DH messaged OW. Can't decide whether to say I have crossed lines too.

[daughterof]

My DH and i have been together 15 years with young children, we have a business together and other ties.

He works away as part of our family business. He lets me use his phone freely. When I used it, there was a message in the scroll down bit. He had been messaging a woman about chipping in for renting a flat for an adult party and other things. No sexting, no pic exchange, but asking her about the event which had been cancelled amongtst othet things, saying he was planning to go. I have never had reason to think he has cheated on me before and he is the last man I would expect too. We have had very rocky times but solid for a while now and I love him.

He deleted the chat platform on his own volition and I have sneaked a look at his phone, he doesn't have anything in other chat platforms or the woman as a contact. We have an ongoing stressful situation and he said he is not thinking straight and just sent messages as one off. I messaged the woman, she confirmed no meeting and sent me copy of conversation history too, there are barely any messages.

I don't know how I feel moving forward. We have talked lots and he is very sad and ashamed. My gut feeling is I don't know how but i want the marriage to work. But I am worried as he has the opportunity if he wants to.

But. Last year across a few months, I formed an connection with a man. Nothing ever happened, no physical contact, no dates, no sexting, no pics. We happened to meet at a hobby I do and we fancied each other, we swapped no's and we sent friendly brief texts sometimes. He became frustrated I wouldn't have an affair with him but i said no as we were both married with children and even though things rocky with DH at thag point, I just couldn't do that to him/our family. He no longer attends the hobvy and we haven't messaged for months.

Now I know what DH has done, I feel so guilty and want to tell him what i did. But I am scared it will push him into pursuing another woman.

No, it's not.

Because it doesn't matter if he was also the guy who went off the rails a couple of years back.

His behaviour is still highly dodgy and his excuses didn't excuse him.

Children are involved in relationships with all manner of infidelity and abuse .... So ..

Many posters thought it unlikely that he's just looked up dogging sites/forums and then got into a convo with the organiser about joining and paying for an orgy.. completely out of the blue, in an isolated incident.

This proves they were right to think that.

Bad patch or not ... He's looking for sex outside your marriage. Even when it's relatively good and your sex life is active .. he's still looking for sex outside your marriage.

You had an emotional affair and stopped yourself short of sex.

I'm not saying what you did was ok, it wasn't; but his behaviour has a distinctly different motivation & style. As I said it seems more "dangerous" because it's totally sex based, and is whether your relationship is good or not.

when he was very depressed

His depression symptoms are unusual; most people I know couldn't think of sex if they were paid to when they're depressed.

(And if they take antidepressants, that becomes even more the case).

OP - I'm sorry but I think the majority of advice you've been given here is dripping in hypocrisy and completely missing the mark in speculation.

I suspect that when people are speaking with strangers online and seeking 'virtual' connection it is at least as often that they are fantasising, pretending to be someone else, adopting a persona - rather than being their authentic self. (This is why ppl are chatting for weeks and then ghosted before meeting up)
The things people say to strangers online when seeking connection may reveal their thoughts but not so often their actions.

And seeking connection outside of your marriage is exactly what you were engaged in - and not with a stranger- but in real life, for months, which takes a dedicated degree of deception. It is exactly how affairs start - how things 'just happen'. But as you found, when it moves from the world of your phone to the real world - its a big step. And you realised that there was at least another innocent party in his wife if it went any further.

The fact is you have both been disconnected from each other - both engaged in secretive behaviour and have both craved attention or connection that is not innocent. And a rough patch is often what leads people to project their desires onto others. And reaching out to others is invariably about escaping from yourself - feeling differently about yourself, and can absolutely come from feelings of unhappiness. It's probably the most common reason.

Minimising your betrayal while maximising your DPs may be offering you support - but it isn't honest or authentic. You fully understand the temptations, even though the way you and DH have responded are chalk and cheese, both responses are a exploring escape and both are perilous to your marriage.

I think you should be honest- because I think you would both benefit from couples counselling. I think you are both searching for the truth of where you are at so as to make sense of what it means for your future. Hiding your part in the disconnect during counselling would be counter productive and wasting your time. I don't know if your relationship with DH can get past this - but it is up to both of you, when you each have the full truth and can see and be seen.

Minimising your betrayal while maximising your DPs may be offering you support - but it isn't honest or authentic.

There is a difference between slipping into an emotional affair with someone you've see regularly and organically in real life ... while/after going through an extremely bad patch in a relationship - the details of which op has not specified and stopping short of actual physical contact due to ethics etc. ...... And actively seeking out sex with strangers via swinging, dogging, and "orgies".

Catch a grip.

both are perilous to your marriage.

The marriage might end due to an emotional affair; many people would not end a marriage with kids invced over an emotional affair. The clincher for many would be if it had ever been physical... And, by op's choosing, it was not.

We have yet to establish (and may never establish) if op's husband's activities included physical contact, or if they would become so if not caught and stopping or hiding them. If he has ir if he did, his activities out op at much greater risk than op - who did not even have physical contact but if she had would've done so with one man, who's clearly in an LTR with one other woman (he may cheat with more than one woman at a time but it's unlikely) ..... Whereas her h is delving into the seediest, roughest, multiple person sexual "arenas" that he can.

"Gang bang cancelled" .... "Oh that's a pity it's cancelled, is definitely image paid" (paraphrasing); they are not comparable.

And this, while he's encouraging her to TTC another child; which involves regular, unprotected sex and certain STDs could cause miscarriage or abnormalities (!).

The things people say to strangers online when seeking connection may reveal their thoughts but not so often their actions.

Who knows, I'm not sure how many of the posters responding have caught their husbands chatting with prostitutes about where they go dogging and about pitching in for an orgy ... In order to know what they'd do; bit what you have completely overlooked as a man ...vis that women do actually feel outrage avd sympathy and anger in behalf of they'd fellow women and do answer in a manner that reflects what they would advise if it were their sister or daughter etc. They want decent treatment for other women ... Not this shit. They don't want to see their fellow women gas lit or hoodwinked or manipulated either.

Oh, and for the record, if a man posted the reverse scenario I'd give exactly the same advice. And I still wouldn't think having an emotional affair with a hobby acquaintance who was very much ul.for it, but pulling himself up short before anything physical ... Was as bad as his wife being on swinging sites and dogging forums and apparently communicating eagerness to be involved in sex parties, and questioning where this particular person could be found dogging!

*Gang bang cancelled" .... "Oh that's a pity it's cancelled, I'd definitely have paid"

both are perilous to your marriage.

His activities also involve using family money for sex, while they're in debt.

Op's "affair" - which she stopped short of being physical - at least was fkg free.

completely missing the mark in speculation

Ah yes, women with experience of similar have said - as you can see a hundred times on here - that what you initially find may not be the full story..... That's common sense based on experience, not speculation.

And guess what ... When op looked at what she could, she found he'd been on a swinging site, as well as the convo with a prostitute she found recently. So they were correct in their "speculation".

One thing's for sure, he'll be deleting everything he can possibly remember now he's been caught.

@TicketBoo23 we don't know - and of course i could be wrong. But im genuinely saying that there are numerous aspects of the details shared by OP that absolutely don't point to "actively seeking out sex with strangers via swinging, dogging, and "orgies".

What they DO point to actively seeking out intimate chat and connection, and sexual conversation with people who might be already open to intimate chat (ie swingers).

Joining that group chat to say 'what a shame I'd have definitely paid' sounds to me like the most timid way of seeking to slide in and gain favour. It's a bit pathetic, but it hardly sounds sincere.

And setting up a profile without a picture on a swinging site is entirely consistent with a search for chat, not meeting.

OP isn't convinced he's had a physical affair. And my guess is if he'd been having an affair or meeting up for sex, he wouldn't be simping to complete strangers in group chats about cancelled events. There would be far more.
And yes - I do think there is a whole world of virtual connection out there - of intimate chat, sexting strangers, chat rooms etc that never gets to physical meeting.
Equally - if her DP discovered her phone records and texting history - he'd be equally entitled to think it's the tip of the ice berg and he would usually be right...but in this case wrong.
None of that makes any of it OK.

What they DO point to actively seeking out intimate chat and connection, and sexual conversation with people who might be already open to intimate chat (ie swingers).

Sexual conversation with prostitutes is neither intimate nor connected.

Sexting strangers, hanging around on stingers sites etc is cheating

This man is actively and deliberately seeking sexual kicks outside his marriage. He's also happy to pay for sex.

That makes me think:

1. He's already cheated on OP even if he hasn't had sex

1. Why wouldn't he have had sex given all that? It's no stretch at all to assume he has had sex with prostitutes while he's working away - the evidence is that's what he wants to do and also he lies.

You are being overly sympathetic to this man, he's been disgusting.

And setting up a profile without a picture on a swinging site is entirely consistent with a search for chat, not meeting.

Oh I missed this gem too. I'd say it was entirely consistent with a married man knowing he was cheating and not wanting to be spotted by someone who recognised him and knew he was married (or his wife)

And it's paid off as OP can't be certain it's him

Why are you so invested in minimising what this man is doing?

Thank you, AdamRyan, for pointing out the ridiculousness of some of Seadad's points.

In addition to not wanting to be recognised in the swinging site; there is the perfectly feasible possibility that he did post images at some point but since removed them.

*Joining that group chat to say 'what a shame I'd have definitely paid' sounds to me like the most timid way of seeking to slide in and gain favour. It's a bit pathetic, but it hardly sounds sincere.

Its possible to read it in an entirely different way; he's just being straight (ironic word in this context) - he genuinely is disappointed and genuinely thinks he would have paid towards the "sex party". He's indicating his interest in any future "endeavours".

This is corroborated by the fact that he didn't then end the convo and exit stage left .... He followed up by actually asking her where she goes dogging!!

So it sounds more like he, having seen he wasn't going to get to the chance of the "sex party" (which sounds more like cheap prostitutes servicing men in two rooms of an apartment) .... Dropped down to the next level , which was "oh well, I'll have to try the dogging then (not as salubrious as in an apartment but whatever) ... I'll ask her where I can do it/where she does it".

You are either very naive or very invested in minimiding this.

*minimising

Equally - if her DP discovered her phone records and texting history - he'd be equally entitled to think it's the tip of the ice berg and he would usually be right...but in this case wrong.

But that doesn't mean she's be wrong in thinking he may already have cheated, or would cheat sooner or later in these seedy sex scenarios he's seeking out

Her not following through to sex, does not mean he hadn't or wouldnt.

Ateotd she wasnt actually seeking sex, he has been.

*Her not following through to sex, does not mean he hasn't or wouldnt.

I think one of the main problems in this thread, and it happens a lot in life, is that there's a an inclination to set up a score sheet, or some kind of cancel out thing where the two people's behaviours are weighed and considered and the thought is "well that was worse than that, or they're sorgnuf equal etc etc" with the assumption that that means the relationship should continue if they can so shoe be weighed equally.

But that's a fallacy .... Op slipped into an emotional affair - partly because that's a risk for anyone - partly because she had her through a very bad patch on her marriage. Op has not detailed what that was; it might be illuminating if she does.

Her dh has been, at best, searching out sex outside the marriage. Only he knows his reasons for it but we know he's done it even when the bad patch was over and they appeared happy, with an active sex life and him wanting to ttc another child.

But it's fair to say his commitment and relative happiness in the marriage had nothing to do with why he's searching out sex outside the marriage, who h we don't know if he's actually done yet.

These are all problems, none of which cancel each other out.

*with the assumption that that means the relationship should continue if they can be somehow weighed equally.

You were actively having an emotional affair and fully intended to fuck this other man, until you discovered his "unhappy marriage" shtick wasn't true, so I don't think you're in a position to put your husband through a guilt trip on this one.

If I were you, I'd give your husband a pass on this one, and not mention your other man. And move on.

That would just be a way for op to end up with whatever STDs "Mrs Dogging" is currently hosting.

While her husband is getting her to TTC another child.

fully intended to fuck this other man, until you discovered his "unhappy marriage" shtick wasn't true

Learn to read. She said she'd never have gone through with it. Both within herself (and the realisation om was a scum bag who was "happy" in his marriage, unlike her).

Her OM could be riddled with STDs for all she knows, and she was gonna fuck him!