I think I'm controlling

[Needtounderstand]

DH and I are have just had our second relationship counselling session. There are multiple issues but something he has said is that he finds some of my behaviour controlling. I'd genuinely never thought that about myself before but something has clicked today.

I need to work on this and have done a referral to find a therapist for myself via the NHS locally. In the meantime are there any resources such as books or podcasts that anyone can recommend? Understandably there's lots of support for victims but less for perpetrators.

Thank you.

DH has said he never wanted our second child and my behaviour in this was controlling. He said this once when our second child was very small and has reiterated this in the last 3 weeks.

Our first child was unplanned. When they were 18months- 2 years old I spoke to DH and said that I felt our family was incomplete and I would like a second child. Before we married he had said he wanted 3, I’d said I was happy to have one and then we’d talk again. When I said to DH I’d like a second child he replied that he wasn’t convinced it was a good idea, that I had been a nightmare when I was pregnant with our eldest and that financially we’d be better off with just one. But he wasn’t sure if he’d feel the same or change his mind in 6 months’ time.

As time progressed I struggled with the lack of clarity from DH. I was 37 and felt that I needed to know a definite answer so that if he was certain I could deal with my emotions and move on. We were sleeping together and having sex at the time, I wasn’t on any form of contraception. DH isn’t a big fan of condoms and at the time chose not to talk to the GP about a vasectomy (this has changed in the last 3 weeks). I felt that having unprotected sex with your wife when you knew she wanted a second baby and you didn’t was irresponsible and I didn’t want sex as much.

DH has said he feels he was clear that he didn’t want a second child. I feel that by saying he might change his mind in the future he was unclear.

After 3-4 months I spoke to him and asked him to make a final decision. I explained that I would accept not having a second child, although I wanted one, but that I needed a clear decision from him because I was struggling with the uncertainty. I spent a great deal of time considering if I should say anything and how to say it and I thought I had made it clear that I would accept his decision either way.

DH gave me his response a few days later, which was that we should have a second child. 3 weeks later I was pregnant.

I can see his perspective, I did have an outcome I wanted and he says he didn’t feel he could give me an answer other than what I wanted to hear. But equally, I don’t feel he was clear in saying he didn’t want a second child and I feel I was clear in saying I would abide by his decision.

Honestly, that therapist is shit. Suggesting that you not wanting to kiss someone who has a beard is controlling is laughable.
Your DH has the right to have a beard.
You have the right to not fancy people who have a beard.
what this comes down to is your DH is getting the hump because he thinks he should get sex no matter what and your opinion and bodily autonomy doesn’t count and the therapist is agreeing. That isn’t healthy from either of them and I’d suggest no further sessions with either of them. Get some individual therapy instead to help you see clearly first and establish your own boundaries.

I wouldn’t say either of those are controlling - if the beard thing was substituted for not washing then most people would tell the other person to wash, you didn’t tell him to wash, just preferred it when you did.

He’a just as responsible for contraception as you if he didn’t want another child then he should have taken measures to stop that.

Yeah, I am having a bad feeling about your therapist. Something isn't right here.

It sounds like what you are saying is that you spend a lot of time coming up with thoughtful careful ways to ask your DH questions and in return he calls you controlling

Do you feel like you have to be this level of careful every time you ask him questions/for decisions?

He seems to be making you responsible for his decision making by saying he doesn't feel like he can give you an answer you don't want. There is a complete lack of ownership from him as to his own decision making process.

It sounds more like he wants you to second guess his preferred decision and present that as a solution so he doesn't have to put any thought or effort into articulating it.

@ConfusedNT that is a perspective which could be taken from what I have said, although I think it's not a fair reflection of the reality of man I married who does love his children very much.

@Starseeed thank you

@TheOtherBoleynGirls I don't believe he is abusive and not to me. We are both string willed and stubborn but I am an adult and able to state my opinion when I disagree (perhaps too well, bearing in mind what has lead to me starting this thread). He shouts at the children when they don't listen to him or they are misbehaving. He will start off talking to them and asking them to stop in a normal voice, but he escalates too quickly. My problem isn't the shouting of itself, I'm not going to say I have never shouted at them. It's the frequency and the fact that at times his tone can change and I can tell he is angry, rather than just raising his voice. He does have a naturally very loud voice that carries a long way, he's never been able to talk quietly, which is his defence. But I feel he crosses a fine line.

another one who can’t see what’s “controlling” in the examples you’ve given. Lately there have been a few threads where OPs have said their male partner says they are controlling. TBH this often seems to mean “doesn’t support him 100% to do exactly what the fuck he likes at all times”.

None if those examples are controlling @Needtounderstand

I agree, no joint councelling for the moment, get solo councelling first.

He's sounding a bit like a narrative changer to me but we don't obviously know the full story.

So he wants to separate, who suggested the councelling ?

Feels like the new term for nag

@Haffiana the therapist hasn't directly said I'm controlling. She asked me today if I could see how it could come across as controlling. And in the context of the meeting, I am now able to see things more from DH's perspective.

Having said this, there are situations where I genuinely don't see how I could have dealt with it in a an alternative / non-controlling way. I think that's why I need to look into this myself.

I want to really consider if what I am doing could be controlling and address that if it is the case. Alternatively, I want to be sure that I've really examined my role in this and am certain it's not the case.

Other examples he has raised...

At a family BBQ we hosted 6 years ago most guests bought additional food to cook. We had lots of sausages and burgers left over, uncooked. DH wanted to cook them for packed lunches the next week, I didn't want him to do that as I felt there wasn't enough fridge space. I wanted them frozen for another day instead. The food was frozen, so I got the outcome I wanted. I truly don't see why he didn't just cook them if he wanted them.

I do an online food shop each week and plan meals for the next 7 days. He feels the way I plan is too rigid, the meals can't be swapped around to allow for us not wanting to eat a particular mean on a certain day. He mentioned this a few weeks ago, so the last 2 weeks we have done the meal planning together. I have pointed out the nights the children have clubs, so we need a meal that can be prepared quickly. The nights we eat separately so we don't have to plan for what the children will and won't eat, and what they have for school lunches so we can avoid meals which are repetitive. We also need to allow for the days the children are in wraparound care and the days I'm in the office so don't have time to prepare food during my lunch, whilst WFH. I thought we'd come to a really good compromise the first week we planned together. There were 2 or 3 nights that were interchangeable, with the caveat that he'd need to tell me what he wanted by a certain time as I'd have started cooking before he got home.

He said he could now see why I planned the way I did but that the way the meals were interchangeable felt contrived and as though I'd only done it because he'd said something. I feel stuck either way, because I had only done it because he'd said something.

I can see how he would feel controlled by being told what was for dinner each night, but with two lower end of primary age children, two full time jobs and food that has best before and use by dates, I don't feel the control is of my creation.

@WidthofaLine It was a joint decision. He doesn't know if he wants to continue the relationship or not. We're both hoping the counselling will provide clarity on that.

He’s moaning about freezing some meat 6 years ago! WTF - he doesn’t like how the food is organised then he does it himself for a month - perhaps he’ll get a bit of understanding then!

Christ, how tedious - him, not you.

You're not controlling. At all.

Im struggling to see why you want to stay with your prick of an oh though

If you are controlling you don't appear to be doing it very well

He shouts at the children and is aggressive, you don't want him to do that but he is still doing it

You don't like him with a beard and he knows that but he still has the beard

He doesn't like the way you meal plan but when you change it to how he wants it he still doesn't like it

He didn't want to use contraception but agreed to a second baby but now it's apparently your fault he has one

You once in all the examples got your way by him freezing some meat and he's still bringing it up as an example 6 years later

I literally could not live with a man who was still complaining that I thought some meat should go in the freezer 6 years ago. Every day is made up of a multitude of decisions and if you are tip toeing around even the little ones in case they are used against you years later than would be exhausting.

Meanwhile it would appear that you do all the meal planning and the cooking. Quite frankly if he doesn't like the way you do it he could always try doing it himself.

You say you are too tired to have sex often with him. Does he actually do any of the housework or parenting?

Following the appointment today he's not come home. The meeting was via Zoom and we were in different places.

I messaged him afterwards to tell him I loved him, that I hadn't realised how the way I acted came across and I would work on that.

He replied to say that after the session he really didn't know how he felt. That if I knew how I was behaving and did it anyway how could I not feel it was controlling to get the outcome that I wanted. That he loves our second child but the reason he's here is because I wanted him and DH didn't get a say. He didn't know if he wanted to come home from work / for the weekend as his head couldn't process the fact that I've admitted to doing things because I wasn't happy with the choice he was making and yet I wouldn't admit that was controlling. He wanted to come home for the children but not for us. He doesn't know what he wants.

This is pretty much verbatim the message he sent. I think he's missed the point that I didn't realise at the time how it felt to be on the receiving end of my actions but equally he is dyslexic so I'm not sure if he's been typing from a very emotional place.

It was at that point I self referred for therapy via the NHS and I replied to tell him I'd done that because I needed to understand better how I was Controlling.

He replied to thank me for doing the referral and say that he was going to spend the weekend with a friend and will be home on Sunday evening. I was out of the house this afternoon and I think he's been back to collect clean clothes.

Hmmm I think there’a more going on here.

I think the issue is, life with young kids can be really monotonous.
If you don't want to be eating dinner at 9 p.m. or throwing out food because its gone past its sell by date, there's an element of planning required.
In fact, life with young kids makes spontaneity hard.
He's mistakenly putting this down to you being controlling. Its not.

My ex DH and I were really unsuited, and this was a large part of it.
Before kids it didn't matter.

As he's my ex, you'll be able to tell we didn't make it work.

Do you think he could be cheating on you?

Cause he is spinning you a whole load of bullshit while treating you like shit.

And you're buying it.

I feel ‘the script’ is incoming, sorry OP.

When you disagree on a subject/choice/action, how often does the outcome go your way? I'm not saying that it shouldn't BTW, just that perhaps you aren't that compatible if there are a lot of disagreements.

I would absolutely put money on your husband having an affair and his whole narrative just being a version of The Script where he blames you for driving him away with your “controlling” ways even though appears to have been making choices entirely of his own free will.

I freely admit that I think this because the parallels with my own life and ex’s narrative are absolutely uncanny.

I too tied myself up in knots trying to understand how to never make him feel “controlled” (which basically meant never having any opinions or needs of my own).

When I finally discovered that my ex had been extensively lying to me for years, it suddenly became clear how the whole “controlling” narrative was just fake victim-posturing and a way of avoiding responsibility and compromise and just doing whatever he wanted with zero accountability.

I hope this isn’t the case for you but honestly so many red flags are waving to me here.

So essentially when you say no and he wants it to be yes, he's sulking because he thinks you should do it anyway (sex)

But when he says yes and he wants it to be no he's sulking because you did it anyway (children)

And meanwhile you are self referring for therapy for your controlling behaviour?

He really has fucked with your head hasn't he

That he loves our second child but the reason he's here is because I wanted him and DH didn't get a say.

You literally gave him a say and he has now decided he doesn't like his choice and its your fault

I agree with the others, this is just part of the script

He had a say. He could have used a condom.

Sorry OP - there’s a lot more to unpack here but he’s the one who is now sounding controlling.