How do you end a marriage if DH refuses to accept it’s over?

[Saltysea2001]

It’s been years if shit. Separate rooms. Im deeply unhappy. I told DH today that I want to separate - he refuses to accept it and refuses to move out. What are my options? I do not want to reconcile. We have three children. I’m desperate.

“The youngest children may have only just turned 3 so may not have taken up a nursery place yet. You only get 30 hours free childcare in term time and that is only if both parents are working for at least 16 hours per week. I believe there is also an upper limit so if one parent is earning more than 100k then they aren't eligible.

All 3 and 4 year olds are eligible for 15 hours free so it would mean the op funding those extra hours for a while if she wants to find a job which takes her over the 16 hrs.”

Exactly this. And she also has a school aged child to collect. It’s unlikely that there wouldn’t be some childcare costs on top (after school club, extra hours at the twins’ childcare - even if she can find somewhere with two spaces) and the H would have to fund these whilst she was looking.

people are unnecessarily blunt on here when others are having real problems.

However, you have been offered some good advice amongst the passive aggressive rubbish.

You do need to see a solicitor first, before either of you move out. They can protect the rights of whomever moves out.

You are entitled to compensation for what you have given up by staying at home, but don’t expect the Earth. You have missed a few years of a long career and, with hard work, can easily get back on track.

Divorce does mean you will both end up financially worse off, there is no way around that. You have to run two households from now on and there is also solicitors’ costs and stamp duty. However, It is not insurmountable and, for quality of life,, well worth it.

Good luck!

That’s absolutely not what I meant by sharper and I apologise it’s come a cross that way. I meant sharper as it more pointed, less frilly, “nasty”. I wasn’t implying anyone was stupid at all, apologies it was probably the wrong terminology in the context of it.

“One parent taking on 100% of childcare and one parent taking on 100% of the financial responsibility is a terrible plan for a shitty marriage.”

I hate to break it to you but many many many couples do this (like myself) and have very happy and successful marriages. Just because it wouldn’t work for you and your marriage, doesn’t mean that it wouldn’t be wonderful for other families!

My husband is a high earner and I have mostly been a SAHM for the last ten years. Guess what - we are blissfully happy. My husband pays into a private pension for me, plus into an ISA savings account in my name. The house and all assets are in both our names. I previously worked (and used to earn more than my husband once upon a time) but we both made the joint decision for me to be a SAHM until they are all at High School.

My husband, myself and the children are all happy with our lives. My husband values me as a wife, mother and home-maker.

I said for a shitty marriage which doesn't appear to be your case. It can work in a good equal respectful happy marriage - which OP doesn't have.

When you are in a shitty marriage that is likely to end, it is a terrible idea.

I don't quite get your point since I said for a shitty marriage and then you went on to describe your non shitty marriage.

Bloody hell, some shocking responses on this thread. Luckily there are some more helpful ones.

OP, do you have your own (individual) bank account and not just a joint one? Do you have any savings in your own name? Are you claiming child benefit? If not claiming child benefit you should claim asap and get into paid into your own (individual) bank account. You can also claim UC as a single person even though you are still living together as long as you are not living together as a couple (ie sleeping in separate bedrooms, etc).

Not sure when your twins turned 3 but I assume that if you are not already using the 15h childcare, you will be? If so you can use some of that time to get your ducks in a row and to think about getting some work in the longer term.

Meanwhile it is completely reasonable for you to stay in the house with the children; the children need a home and you are their primary carer. Of course if he refuses to leave it's going to be difficult (you can only make him leave if he is abusive and you can get an occupation order). You might find that it becomes impossible to live together amicably while divorcing, in which case you'll have to move out if he still refuses, but it makes sense to stay if you can.

As everyone has pointed out, you need legal advice - do you have access to money to fund it? The next step will be family mediation, which you will need to try before going to court. So if your husband is refusing to engage in discussion you could suggest mediation.

Some links for you

www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/survival-guide-divorce-or-dissolution-civil-partnership

www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/survival-guide-sorting-out-your-finances-when-you-get-divorced

www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/survival-guide-using-family-mediation-after-break

Well, firstly, @musingsinmidlife, your phrasing “terrible plan for a shitty marriage” made it seem like the split of duties was what led to the shitty marriage. Perhaps that isn’t what you meant.

Secondly, and more pertinently, no one plans to be in a shitty marriage! The set up may have worked well for several years, until the twins were toddlers or whatever, but it’s now a bad marriage.

Op starts her post with "it has been years of shit" so it has been bad for awhile and I was saying that women not working and men not being involved at home is a terrible plan when you have marriage that has been shitty for years.
That is what OP told us - in the first line of her post!

Personally I think both parents should be involved with all the responsibilities - but in a good and happy marriage it can work if both are more into traditional gender roles and dad is the provider and protector and mom does all the domestic and child related tasks and both are happy with this.

But when you start your post saying it has been a shitty marriage for years - then both of them have put themselves in a bad position.

Exactly. I'm a family lawyer and some of the comments on here are completely incorrect.

Apologies if I misunderstood what you wrote @musingsinmidlife I read your message to imply if one person does 100% of the childcare and one person has 100% of the financial responsibility = a shitty marriage. Sorry if that’s not what you meant. SAHMs get such a bashing on this site.

OP, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but as you have been unhappy for years, I wonder about the twins - did he improve for a while or was it an unplanned pregnancy?
I'm not blaming you, just trying to understand why you have not felt able to end the relationship despite being unhappy for so long

If you move out and rent, even for the short term you'll be entitled to universal credit while you get on your feet.
You'll also get universal credit to contribute towards childcare to make getting a job more achievable.

You'll then get cms payments from him, based on his salary, and if he refuses you can apply through cms for these.

You'll not sacrifice your share of the home by moving out but I would recommend a solicitor to ensure you get a fair split if you don't think he'll play fair.

Yes, sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as someone else interpreted it the same way you did as well. Op started her post saying it had been years of shit.

It's quite obvious I am talking about pre-school DC @Itsallok. I worked once the DC were at school too. The op's DC are only just at the age where they have become entitled to nursery hours and the twin element makes it harder.

And sorry, but not all women can cope with looking after three young DC and do all the management of home, and night wakings, and hold down a job. It's impressive that you can do that but as you know the realities of it are very hard and not everyone is the same and I don't think all the other pps on this thread should be piling shame on women who can't.

I know this is a bit of a tangent as far as this thread is concerned, but there's such a double standard over this too. How many men do we all know who are solely responsible for their three DC and work while their wives are serving at sea or whatever? Probably a handful. In those circumstances it's usually the grandmothers who step in, not generally the men. (I know this from personal experience .)

And yet it's the women who must be solely responsible for DC and work ft and are lazy if they can't manage it, and with the exception of a few specific situations, this view has been normalised by society precisely BC so many men abandon care of their DC to their partners, their mothers or other poorly paid women in society. Why aren't the men doing equal number of hours childcare? That's the question we should all be asking, instead of berating women who are doing it.

Well we can only answer that question for ourselves -

I wanted to spend more time with my children than I did working, so I went back to work PT so I was able to do that. My husband and I have a less common dynamic where I would think he does more than average - he’s self employed working his own hours so the days I am working he does 100% all childcare and housework from 6am Tuesday morning until they’re in bed on Thursday evening.
But I haven’t gone back to work full time because I enjoy that extra time with them and actually it’s a really nice balance of a very high stress, mentally challenging career and enjoying a calm home life.

Exh refused to accept our relationship was over, had been leading separate lives for ages, I met someone else, that focused his mind very quickly.

See a solicitor and start the divorce ball rolling

Have the menz escaped from the incel forums?

Hi everyone. Just a reminder that Mumsnet exists to make parents lives easier and, while it's fine to disagree, it's best to keep things civil – so can we have a bit of peace, love and understanding on this thread please? MNHQ

I've been divorced twice, it doesn't come easy.
My first husband was determined I'd get nothing despite the fact I worked full time and the house which we bought after we got married was in joint names.
Well he got properly thrashed by the judge who awarded me 60% of the equity and zero custody as my DS insisted he didn't want to see him any more. He was a nasty cruel man.
This enabled me to walk away and buy myself a smaller home for me and DS. ExH moved abroad to avoid paying CMA which made money very tight but we managed.
2nd husband I was married to for 20 years, went off with another woman. Tried to get half my house, failed as I owned it before I met him. Judge decided he could have 10k and that was it. Signed consent order so he can't come back and get more money.
2 very different divorces. Generally if you are married you can claim half the house whether you move out or not as long as your H didn't own it before you were married.
I have a good few single friends with three kids who have managed just fine on UC and you may be able to get disability payments which will help.
But it's important not to do anything before you have received proper advice.

If you have savings under the threshold apply for universal credits, you can do this even living in the same house . If you can afford to see a solicitor. You can start divorce proceedings even if he refuses to accept it . The house will be sorted and you will both be entitled to a % as part of the divorce, regardless of if you move out or not .

Good luck

The unvarnished truth is that no child if children could live without food, clothing, physical shelter, access to health care. These necessities all require currency and payment.

It is pretty unrealistic and dismissive to under value the significance of these essential items to a child's very existence. No amount of cleaning ,cooking, event transportation, life management will provide mortgage payment, utility payments, clothing payments, food payments, etc. Not one merchant will accept life administration, a home made mesl, or event trsnsportation for his children as a substitute for actual currency payments .

A parent with an adequate job can pay someone to cook, clean, transport and mind their children. A parent whose contributions are only in the form of home services and life administration is unfortunately most often unable when called upon to provide those other very essential needs. Thus , there is an inherent imbalance. In the sustainable value of what the 2 parties bring to the table, as evidenced by the fact that upon separation the service providing partner is often still reliant or dependent upon the currency providing partner to be able to provide for their mutual children.

“A parent with an adequate job can pay someone to cook, clean, transport and mind their children.”

And, in this set up, the person doing this is OP. It would take a pretty well paid job for one person to do this for twins alongside after school care etc, were the DH to be a single parent, say.

But, in the spirit of peace and love rather than academic argument, how does your post help the Op?

@SheilaFentiman
My initial response was that the OP's situation was best served by first finding legal representation and then a job.

The post to which are reply was simply my reaction to the rather pointless comments about the value of the contribution that both the OP and her partner have made.

The OP has long since stopped replying or posting so my assumption was that this had devolved into a discussion about the relative value of contributions and arrangments with in a household.

Actually all of the discussion about contributions and resources splits are fairly pointless in instances where moderate to limited incomes are in play. Half of very little is "even less." and the life admin partner cannot get any more than the limited financial load will bear.

And sorry, but not all women can cope with looking after three young DC and do all the management of home, and night wakings, and hold down a job. It's impressive that you can do that but as you know the realities of it are very hard and not everyone is the same and I don't think all the other pps on this thread should be piling shame on women who can't.

@Zeroplucks202 this is exactly what the OP will need to do if she gets divorced.