I think I'm controlling

[Needtounderstand]

DH and I are have just had our second relationship counselling session. There are multiple issues but something he has said is that he finds some of my behaviour controlling. I'd genuinely never thought that about myself before but something has clicked today.

I need to work on this and have done a referral to find a therapist for myself via the NHS locally. In the meantime are there any resources such as books or podcasts that anyone can recommend? Understandably there's lots of support for victims but less for perpetrators.

Thank you.

Everyone tries to control their environment and the people they deal with unless:

They don't care about the outcome
They do not fear the consequences

If you both care about something, however small, but you have different ideas on how to go about it and what the outcome should be, there will be a clash.

In some cases we put too much energy into things that don't seem to matter much to others.

But we do so because we want to be more secure and lessen anxiety.

Is it possible that your husband feels completely stifled by the reality of having a young family but isn't able/willing to admit to that (because it makes him look bad) so he's putting it all on you instead?
He wants to be spontaneous, he doesn't like planning, he wants to choose what he eats at the time with no thought or planning. But he also doesn't seem to want to do any work towards making that possible. If he feels controlled by your meal planning, then he needs to take on responsibility for shopping and cooking. If he won't do that, he's not being controlled he's acting like a spoiled brat. It actually sounds a bit like he's the one with control problems. He shouts aggressively at the kids when they don't listen. That's presumably because he feels triggered by them not doing exactly what he wants, immediately. He wants to be in charge, but he's unwilling to put in the time or effort that that actually requires. So he's blaming you.

I'm a bit shocked that your therapist suggested that you understand he might feel controlled by you not liking his beard. He still has the beard! Did she suggest to him that he needs to understand how you feel? That if kissing him feels uncomfortable then that's just something he needs to accept?

That's not what I said.

I don't think you are being honest. For some reason you are presenting two opposite narratives at the same time.

That might be because you've been gaslit and you're deep into your cognitive disssonance.

Or it might be because you are the gaslighter, and your form of control is to always present yourself as the victim. By saying "I just want to understand" you are offering a form of plausible deniability. "I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, I'm just trying to understand." "Here's a list of all the shitty controlling things you've done, but obviously I know I'm the controlling one, I just need to understand how." If that's what you're doing to your husband, then that is a total headfuck.

Both people in a relationship have that responsibility, though.
Where is your husband?
I think this whole level of navel-gazing about how your cleaning routine and meal-planning is controlling is a way of avoiding the fact that he has basically abandoned you with two children. Some men do this. They are able to do it precisely because they know that the mother of their children is an organised, capable person who will be able to hold the fort and make sure the DC are okay.
And then the mother of their children ties herself in knots trying to work out what on earth she did wrong.
Sorry if that is harsh, I wish you good luck for sorting this out one way or the other, and I hope you don’t find out there is another woman in the wings because that is the usual explanation for men walking out, regardless of how it is dressed up.

You don’t seem bothered at all about him leaving for the weekend op has he done this before?

I've only read OPs posts...

He sounds a bit of a dick to me tbh. I think he is checked out of the marriage and is looking for a way to blame you. Who brings up what happened to a few burgers 6 years later!

I would suggest he us not cut out for family life. Not everyone is. But the examples he gives- meal planning around the children etc Make him sound selfish if anything. It's interesting that he can see why you mealplan with that rigidity ... but it's still your fault he can't have what he wants for tea... aww didums.

Maybe something to try is handing over the shopping and meal planning to him for a month. See how he gets on. I'm not saying this to be awkward to him. I'm currently laid up with a screwed up back - with painkillers that are at times fogging my head. I can do some stuff, but it varies massively day to day, morning to evening - and my brain cannot cope with the usual complexities consistently. My DH and oldest DC have had to take on the things I cannot do. They manage to keep everyone fed. But the house is a tip, the number of shopping trips have increased and I'm scared to look at the budget. We've had issues getting people to the right places. Usually I can drive and participate in this... but sometimes I can't. There are many other examples. But the point is that they have begun to see what I do in terms of planning and organising and it's necessity. Maybe your DH needs a dose of this? Or maybe he just doesn't want to be part of family life anymore and resents you for bringing the children into your collective lives which naturally has changed it.

I suspect you will split and sadly his input with the children will fade to the very minimum. I wish you luck OP. But please dont take all this as your fault and responsibility. What part in this marriage failure is he accepting responsibility for?

Food for thought. Thank you, I need to think about that.

He is looking for excuses.
He is managing to bring back ‘issues’ from 6!! years ago. Things he had never mentioned before but were such a huge issue that he still hasnt forgotten them. Does he not have other examples to give that are … a bit closer in time?

Tbh I’d be careful. I think he is using the counselling as a way to lay all the blame at your feet. ‘Look I tried to save my marriage but there as sooo many issues!’ Followed with ‘Actually @Needtounderstand agreed that she is controlling. She even got an appointment with an nhs counsellor to deal with her controlling issues’ because he has somehow managed to convinced you that all the stuff he doesn’t like are your fault. Even when you actually gave demonstrated the WHY you are things in a certain way (the meal planning) he is still saying it’s nit ok because its ‘contrived’.

I know you love him. I know you want to make things better. But I’d look fir a (private) counsellor asap to be sure you see actually holding onto your boundaries - which you have done very well btw.
I think you also need to start preparing yourself for a divorce. He has checked out, is blaming you for everything incl decisions he freely took and is looking for excuses to explain his resentment and him checking out. That’s nit the behaviour if someone who truly wants to make things better.

This thread is really interesting because we have had a lot of similar issues in our relationship and I think if I wrote out my examples I could also get 90% of posters to agree that I’m not the problem. But I love DH and I want him to be happy in our relationship so I’ve had to really try and hear him and not get defensive.

My DH is also a shouter and would also describe me as overly rigid about the house and kids. He sometimes says it feels like my house and he just lives here, which must be horrible. I think some of this is just my personality, some of it is about my (low level) anxiety about my kids and some of it is about DH. I sometimes overly control things to try and manage DH, picking up more responsibility than I should to avoid him getting stressed and shouty. A bit like your gnocchi example.

Despite all of this we generally get on well so both want to stay married. DH has committed to working on his temper (and agreed to pay attention if I point out he’s going too hard on them) and I am making a concerted effort to be more flexible about little stuff. That means letting him eat something he fancies even if it’s not optimal for food planning, letting him clean the bathroom as and when he chooses, letting him cook the meat if that’s what he wants etc. Generally treating him like an equal adult, rather than another child or an employee.

He went away for the weekend 2 weeks ago to clear his mind and from time to time he goes to pre arranged events linked with a genre of music I'm not into.

I've never had a problem with this before, I trust (?) him. Its not unreasonably frequent, at most 5 or 6 times a year for 1 or 2 nights and the cover story has always been reasonable and checked out.

I am bothered by him not being here, but he's said he needs to clear his head, so I want to give him the space to do that. Whatever the reason he is emotionally tying himself up in knots at the moment. He's been on Facebook and WhatsApp, so I know he must be in one piece.

Maybe it's a combination of both things. You know he's been controlling and shitty, but you can't bring yourself to face that, because that would be incredibly painful, and also mean that you'd have to admit the relationship can't go on. It's easier to take the blame onto yourself and say that even though you're the victim, it's your fault. That way, you still feel you have control, and if you can just make the right changes, or get to the right understanding, you can fix everything.

You're not being honest with yourself. Are you really okay with the way your husband treats you? Put aside the worries about your behaviour for a moment, and ask yourself, are you okay with your husband's behaviour and his treatment of you? If your best friend or adult daughter was in your shoes, what would you advise her?

Just be honest with yourself.

@DorotheaHomeAlone tbf we’ve had the ‘you are controlling with your menu’ from DH too.
That’s when I was doing 99% of the cooking.
It was quickly solved by doing what @Needtounderstand did. Asking him to be involved in creating the menu and letting him struggle to find ideas that would work around the dcs.
He said it once, and quickly agreed that putting a menu together is hard work. Strangely enough he didn’t want the responsibility and the hard work involved in finding ideas every single week….
I am still asking him ‘for ideas’ and usually get about ONE each week too…. with a struggle….

Thats the difference. He was able to acknowledge the whys instead of still criticising like tte OP DH is doing.

And how many weekends away a year do you have? Interesting that he went away to ‘clear his head’ 2 weeks ago almost like he’s going to see someone whose kids are away every other weekend. 🤔

@beastlyslumber your analysis is probably quite close to the truth tbh.

Id just want to highlight that wanting to be in control (by eg taking responsibility and hoping that ding X and Y will help) is a pretty normal reaction. We all dislike uncertainty. And being able to ‘do something’ is making most people feel less helpless.

Thats totally different from being controlling though.

Being controlling is about being in total control of a situation. Making it exactly what one wants it to be by expecting other people to change what they do FOR YOU. That’s not changing your own behaviour.

I have a very controlling friend and she is EXACTLY like you, or the way you come across, always playing the victim. Her friends and family are always dropping out of her life and she always has a story as to why, always not her fault. The overly long, over-explanatory, almost robotic posts really give it away. And planning everything to the nth degree. Do you get irritated by your friends quite often?

i have been friends with this friend of mine for ten years now but I am starting to cut ties because it is exhausting.

Mate, his life changed when he became a dad.

He doesn't like it. He wants to be freeeee.

And he's blaming you cos it's easier than him acknowledging responsibility for his life choices.

Stop meal planning. Don't do it together. Just stop. Say he's right, you've controlled it for too long. He can do the food shop and the cooking each eve. Say you'll cook whatever he tells you is for supper, he just has to say the word. But you won't interfere 😉

He's gone. These aren't the actions of a man who wants to work on his marriage. These are the actions of a man who wants to end his marriage but doesn't want to be 'the baddie'. He can now say he tried everything. He tried counselling and even the counsellor said you are controlling and he couldn't bear it any longer. He had to leave, you gave him no choice. Boo hoo. And who can blame him? Suggesting he freeze some sausages six years ago, how very dare you!

Get a grip. You're being so wet in your response and he's getting everything he wants.

Two weeks from now, disappear on thr Friday night without warning as you need some space. Do it again two weeks after that. See how he responds. What's good for the goose and all that....

JEESUS he is tedious op!
If you love someone and they do most of the cooking and cleaning for you, surely you'd be appreciative not nitpicking about these things.

Do you know for sure where he is this weekend?

This is not a fundamental marriage issue. There's something else going on here.

I fortunate never to have fallen out with friends or family. My closest friends are people I knew from school, so have known me 25+ years. If anything, it's the opposite, I struggle to make new friends as I don't have the self confidence that people actually like me and aren't just being polite.

@Vohgue your comment is interesting because it could also apply to the DH too.

You're not controlling at all. He is the problem. Not you

Look I could be totally wrong but this is also something my friend would say. Never had a problem with friends or family. Then I'd say, what about your dad's partner (won't speak to her as she's been trying to interfere witb their relationship) or our mutual friend from baby group who wont have a thing to do with her anymore (thinks she's a controlling nutcase). The hardest thing is she does not understand. She works her arse off to be the sweetest thing otherwise, would do anything for you, is team manager, class rep, best friend.... but at the end of the day, she is just so so so controlling.

It's just the way your posts come across - exactly as my friend writes.

With the sausage scenario, you say he said others noticed it that day.
Was that because of how it was said?
Did you chastise him like a child or maybe snap at him. Did you tell him, no no we're not cooking them now we're freezing them instead?
Or did you say I thought we'd freeze them they probably won't get eaten otherwise?
I know its a bit ridiculous but sometimes it really is about how something is said.

I still think you're not controlling, but life is too rigid for him.
It will probably only be like this whilst the kids are small but if you think he's genuinely wanting to work on the marriage, could you relax about some of this?

I also think the therapist is there to help you both work on the marriage. She's not going to take sides, she's going to try and get you both to see each others side. Is she doing this with your DH too?

Op do you have very low self esteem?

I can't understand why you're so desperate to keep allowing your dh to walk all over you.

He is aggressive with your children. He does very little housework. Does minimal childcare. Blames you for every problem

Fucks off for the weekend when ever he feels like it. Is probably (definitely) shagging someone else.

Yet here you are desperately focusing on how you can blame yours for freezing sausages 6 years ago?

Chuck him out ffs