Ignorance is no longer bliss

[WhereAreYouKeir]

I'm pretty confused about what is the best thing to do next and I'd like the sanity of strangers to help give my head a wobble.
DH started to withdraw from family life 17 months ago, it was very gradual and I guess I didn't see how bad it was until this Christmas.
Our boys are 7.5 and 5.5. DH is constantly irritated by the children and me.

To the extent the 7 year old says he's just mean or try to be extra quiet, (no bothering him in the morning).

There's no family time together, he actively avoids us. Hours at the gym, hours on his phone or doing some work project that is not needed (and doesn't warrant extra pay/time off/ recognition.) Basically avoiding us for hours.
He doesn't eat with us but will come in mid-meal and have toast leaving the boys to ask why isn't dad eating with us.

DH teaches in a primary school and has refused to look after the boys outside of term time. Just blank refused. He's doing things I'd expect someone to be doing who has no family commitments. London concerts, hours at the gym, hours on his phone. The bloody phone.

I'm the breadwinner and there's no bloody respite.
Work, children, housework, school admin.

Every time I bring something up, he says he wants to leave, says I'm a nightmare and don't make ANYONE happy. He shouts, raises his voice, slams doors, slams plates around, and of course, we all shut up.

He can go days without speaking to me at all.
I've tried to get him help for several months now. He has refused therapy and the GP. I've tried to get him to go to the GP for something else . His parents say they don't want to get involved. They tell me that I need therapy, I must have upset him.

His friends don't see the behaviour. He is super charming, affable, smooth with everyone else very nice. Helps the neighbours . And yet participates in absolutely nothing at home. No chores, no admin, nothing school related.
The boys and me see a very different side to everyone else.

He's ignored me now since Saturday because I pulled him up on shouting at the kids at bedtime. I'm still being cheerful with our boys but I'm ignoring his sulking for now.

Do I give him a deadline for seeing the GP or therapy? Every time I go out with the boys, I see parents working as a team to manage their kids and I get angry, with myself for not being able to change this shitshow that my kids are seeing.

I really want to see you giving him an ultimatum: either he engages in family life and your marriage again, or he leaves. I’m curious to know his reaction to that. Because he keeps threatening to leave but doesn’t: why not?? You mentioned he then wanted you to leave instead- did you ask him why?

What has he given by way of explanation for his behaviour? Is it him who’s claiming depression?
How did this start? Did he previously make any complaints?

I know at the end of the day it won’t make a difference: he’s treating you badly so he needs to leave. But it might help you prepare for dealing with him in that process. There’s more to this story. And this has been going on for a year and a half?…What has he said when challenged? How have you managed to resist checking his phone? - I’m not saying that’s right, but I would have.

There’s more to this story.
But definitely tell him to leave.

OP please listen to the great advice on this thread and protect your boys. I nearly cried reading what their life is like. Their Dad should be treasuring them, teaching and playing with them, loving them..not shouting at them and ignoring them. You can choose this life for yourself but they have no choice. For their sakes, get this toxic man out of their lives. Good luck.

Your situation sounds awful OP. I am really sorry that you and your DC are going through this.

I find it particularly depressing that he is a teacher yet doesn't want to be involved in his own DC's lives.

You can't control him so you need to protect yourself and your family. If he isn't willing to change and be actively involved in the family unit, he needs to leave.

Please get in touch with Women's Aid and ask recommendations for good solicitors.

No deadlines. You leave. This is awful and your children are being damaged by this arsehole. He is a deadweight and you will be much better off without him.

Whaaaat? Throw this fucker out. What a cunt.

If the OP offers him an ultimatum,or to talk about it things you can guarantee he will place all the blame on her/the children. “YOU need to do this/YOU have to change,the boys need to do XYZ”.

Hes abusive and possibly a narcissist. Counselling won’t help.

@Captainfairylights further up the thread had it right - this man is stealing your life, your one and only precious life. Being furious about this would be a very reasonable response! Get angry, he is completely taking the piss.

@WhereAreYouKeir I have been in this situation. I had 2 years of my husband running me down. Being unhelpful around as a Dad and unsupportive in every aspect.

He said he wanted to leave so many times.

There was another woman, just a friend who was attentive and understanding who gave him the chance to listen.

He now in hindsight says he was depressed and felt unheard in the family.

I'm now looking after 2 very traumatised teens after the whole experience. They don't think of their Dad with any warmth and respect.

Please don't be me! Get him to pack and go and get on with his life so you can have peace in yours

This^^
When my dh had depression he stopped running, which he had always loved.
I knew he was getting better when he started running again.

Therapy?! Depression? He's not depressed. He's just a cunt.

Go see a solicitor and get him out the house. Tell him you are divorcing him.

Is he a teacher in a primary school? Am I the only one who would hate him being my child's teacher ?
I hope you find a solution, it sounds like a very stressful home life. Especially for your poor children

Exactly this op.

What a hard time you are having WhereAreYouKeir. Trying to put on a good face for your children, doing all the childcare, living on eggshells, and then on top of all this, the bereavements and your parent's illness. You worry about your husband and wonder whether he is depressed. What is he doing to support you?

The thing that struck me about your posts was that he refuses to do any child care but then suggests that you leave the children with him. A man who can't even share a mealtime with them, let alone cook it. I also noted that you said his parents think you have 'upset him'. I wonder if he has behaved similarly to them in the past. Whatever the reason, it's clear that they are not going to help you or their grandchildren.

Being a lone parent is hard but it is infinitely better than living with someone who, for whatever reason, is treating you and your children so badly.

Girl! He’s not depressed! He’s functioning well at work and very very well with his friendships. He’s going to the gym and getting all of his feel good endorphins and making and keeping social connections. At what point will you realise your relationship is abusive? He yells at your young children, is abusive towards you and withholds emotional and physical support from your entire family.

He’s not depressed - he’s checked out. This is the script of when a guy wants to leave!!

You earn more than him. So kick him out! You’re probably smarter than him as well so do it in a way that protects you. You’re smart, you’re a good mum. You’re already doing everything - so just get out!!

Posters on here are always very quick to jump straight to “oh he’s definitely having an affair” and I very rarely agree that it’s the most obvious answer. In your case however, it really is.

I imagine the OW is probably married too and he’s waiting for her to sort her life out before he makes his move. Call his bluff next time he tells you he’s leaving, and offer to help him pack!

Fuck me let him leave. He’s contributing nothing. He doesn’t need therapy, he’s just a cunt. And that is not a word I use but it’s warranted here!

You sound a lot like me. The main breadwinner, also in charge of the childcare, bills, running and household and the mental workload. The feeling of having something going wrong that you need someone else to help fix, is a helpless one that’s very uncomfortable, when all your other roles require you to be in control, make decisions and take actions to maintain the status quo. If this was a work colleague, there would be a formal process to follow, ending in the termination of their employment if they didn’t make the necessary changes, followed by the recruitment of someone new. If only marriage were that simple and emotion-free.

Your husband currently has the power in the family. Regardless of the reasons why, he is doing what he wants, when he wants and if anyone challenges him, he threatens to break up the family and marriage to silence you all. Even if he’s not very happy, it’s a situation that is working for him. One that he created. And is in control of. He tells you it’s your fault, to avoid being challenge and justify his behaviour. You know all of this, but have no idea how to solve this.

To my thinking, while you can’t fix the problem in the way that you would like (your husband turning back into a loving, loyal, involved member of the family), you can still get some of the power and control you need back to resolve this situation, whether it leads to your husband wanting to fix things, or whether it leads to him leaving and you and the children find a new normal.

Rather than wait for the next blow up, take some time (like a mental health sick day, if paid) and consider what life would look like without him in the household. Can you cover the bills, how would you cover childcare, how much maintenance would your husband owe, how can you and the children fill the gap he leaves (social life for you, reassurance and support for the children).

Once you have a plan, sit him down, away from the children and tell him that this situation cannot continue. List factual things that he is doing, like you have here as proof points. Tell him that while you may not be completely blameless, he cannot play the victim card and suggest you’re the one at fault, without refusing to discuss and work on the problem. That’s gaslighting and unacceptable. Then tell him that you agree with him, that it would be best if he left the household, as it’s the only way to move on from this. That you and the children love him and want him to be happy, but he cannot continue to live like this at the expense of his wife and children’s happiness.

Let him say whatever he needs to say, but stand firm. The calmer and less emotional you can be, the better. Let him sleep on it, but pick the conversation back up within the next couple of days, so that he knows you’re serious. Make it clear that he cannot be slightly nicer for a couple of days, then revert back. If he wants to leave, he needs to make it happen. If he wants to stay, he needs to start explaining what is going on and get any help he needs.

Follow through and stand firm, otherwise he will continue to walk all over you. Good luck and sorry that you’re going through this.

Agree with every word of this. There's someone in the background skipping off to concerts with him while you care for his increasingly upset children. The fact his behaviour is impacting your sons so badly and emotionally damaging them is surely the only reason you need to end the marriage?

So sorry you are having a difficult time. It is never going to work is it, surely you don’t want your kids to live in an atmosphere. I have seen this situation play out before and every time there has been another woman involved. Sad but true. Pack his bags.

Lols! Classic Mumsnet post!

Please, please lovely internet stranger - get your children out of this situation immediately. I speak from experience here, not as a wife but as a child who was raised in a house exactly like you are describing and to be blunt - it ruined my life and I fantasise what would have been different had I not grown up in toxic silence.

My father would work until 4, then gym, come home and actively look for something to complain about and then sit at the other end of the room with headphones on or go upstairs and shut the door and watch films. He completely checked out from family life and made us all feel like a massive burden even though we were damn near perfect kids and my mother was the main breadwinner and kept an immaculate home. We all felt unworthy, unloved and a hindrance. We all suffer with anxiety problems now. He eventually had an affair and that was the straw that broke the camels back but I wish my mother could have been stronger in the 80s instead of letting it drag out another twenty years.

It has shaped all my relationships, my mother is a huge people pleaser and has massive self esteem issues, my brother just can't have romantic relationships as his example and blueprint of family life was so skewed. I had a serious of abusive relationships. I wish someone had pushed my mother to get out when we were kids and saved us the damage. This IS damaging your kids. Please, please make steps to leave today.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation but you have to get your children out of this awful environment.

🌸

What concerns me is your response to the observations of others and the very good advice you have received. Your children are being abused on a regular basis which you seem reluctant to fully acknowledge or indeed it seems neither are you prepared to take positive action to protect them. Every day you allow him to treat both yourself and your children in such a horrible way you are harming them more. Take action today if not for yourself for your children.

How horrible that the children stayed up to see him after the gym and he ignored them. I wouldnt care if he might get better, what damage is he doing now?