I think I'm controlling

[Needtounderstand]

DH and I are have just had our second relationship counselling session. There are multiple issues but something he has said is that he finds some of my behaviour controlling. I'd genuinely never thought that about myself before but something has clicked today.

I need to work on this and have done a referral to find a therapist for myself via the NHS locally. In the meantime are there any resources such as books or podcasts that anyone can recommend? Understandably there's lots of support for victims but less for perpetrators.

Thank you.

The thing is life becomes more rigid when you have children especially young ones

It sounds like he wasn't prepared for the boring humdrum reality of small children and all the routine that can bring. So he has left it to you to do all the mental work associated with that change. And now he's upset he can't choose which night he has his mushroom risotto on because he's already chosen something for another night and that's somehow your fault because you 'changed because you had a baby'. With a side order of you don't have sex enough with him.

This just sounds like a typical 'you changed after a baby' = you became more responsible and mature and he didn't and now he feels left out and that must be your fault because he can't be wrong.

I also want to add that in large part I spent so much time struggling to understand exactly how I was causing problems in our relationship by 'being controlling' (so that I could stop and therefore fix the problem) even though my ex's claims seemed weak, petty or illogical because it never occurred to me that he would be shameless enough to manufacture claims of being a victim while knowing full well he was actually the one doing something truly damaging to the relationship, but behind my back.

After the truth came out, I felt so angry with myself that I hadn't had my own back. Deep down I KNEW his claims were vague and nonsensical, but I kept trying to accept what he was saying because I did not even consider the possibility that he was flat-out lying to and gaslighting me. I would never contemplate doing that to a partner and I did not imagine him he would do it to me either. But he did, and the hardest lesson for me was realising that all the signs were in fact there to be seen, and I had wasted years of my life ignoring them and stressing myself out, when I could have saved myself the pain if I had only been willing to consider the unthinkable, ie that my ex was not the decent person he pretended to be and that I wanted to believe he was.

Who is this 'friend' he's staying with?
Why can't he nip to a shop to cook whatever he wants for himself?

He wants to leave but he wants it to be your fault so he doesn’t have to feel bad about it.

This just sounds like a typical 'you changed after a baby' = you became more responsible and mature and he didn't and now he feels left out and that must be your fault because he can't be wrong.

Yup, 'You changed after we had a baby' came out of my ex's mouth word-for-word during his period of using nice big broad-brush criticisms as a way to blame me for any and all issues in our relationship.

One thing I found that helped me gain clarity was that whenever he did this, I would say, "That's quite vague, can you explain some of the ways that I changed and why they were a problem for you?" Inevitably he would just make another broad-brush character attack (like, 'You became really controlling' or 'You never seemed to be happy') and if pressed for actual details or examples, would claim not be able to remember anything specific. Over time, I realised that he couldn't back up what he was saying because his claims were actually groundless. He was just trying to gain control by beating me down with criticisms.

Don't bother with the NHS. I've been on the list for 9 years now.

I've gone private. They don't help unless you want to kill yourself.

It sounds as though you think through the options, assess what will work in your situation and then move on.
But his issue is that he does not want to assess the options and potential outcomes or wants to go with an unsuitable option because it's what he wants without considering the impact on everyone.

The mushroom dinner example, so he wanted you to cook a dinner that only suited him and not the kids because he didn't want to be hemmed in by constrictions? But ignores that if you'd cooked that you'd also need to cook something else for the kids? But he wasn't offering to do either of the cooking jobs?
So essentially he just wants things his way wothout considering the rest of the family's needs? 🙄

Sounds like he wants an easy spontaneous life but ignores that he has a family and children but doesn't do anything to enable spontaneous decisions. Because when there is other people and other people's lives to consider spontaneity can only happen when you deliberately make space for it.

I’m so sorry OP but it sounds like he’s already checked out of your marriage and is planning on blaming you to make himself feel better. The therapist is playing right into his hands. When he leaves he will tell you it’s all your fault. Shortly after that he will meet someone. Of course we all know he’s already ‘met’ them.

I’m sorry. It definitely reads as though he has had his head turned.
This is the script.

In the examples you give, you are NOT controlling

The therapist is very strange imo

What has she said about DHs shouting and aggression? For me, this comes across as controlling behaviour from DH

So he’s opted out of family life for the weekend, and is staying with a “friend”?

You deserve much better. Let the idiot go.

I don’t think it’s you either OP. I think he’s checked out and he’s using it as a cop out so he doesn’t feel bad

Commiserations to the woman who’s about to find out too late that the man she’s been having an affair with is Mushroom Gnocchi Therapy Guy.

Hang on a minute. Feeding everyone every night is "controlling " ?

He can take over and be responsible for food shop and meal planning then 🤔

I think from the way these messages developed on the thread you don't believe you are controlling. You don't need us to validate this. There is no point trying to look like you are genuinely considering whether it is true when you aren't. Own it. If those examples are his issue then you aren't controlling. But I have to say there is only one way to see this based on your messages and that is your way. This makes for uncomfortable reading and I can't quite put my finger on why.

I don’t think you sound controlling at all but I do think you sound incompatible. I would find your level of planning suffocating and I am also a working mum of two primary aged children.

It sounds like you are super organised and efficient (and that is very much a compliment) but the level of justification and negotiation needed just to justify a late meal change would be draining. You are one step ahead of him all the time I guess and maybe it does lead him to feel without choice. You’re not wrong but some people don’t like to live life with such military precision and yes family life can work successfully without it. If he really wanted to have mushroom gnocchi on the Tuesday (or whatever) where’s the harm giving the kids the option of having an alternative or eating later than them for an extra night? Rather than having to make a case of why the gnocchi had to be for another night.

Like I said you are not controlling but are possibly quite rigid which isn’t a life for everyone. That said, he is feeling very sorry for himself and it is not fair to cast you as the villain. Because the alternative is that no planning at all is done and he’s blaming you for too much chaos.

I think from the way these messages developed on the thread you don't believe you are controlling. You don't need us to validate this. There is no point trying to look like you are genuinely considering whether it is true when you aren't.

Yeah, agree with this. It sounds dead in the water anyway.

I can't quite figure out myself whether you are too wrapped up in the daily grind, that's reasonable, life takes planning, but you seem oblivious to some of the suggestions that he may have had his head turned. There seems to be no response to the fact that these politics of daily life can be the only reason he's gone.

I mean my first response is to tell you to wise up to how he's done a number on you, that he's bamboozeling and confusing you so much with the banality of your arguments that it keeps you occupied so you don't see the reality of him pretending to be single and wanting time out of the relationship.
But he's gone so I think I would just send him a text and say you know he's having an afair and you want a divorce, that will end his happy weekend, oh and tell him you'll drop the kids off tommorow.

Why are you still talking about food, your husband has left.

None of the incidents you've related, if you've presented them accurately,* *come across as controlling. Especially if he's shouting, which is also a form of being controlling!

That said, I do have a controlling mother and it's not really in what she says, but how she says it... Her planning genuinely holds the family together, so it's really hard to bring this up without sounding unappreciative.

She plans and micro-manages everything to precision. E.g. when we lived together, she wanted me to do the housework in a certain way on a certain schedule, but I preferred to do it on my own time by a certain weekly deadline, but that wasn't good enough for her.

The problem is her tone and her mannerisms. She is forceful with her opinions, and she emanates displeasure & passive aggression, expresses neurotic worries, etc, when it's not 100% her preferred choice.

I used to verbally clash with her (quite badly!) as a totally counterproductive way of seeking her approval and justifying my choice... But nowadays I just leave it. I've sort of just accepted that everything I do in my own way is a constant disappointment to her, unless it's in line with what she wants, then it's all cheery and hunky-dory.

Against my better judgment though, I've worked really hard at our relationship over years, and I've realised her external behaviour may be misleading. She actually might be okay with not getting her way 100% of the time. It's just that her external behaviour when she wants to assert a preference is geared towards negativity – maybe because it was the safest way for her choice to be validated as a child? Or maybe it's a way of trying to express and "self soothe" her anxiety around that not being her preferred choice?

This may not be relevant to you at all, but I just thought I'd mention it just in case? However, if the other party is shouting, then I hardly think you're the only one at fault! And again, if you've presented these examples accurately, it sounds like it could just be a personality difference.

I will say men do create many types of diversion tactics for keeping you in the dark for as long as possible.

So let's assume you are not controlling, why do you think he is behaving the way he is ?

I agree with this. I would suggest getting another therapist. Maybe there is some controlling/anxious behaviour on your part (it’s difficult to tell without knowing you) but there is definitely some very unreasonable behaviour on his part too.

He’s a grown man, he has to take responsibility for decisions HE made (like choosing to have a second child, growing a beard etc). It sounds like you are the blame scapegoat when he doesn’t get the desired outcome on decisions he took. He is clearly capable of doing things that he knows you don’t like (growing a beard which is his choice, shouting at the children) so I find it hard to believe he felt bullied into making a decision he wasn’t happy with- he’s making choices at the time and then blaming you when he later regrets them.

The only thing you are pushing him to do is actually make a decision on something because it directly impacts your life and your future. I don’t see that as controlling but others may disagree.

I felt a growing sense of dread with each update.

It.is.not.you. GET A NEW THERAPIST.
Awful behaviour from them.

Has he conveniently forgotten. All the times he 'got his way'. He is confusing 'feeling controlled' with 'having a plan'. Anyone who doesn't have a plan with young kids AND SURVIVES, must be a superhero. Seriously. Not possible. Let him manage all those extras for a month. Then see if he gets upset about having pasta on a Wednesday when he wanted it on a Tuesday.

I feel sad and angry that you are accepting this. Please listen to all the replies you have got here - I also feel like the script is on its way!

Gawd he sounds unpleasant.
Anyone who can just walk out on their kids without batting an eyelid is a shit.
shouting angrily at his children - surely the counsellor said this was terrible?
He needs to grow up imv.
He doesn’t want the responsibility of a family and is concocting reasons to justify getting out.

Well first of all I would say that regardless of the control aspect, aggressive shouting is not ok and there is no excuse for that.

However I might be able to shed some light on the issue you are describing being a planner myself.

To me it sounds that sometimes you think that because you have thought through the plans you have made, you think your conclusion is the only conclusion and are being a bit inflexible. I.e. he can make choices aa long as it fits with your overall plan, which you have already decided on anyway.

Best example would be the gnocci. I generally think if he would be cooking it, it's up to him if he has it. What you said about 'there's no point trying the kids on that' is actually a matter of opinion. Maybe he doesn't mind the kids trying it, doesn't share your views about what the children should eat, for example. If he does half the cooking and fancies something different, where is the harm in just saying alright?

Also, you doing OMM and basically giving him a chore of cleaning the bathroom as it fits in with the method.

It does sound as if you have planned a lot around what you think is best, and are then inflexible about working outside of your own system. However e.g. with cooking where you do half of it, is it more important that things are done your 'ideal way' - would it be worth reflecting on how important this really is and if it would really matter if DH does something differently, in fact it could be healthy and make everyone feel more like they are contributing?

E.g. just because you have planned life in the way you think makes most sense, it sounds to me that more of that is based on your own preferences and opinions than you may realise. So sometimes when you say 'we can't do it that way' what that means is 'we can't do it that and still fit in with what I think we should be doing overall'. Which is more opinion than fact, but presented as fact.

Does that make sense? I have had to do work on similar issues myself so this is NOT coming from a place of judgement.

I will say though that the beard thing is total nonsense. Why should you ever have to have sex when you won't enjoy it?

I get that stonewalling etc is a form of control, but I don't think that not having sex you won't enjoy it is 'witholding'. Saying no to sex is perfectly acceptable and you should not be made to feel that you somehow owe him sex.