requires maintenance. They usually have to be convinced your marriage is dead and you'll be leaving sooner or later. Then when you don't leave, they get v angry and go a little bit crazy and are likely to tell your wife. They often require romantic gestures that are time consuming and expensive; like nights away, weekends away, fliers, jewellery, lots of contact that your wife might suspect.
You can only see them on both your terms, it has to suit them too - not only at your convenience.

They are hard to acquire and maintain, they usually require a lot of attention, they are a constant risk re telling your wife, they are often increasingly volatile as they grow impatient and hurt and feel like they're losing the pick me dance they thought they'd won from the start when you involved yourself with them. They could fall pregnant, even if you use contraception and then you're in a real clusterfuck situation.

Compare all that to no strings sex on your terms, at your convenience, at the click of a button; a short message or email or text or two.

That's the main reason cheaters who use gravitate towards using sex workers, do so.

(Oh and they get the variety & novelty of women many of them want, rather than all that effort & risk & hassle for sex with one other woman).