Not being an awful MIL is much harder than it looks!

[Butterflyhelp]

My MIL was a nightmare, always jealous of any time we spent with my parents and often upset that she felt DH we didn't visit enough when had busy lives and couldn't fit in everything we wanted to do at weekends.

DS and GF are about to move into their own home. Her parents have been far more involved than me. I've really tried to stay back and let them have this chapter of their lives, but it turns out her parents have been involved in everything, gone to all the viewings, given loads of advice etc. If I'd known they wanted help I'd have given it willingly and am arguably better qualified to give it but I didn't want to interfere. I'm now feeling very hurt at being excluded. Also worried about some of the advice they've had!

I also feel very stressed at how much contact I'll have/be allowed once he leaves. I know he won't visit or phone unless I "remind" him. I don't want to be demanding and I'm not expecting a lot, but I also don't want lose touch completely.

I like GF but ever since he became smitten, she's had a lot of control and everything he does is about keeping her happy. I'm not saying that's necessarily a problem, it's a natural progression in his life and I'm glad he's a good partner. I am and have been happy to step back, but I'm don't want to lose him altogether and I'm finding it very difficult that her family are always prioritised. This is obviously his choice, to let that happen, but that doesn't make it easier for me.

It doesn't help that her dad is prolific on FB and so I see all the dinners etc they have together, which are far more frequent than anything I get. I'm a widow and DS2 is away so there isn't the "family" for them to visit/return to like there is at her parents'

It is so much the pattern we had with my MIL. I'm finding it really hard and don't know what to do that doesn't make it worse.

My MIL was a nightmare, always jealous of any time we spent with my parents and often upset that she felt DH we didn't visit enough when had busy lives and couldn't fit in everything we wanted to do at weekends

Maybe now you know how you MIL felt. Funny how chickens come home to roost. If you put nothing in you get nothing out.

Sorry posted to soon.

I completely understand where you are coming from and as 1 of 3 girls we have all been very involved with our parents over the years. My DH parents are very hands off and my MIL says she made that choice as she wouldn’t be overbearing etc to us however that has really been her choice. We would never see them if we didn’t suggest it.

my sis and bro-in-law did the best thing and that was merged our family with his family so his mum and dad spent all christmas and family occasions with our family and we just became one big extended family.

I am lucky to have 2 boys and 1 girl and I really hope to recreate something similar with their partners families when the time comes.

maybe invite her and her parents over for a meal and get socialising with them, do the same over summer with a bbq and see how that goes

My husband puts a lot of effort in with his parents. I suspect that will come home to roost a lot more with my children than the effort coming all from me.

Would you rather spend time with people who let you know that they want to spend time with you too?
Or keep making an effort with people who don't make much effort with you?

@Imnoonesfool yes, we do this too. Have Christmas with both my parents and his parents. When my parents come to visit we all go for a meal together with my in laws. Any big family parties on both sides (60ths etc), my parents/DHs parents are invited.

This. And not just emotional labour either. Can I give another perspective from someone whose relationship is going through a difficult phase?

My husband does almost nothing around the house or with our children. He works the entire time. His life is in the office. I do (or outsource and supervise) all the childcare, cooking, cleaning, laundry, activities, swimming lessons, school run, gifts, birthday parties, night wakings etc. All with a small breastfed baby in tow. I also wfh part-time.

My parents help me with the house and children (when they can) because they know that's the only break I get. They're happy to turn up to a messy house, kitchen not wiped down, no food in, beds need to be made up. My mother will take charge, tidy everything, cook dinner for us... My father doesn't do that stuff but will at least hold the baby and play with my older one while I have a nap. I don't have to do anything for them coming and they know where everything is. ..

I like my in-laws. I like them better than my husband actually. They're more helpful and better company. But when they come, I spend the days beforehand scrubbing the house and changing beds so the place is half-habitable for their visit. I'm exhausted when they come. And then they say things like "Let's cook dinner so Sleepless can have a rest". So I go upstairs to bed or to run myself a bath. And then I spend the next hour being disturbed by their useless son who never cooks (but will make an effort for show when his parents are there 😡!) coming up to ask things like "Do we have a garlic crusher?" or "Where do you keep the cheese-grater?" The first hour I've supposedly had off for weeks and he's turning out the cupboards looking for a fucking cheese grater so he doesn't look bad in front of his mum!!

I enjoy their visits but they're a lot of work for me. They can't get stuck into our family life like my parents can, and that's largely down to the role (or lack thereof) played by their son in our day-to-day lives.

Rant over... I guess what I'm saying is that encourage your son to be a good partner and to nurture relationships, and then hopefully you'll play a greater role in their lives. Don't put it on your DIL.

This is such a tricky one and I really feel for you.

I think it might be helpful to stop seeing it as a competition so much (not consciously but it comes across in your posts)- you present yourself as first losing out to his GF and then losing out to her family. You also seem too worried about what you should do (in terms of stepping back etc) and I must say I wonder whether you've been on sites like MN too long- I think reading about other people's MILs and their supposed failings (too involved, not involved enough etc etc) can make you a bit paranoid and paralysed in your own life as you're unable to see things except through the prism of other people's complaints (of course this may not be true at all and it might be your first time here, but you do seem to be overthinking).

There isn't much in your post about what you actually want, what a good relationship with your DS would look like from your perspective. I would try to forget what they are or aren't doing with her family and think instead about building the relationship you want. Then start making it happen. Stop constantly thinking you have to step back and not get involved and then wondering why you're not involved. Pick up the phone. Invite them to things. Yes, some MILs are too pushy but you sound the opposite- you're too reticent- so you maybe need to aim off a bit for that.

Do you have a lot going on in your own life? I can see that being a widow might make things harder- you don't have the same critical mass when it comes to hosting etc and it's easy to lose confidence. Would it be easier to try to arrange different sorts of things to do together rather than dinners?

One practical tip- resist the urge to being every call or get together with a complaint about how you never see them, even if it's true.

As a (now) older person, I always got on much better with my in laws than with my own parents, who I heartily disliked. Although they all lived a fair distance away, thank goodness, I would be much more likely to suggest a visit to my in laws. But 2 or 3 times a year was sufficient for all concerned - and that was with a good relationship. I never policed how often my husband contacted his parents, as it was nothing to do with me, but he probably phoned once a week or so. If any of them had put pressure on me to visit/phone, that would have just put me off completely.
Some relationships work well, and some don't - ultimately, it's just down to the relevant individuals.

I adore my in-laws. As awful as I feel writing this, I actually prefer spending time with them rather than my own parents.
If it's any consolation, DH has much more contact with his parents since we got married and even more so since we had children.
My in-laws are very quiet and traditional (quite different to my parents) and I actually prefer their way of life compare to what I grew up with. I like that they invite us for Sunday lunch, they book Panto tickets for us all at Christmas (obviously asking us first), take the children on days out or pay for us all to go together.
I can imagine just how difficult/upsetting your current situation is but don't let yourself fade in to the background. Keep an interest in what your DS & his GF are doing, text/WhatsApp/ring, invite them out for dinner or to yours.

I don't think you should be blaming yourself OP and there's absolutely no point in people blaming your previous relationship with your MIL, you dealt with her as best as you could, sometimes that means taking a step back.

Your relationship with your son is very different. I very much doubt that he's subconsciously or effectively said to himself "In our family we ignore MILS as much as possible so my DM can get lost."

It's clear that you care about him and DIL and have a lot of self awareness and that's why you've been letting them take the lead, but would like to have a closer relationship now.
For all you know, your DS might feel a bit overwhelmed by having DIL's family so involved and is thinking, thank goodness my Mum is letting us get on with it.

You don't know what he's thinking actually, so everything here is speculation.
Why not have a gentle talk with your son and find out? How often would you like to see them? For what it's worth I do think he could make a bit more of an effort to see you. It's probably been so busy with settling into the new house.
The good thing is he probably already trusts you to be a flexible person and not to take offense at every setback. You sound like a considerate self-aware person and I'm sure your son knows that and appreciates it.

This is a tricky one. I have two young girls so won’t be in this position. However, my own DH is awful at keeping in contact with his mum in terms of arranging visits and sending pics of the kids, although he does send her flowers on her birthday etc. also, MIL moved away specifically to be nearer to the her daughter, apparently because the daughter said she would look after her in her old age. This wasn’t discussed with the two sons which caused a bit of offence. My MIL since she moved, never ever calls my DH so they are as bad as eachother. She is always making passive aggressive comments about how she doesn’t see the grandkids enough but it’s hard for us to go down a lot as we have to stay and weekends are busy etc. I think there is an underlying thing with her that she thinks he should be the one to call her all the time and they whole family are rubbish at just saying what they mean, just a strange vibe. Anyway, I sort of delegated all arranging with kids and visiting to my DH recently so we’ll see how that goes. To answer the question, I think that, to have a good and non strange, communicative relationship as a MIL in the way daughters seem to have the work really needs to start when the sons are kids and model the relationship they want to see. E.g my DH dad is very quiet and passive and all arranging always went through his mum, his mum was also always closer to the daughter and is a bit overbearing with the sons, treats them like children. So now one of the sons has two granddaughters, she’s moved away…and hey presto she finds herself on the position that my DH won’t proactively arrange visits…but he’s modelling what he’s seen in childhood?! If they’d had a childhood where she was more responsive to his emotional needs, more open, and the dad did more of the childcare and ‘wife work’ it might be different. Mine are young so I’m desperate to put the work in now so we have a good and close relationship when we are older…but don’t know where to start!

I am not a mil, yet. But I think it must be hugely difficult.

I saw it with my mum, dbro and his wife. Examples being like mum would call dbro and invite him somewhere. Dbro would say ‘check with wife, send her a message I think we might have plans’. So mum did. Dbros wife got pissed off. But at my mum not dbro.

I saw mum try and stand back, try to chip in and dbro and wife never feel she got the balance right. They lived very close to mum and relied on her a lot. But also resented her for them buying a house close to where she lived. She had been in the same house for 30 years. They never expressed annoyance at my dad though.

They once told mum and dad they were living to be close to her parents, mum and dad wished them well and asked what help they needed. Dbro and wife were annoyed they weren’t upset they were moving. But I know if mum had have done anything they perceived as slightly negative. It would wrong too.

On the other side, I did see mum overstep a few times. Genuinely, believing she was helping or being kind. But it was over stepping.

I got in well with both my Mils. They weren’t perfect. Neither I am. So we operate like that. Sometimes someone annoys you and you let it go, because it’s not that big of a deal.

Or, rather than the essay I wrote, what @MrsBennetsPoorNerves said!

I have observed with myself and a lot of my friends that if the daughter has a good relationship with her mum and family then there is a natural gravitation that occurs to the woman's side of the family. I definitely did it without realising with my family. I am obviously closer to my mum, I know her more so trust her more. I speak to her more and she lives a lot closer. There was never any bad feeling towards my MIL (even though she is not very engaged) but I can see why it would make her feel left out. We have very much tried to include her in a lot of family activities and she says she is grateful for the invite but will rarely come.

My DH loves him mum, is good and keeping in contact but he doesn't ask for help or advice and she would proudly say that she raised him that way to be independent. My DH will tend to rely on my mum more for child care and help with things because she is always happy to be involved and help.

I think that sometimes (definitely not every time) the dynamics of mother -and-daughter and mother-and-son relationships are just very different.

So in our family, DH is very quiet, and I am chatty, and also very close to my parents. This has resulted in my parents knowing a lot more about what's going on with us, and they are also the type to just offer "will we help with ....", which I take or leave depending on whether it suits - but often take. DH's parents don't offer help (but would if asked), however it wouldn't dawn on DH to ask them, he's very independant. I sometimes prompt him, but reastically I leave him to manage the relationship with them 95% of the time. So I can see how this situation would end up seeming like yours, but without any dislike or malicious intent. In our case, if the status quou were to change it would have to come from DH actively including them in more of what we do - and that wouldn't come naturally to him

Mil would say that she sees less of dh since hes been with me but in reality she wants everyone to see her in her home,she never makes the effort unless she wants dh to do a job for her.Hes sick of it so will ring her to check up on her but chase after her anymore

Not chase after her i meant.

Mil is an active 66 year old who has several holidays a year she just cba to see ner son and young grandson

What strikes me is that (on this thread anyway), you've positioned yourself as a MIL and not a mother, when this all is about your relationship with your son.

Perhaps this is part of the problem?

Ignore people saying that you’ve brought your DS up to be like this. Not everything kids do is down to their upbringing.

It’s pretty normal for the woman’s parents to be prioritised. Thinking back though, I think the couple just gravitate towards the family who fit in with their life at the time. So when I was first with my exH we’d spend our evenings at his house because in most ways his family were more relaxed and we were allowed to cook and be on our own. But then we’d go back to my parents to sleep because my FIL was old fashioned and I wasn’t allowed to stay over.

It’s great that your DS has a ready made family. I’d be happy about that but worried about what would happen if they didn’t stay together.

I think it’s important to say what we feel so that people don’t make assumptions. So I would never give someone space without explaining why I was doing that in case they thought I wasn’t interested. So personally I’d write and explain that I was glad that they were happy and understood that I couldn’t offer them a secure family with all the benefits that brings, but that I loved them and was happy to help them and to just let me know.

I'm very lucky with my DS and DIL. I actually feel closer to DS now than I did for a long time. I also think DIL is very good for my DS.

I do have to remember not to offer advice, as they are both in their 30's. DIL is very inclusive and they both invite me round regularly.

This is an extremely good point.

I agree with this except I don't think you should write this... It's so sensitive and Writing can be so open to misinterpretation and people can read into it all sorts of things you never intended. It's best done face to face.

Op you clearly love your son, but you sound very passive in how you nuture your relationship with him. He is starting on an exciting new stage of his life and if you want to be a part of that, you can’t just sit back and expect it to happen.
Do you ask him questions and genuinely listen to his replies and show an interest. Do you remember the things he tells you and bring them up at a later to point? Do you invite them to dinner etc? Ask about their new house and share their excitement?
You are still the parent and in some ways still have to guide the relationship you have with him. He is an adult but still learning.
As others have said there is a big difference between not interfering and appearing to be completely disinterested. I don’t share much with my mil because she never asks anything and if I try to share some news I get such a minimal response it’s not worth the effort. So we just don’t communicate much at all.

I hope to God your son doesn't every head you say any of the things you've said on here, because I'm only too aware of how my mother sneers about my brother's in laws - calls them The Posse, because they're a big family who do loads together.
She thinks that they're keeping my DB brother from her, but he's very happy to be around people who love him, love his wife, and are jolly.

It seems to me that your instinct not to be overbearing, while correct and kindly meant, has gone too far. And unfortunately, for whatever reason, men are far more likely to leave the organising and planning to the women in their lives.

DH speaks to his family often - some live locally some live far away. But it never ceases to amaze me how even when his mum is here for ages, if she's staying with his sister, NOTHING gets planned. She won't impose and he won't think about it. So unless I do... nothing happens.

I have no idea how to overcome that. DS is already happy to let the planning fall to me and his sister. DD is already better at organising things than DS and Dh combined (admittedly, both DS and DH probably have inattentive ADHD and definitely have executive function issues. As do, I suspect, MIL and SIL).