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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Desperately in need of help to understand my wife (and myself)!

373 replies

greengriff · 21/02/2023 12:14

I’m really in need of some advice. My relationship with my wife is currently at its lowest ebb. There are many reasons, but I wanted to focus on just one of them, an incident that took place on holiday last year. I want to talk about this incident firstly because my wife described this it as the ‘breaking point’ in our marriage and that it caused her to hate me a little bit, and secondly because I don’t understand why she blames me for it and I would really, really like to.

First a bit of what I believe is relevant background information: My wife grew up with a very domineering father. She chafed under his rules and couldn’t wait to get out of his house and rule her own life. Consequently, anything she even perceives as an attempt by me to tell her what to do is like a red rag to a bull and is guaranteed to lead to an instant confrontation. She views these kind of moments through the dynamic of sex (i.e. ‘you think because you’re the man that you should be in charge..’ etc.) whereas I view them as simply a clash of two quite dominant personalities. She very much emphasizes her independence as a grown woman from the need for a man and considers it patronising and reacts negatively if I ever have an opinion (apart from praise) regarding how she’s doing something. She is an extremely intelligent, strong-willed and capable person who, if she decides she’s going to do something, will work ceaselessly until she does. She’s definitely not one of life’s victims.

Anyway, to the point: We were on a skiing holiday last year. The slope at the time was very icy but pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels. But it was indeed icy and unpleasant to ski and she was not definitely having fun, so - seeing that she was struggling - I offered to help. She shouted some abuse at me and skied off. Feeling thoroughly pssed off that an attempted act of kindness elicited such an unexpected response, I skied off in a different direction to do my own thing. When we met back at the hotel in the afternoon she told me that I’d abandoned her, leaving her scared and alone, ignored her calls, left her with no money and no idea how to get back to the hotel and that the whole thing was my fault. This obviously irritated the living sht out of me as I believed that I’d done nothing wrong and was in fact the wronged party.

This argument never really went away and we got stuck into it again last night, where some extra details were added that only increased my frustration and lack of understanding of her, and maybe even myself:

She said she needs a husband who’s there for her regardless of what she says. But for me it’s not what she says, it’s what she does. If she insults me and storms off am I supposed to go and plead with her to come back?

She then said that I would not have left a child in the same situation, to which I agreed, but said that she is a capable and responsible adult and therefore it’s different. She then said she wants the same kind of love and caring that I’d give a child and that she needs me to ‘be the man’ and ‘be her hero’ and be committed to her safety even when she’s acting like a twat.

And finally she said that she wants someone who would move a mountain for her even when she’d directly told them not to!

Thinking about this just makes my head ache! For 99.9% of the time in our relationship if I’d gone directly against her wishes or treated her like I would a child it would have led to an explosion that made Hiroshima look tame! Yet I’m supposed to do this – to ‘be the man’ and make her act against her own will – at certain times when she’s most angry and attacking? And not doing so is my fault and makes her hate me!?

What does this actually mean? That her ‘independent woman’ persona is not real? That it is real, right up until the moment that it isn’t, and I’m supposed to know when those moments are and switch role to the helpful patriarch? Something else?

If someone can shed some light on this please do as I’m really struggling. If I can’t solve this puzzle our relationship is likely to fail, and that’s the last thing I want.

Maybe it’s not her and there’s actually something wrong with me! If you think so, please tell me straight!

OP posts:
new2mn · 22/02/2023 12:44

And again how am I supposed to know that you insulting me and storming off is a secret message that I have to follow you. First I'm not a dog, and second what if you say I'm invading your space?

Luckily my DH is kind and reasonable, I wonder what PPs put up with in their own marriage to blame OP for not being a pathetic doormat... Or maybe they're the equivalent of the wife

BadNomad · 22/02/2023 12:47

I think a lot of people are seeing themselves in the wife's behaviour and so need to defend it.

SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox · 22/02/2023 12:53

I haven't read people 'defending' the wife.
Op asked for help understanding where she was coming from. Lots of people have tried to help with that (without condoning it)

new2mn · 22/02/2023 12:59

SoCunningYouCanStickATailOnItAndCallItAFox · 22/02/2023 12:53

I haven't read people 'defending' the wife.
Op asked for help understanding where she was coming from. Lots of people have tried to help with that (without condoning it)

No I can understand her deep seated fears but is it helpful or necessary to make OP out to be the villain? Who among us wouldn't be pissed off if that happened to us? And if you follow someone around who's made clear you're not welcome, I'd say you have awful self esteem issues!

HappinesDependsOnYou · 22/02/2023 12:59

In the words of my therapist "you are not a mindreader". You cannot know for sure what or why she is thinking what she is. If you are both willing couples therapy may help. Our therapist did couple and single so it helped resolve my childhood issues I was unknowingly bringing to my relationship. The Relate book better relationships helps with communication and may be worth a read. If you can do active listening about the event it may help. So one of you explains how you felt (no blaming just how you felt eg I felt abandoned rather then I felt you abandoned me) and the other person has to summarise what was said back. This ensures you are active listening and will highlight any areas that are not being heard. It won't resolve everything but may help see each others perspectives on the situation

Mumuser124 · 22/02/2023 13:01

So basically she’s taken on quite a masculin demeanour and expects you to be even more masculin than her or you’re crap?

You will never win against somebody who has your wifes mind set, she needs therapy to try and untangle unhealthy views of relationships.

She is your wife so absolutely you should be supportive, but being supportive and being a door mat who validates crappy behaviour is two different things.

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:01

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the nature of a ski resort.

She 'skiied off' and he chose to not follow. She is now downhill of him and cannot now follow him in any way. It is a deliberate act to chose not to follow, you won't just meet up magically when you have finished that run, you are separated. That is that.

I think it is good that you are questioning why you get so offended by a rude remark - I know lots of people are pathologising her and believe me I would be the last person to excuse abuse given my marriage was abusive, but a marriage should be able to tolerate a 'piss off' being said without this happening. Maybe she has to step on egg shells constantly for fear of offending him? We don't know. Maybe this one time when she was terrified, it spilled out? We don't know, but what I do know is that there is minimisation of the leaving her alone happening on here - the line 'she skied off' keeps being used, and anyone who has ever skied knows that that just means she 'continued to ski down and would be fully expecting him to be on the same run' yet he chose to leave her.

The fact you can't take responsibility for this decision to ski off will not go anywhere near resolving this and you will both be left in the trenches.

She apologises for telling you to 'piss off'
You apologise for leaving her

I don't think it is that complicated in this instance, the work you have to do is be able to communicate these things much better.

AdamRyan · 22/02/2023 13:01

new2mn · 22/02/2023 12:44

And again how am I supposed to know that you insulting me and storming off is a secret message that I have to follow you. First I'm not a dog, and second what if you say I'm invading your space?

Luckily my DH is kind and reasonable, I wonder what PPs put up with in their own marriage to blame OP for not being a pathetic doormat... Or maybe they're the equivalent of the wife

I tend to be suspicious of posts that choose one incident to illustrate a pattern of behaviour and then give no details.

What was the "help"? What was the "abuse"? Why didn't op answer his phone? What had they previously arranged about the hotel/bus?

Imo skiing is a different scenario to a usual argument. It's hard to find people if they go in a different direction, it's icy, feels dangerous. A lot of people feel very unsafe skiing alone. So personally I wouldn't intentionally ski off in a different direction to the person I was with, without telling them.

That's childish and poor communication on his part.

It's very odd to me that OP doesn't want to consider his wife's perspective (despite saying he wants to understand)

I'm suspicious this is a thread where he's going to show it to his wife to back up his position that she's crazy and needs therapy, when OP hasn't given enough detail to know whether or not that's the case.

MsCactus · 22/02/2023 13:01

greengriff · 22/02/2023 10:32

Right and wrong absolutely matters. Of course either one or both of us might have been wrong. If I'm wrong then that's fine, but I want - need - to understand why. I think most people accused of something they absolutely believed they were not responsible for would want to resolve the matter.

OP the other poster got it right when they said there's no objective truth to who is right or wrong.

My mum always used to say to me that if one person acted 100% selflessly then there would be no argument - there's always a little wrongdoing on both sides in order for an argument to happen.

As I said above, I would be furious if my partner left me on the slope, it's a safety concern. I'd probably bring it up loads.

I'm not a particularly emotional/reactive person -never really argued with my partners very much, but I do have high standards for my relationships and would be livid in this situation. So maybe it just depends on personality

AdamRyan · 22/02/2023 13:03

She 'skiied off' and he chose to not follow. She is now downhill of him and cannot now follow him in any way. It is a deliberate act to chose not to follow, you won't just meet up magically when you have finished that run, you are separated. That is that.

Exactly. Thank you

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:09

This whole 'it was as wide as a football field' thing you keep saying about the run is actually pissing me off reading it btw.

Why is that relevant? I think you are insinuating that it was actually an easy run so what was her problem? Which also makes me think that the 'help' you offered her maybe was patronising and unsympathetic and you may well have deserved to be told to piss off.

Goodread1 · 22/02/2023 13:13

She sounds like she is emotionally fucked up,
She is in serious denial if she has never even Considered getting therapy of some sort,
She really needs to look into Therapy,

Living on egg shells is no picnic I know that for sure,

And if and how long it for takes to be effective if she seeks therapy ,

Fuck knows (God knows)
if it will work ?(as she could be too far gone

She reminds me of a couple/few people i know of,
And cause they were Batshit, hyper sensitive triggered by almost anything

I have seriously faded them out,
Prefer to keep them at a distance, not as friends anymore

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:18

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:09

This whole 'it was as wide as a football field' thing you keep saying about the run is actually pissing me off reading it btw.

Why is that relevant? I think you are insinuating that it was actually an easy run so what was her problem? Which also makes me think that the 'help' you offered her maybe was patronising and unsympathetic and you may well have deserved to be told to piss off.

Runs can be both wide and steep, wide and shallow, narrow and steep, narrow and shallow etc. You seem fixated on this for some reason. I'd already said the the run was icy and unpleasant to ski.

OP posts:
Goodread1 · 22/02/2023 13:19

I do think your wife does have a point about skiing incident of feeling not reassured at all, with you skiing
She sound she could hard work,
Be quite interesting to hear her side too

CDiamond · 22/02/2023 13:20

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:01

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the nature of a ski resort.

She 'skiied off' and he chose to not follow. She is now downhill of him and cannot now follow him in any way. It is a deliberate act to chose not to follow, you won't just meet up magically when you have finished that run, you are separated. That is that.

I think it is good that you are questioning why you get so offended by a rude remark - I know lots of people are pathologising her and believe me I would be the last person to excuse abuse given my marriage was abusive, but a marriage should be able to tolerate a 'piss off' being said without this happening. Maybe she has to step on egg shells constantly for fear of offending him? We don't know. Maybe this one time when she was terrified, it spilled out? We don't know, but what I do know is that there is minimisation of the leaving her alone happening on here - the line 'she skied off' keeps being used, and anyone who has ever skied knows that that just means she 'continued to ski down and would be fully expecting him to be on the same run' yet he chose to leave her.

The fact you can't take responsibility for this decision to ski off will not go anywhere near resolving this and you will both be left in the trenches.

She apologises for telling you to 'piss off'
You apologise for leaving her

I don't think it is that complicated in this instance, the work you have to do is be able to communicate these things much better.

This.

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:22

AdamRyan · 22/02/2023 12:35

I've found the bits where you can cross piste or ski off are generally not the steep/ice prone bits, as that would be incredibly dangerous.

Fact remains though that she was down hill of you and you chose to do in a different direction. She wouldn't be able to follow as she'd have to get to the bottom, get a lift back up and then figure out which way you went which is impossible if you skied off.

And she couldn't contact you so had no way of finding you.

skiing off was petty of you (but understandable) and it would probably move things forward productively if you apologised.

Maybe you don't ski much? The layout of runs is dictated by the natural terrain. It's not at all unusual for example for an easy blue to cut right across a steep black. Think of the Harakiri in Mayrhofen as an example.

There would be no point in me just making stuff up, or the advice I got based on it would be useless.

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:26

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:18

Runs can be both wide and steep, wide and shallow, narrow and steep, narrow and shallow etc. You seem fixated on this for some reason. I'd already said the the run was icy and unpleasant to ski.

Not fixated but certainly interested in how you are describing what happened. You have said in your OP that "pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels."

Someone earlier pointed to a lack of empathy. This strikes me as a demonstration of a lack of empathy. You thought it was an easy slope. So you think she should too - and do not compute that this could be hard for her? Is there any possibility that this view was translated into the 'help' you offered her? So more 'ffs' than 'you got this'?

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:27

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:22

Maybe you don't ski much? The layout of runs is dictated by the natural terrain. It's not at all unusual for example for an easy blue to cut right across a steep black. Think of the Harakiri in Mayrhofen as an example.

There would be no point in me just making stuff up, or the advice I got based on it would be useless.

You came on the thread asking if you had done anything wrong

There is an opinion on here that your choice to not follow her was wrong

Do you think it was wrong to chose to not follow her?

AdamRyan · 22/02/2023 13:28

Your need to be right at all times goes right down to not reading what was actually written or engaging with the point.

Your responses are patronising and focussed on proving your point. If you talk to your wife like this I'm not surprised she's annoyed with you.

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:29

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:26

Not fixated but certainly interested in how you are describing what happened. You have said in your OP that "pitch-wise it was nothing extreme. To give some perspective she’d skied steeper slopes many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times before and there were at least a hundred other people on it of all levels."

Someone earlier pointed to a lack of empathy. This strikes me as a demonstration of a lack of empathy. You thought it was an easy slope. So you think she should too - and do not compute that this could be hard for her? Is there any possibility that this view was translated into the 'help' you offered her? So more 'ffs' than 'you got this'?

No. I could see she was struggling, and it was icy and horrible.

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:30

Yet you "can't remember what you said" to her😬

Seems convenient

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:32

AdamRyan · 22/02/2023 13:28

Your need to be right at all times goes right down to not reading what was actually written or engaging with the point.

Your responses are patronising and focussed on proving your point. If you talk to your wife like this I'm not surprised she's annoyed with you.

Outlining the correct circumstances and answering criticisms of my description strikes me as pertinent to getting the best results out of this thread. Answers from people who have your incorrect assessment of the circumstances in mind when they formulate them are somewhat less likely to be helpful.

OP posts:
greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:34

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:30

Yet you "can't remember what you said" to her😬

Seems convenient

But I remember the gist. Can people really remember the exact words they said to someone a year ago, or do they just think they can? I don't think I can.

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:35

So do you think it was supportive husband material to ski off and leave her all day? Do you stand by that choice you made?

greengriff · 22/02/2023 13:35

hamstersarse · 22/02/2023 13:35

So do you think it was supportive husband material to ski off and leave her all day? Do you stand by that choice you made?

She skied off remember. I just didn't follow.

OP posts: