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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Ignorance is no longer bliss

541 replies

WhereAreYouKeir · 11/01/2023 21:29

I'm pretty confused about what is the best thing to do next and I'd like the sanity of strangers to help give my head a wobble.
DH started to withdraw from family life 17 months ago, it was very gradual and I guess I didn't see how bad it was until this Christmas.
Our boys are 7.5 and 5.5. DH is constantly irritated by the children and me.

To the extent the 7 year old says he's just mean or try to be extra quiet, (no bothering him in the morning).

There's no family time together, he actively avoids us. Hours at the gym, hours on his phone or doing some work project that is not needed (and doesn't warrant extra pay/time off/ recognition.) Basically avoiding us for hours.
He doesn't eat with us but will come in mid-meal and have toast leaving the boys to ask why isn't dad eating with us.

DH teaches in a primary school and has refused to look after the boys outside of term time. Just blank refused. He's doing things I'd expect someone to be doing who has no family commitments. London concerts, hours at the gym, hours on his phone. The bloody phone.

I'm the breadwinner and there's no bloody respite.
Work, children, housework, school admin.

Every time I bring something up, he says he wants to leave, says I'm a nightmare and don't make ANYONE happy. He shouts, raises his voice, slams doors, slams plates around, and of course, we all shut up.

He can go days without speaking to me at all.
I've tried to get him help for several months now. He has refused therapy and the GP. I've tried to get him to go to the GP for something else . His parents say they don't want to get involved. They tell me that I need therapy, I must have upset him.

His friends don't see the behaviour. He is super charming, affable, smooth with everyone else very nice. Helps the neighbours . And yet participates in absolutely nothing at home. No chores, no admin, nothing school related.
The boys and me see a very different side to everyone else.

He's ignored me now since Saturday because I pulled him up on shouting at the kids at bedtime. I'm still being cheerful with our boys but I'm ignoring his sulking for now.

Do I give him a deadline for seeing the GP or therapy? Every time I go out with the boys, I see parents working as a team to manage their kids and I get angry, with myself for not being able to change this shitshow that my kids are seeing.

OP posts:
Newlifestartingatlast · 12/01/2023 13:29

TuneInThisTimeNextWeek · 11/01/2023 21:38

If you’re the breadwinner, I think you should ask/tell him to leave. Your children learn about how to have relationships from their parents … I’d get rid of him, and get therapy for your kids.

This. Without wishing to scaremonger, OP, your children will soon start to learn how to treat you from their father - particularly your sons. Once they get to teenagers they are pushing boundaries far harder as they become more independent and believe they don’t need parenting. If at that age you are trying to discipline them, they’re rebellion against that will manifest itself in same way as they learnt - they’ll mirror their father.
split up now. Remove yourself and them from this coercive control. He has checked out of the relationship long ago, and is using you as a bank roll and domestic servant . Don’t let that continue
it is hard- look on line at ADVISE NOW guides (link in MNchat room on divorce) 0; divorcing, fincancial settlements etc. start to think about your future without him seriously. Start to investigate how you will live,where, how much money you’d have, how you’d want to split custody etc. The more you can visualise your future and kids future without him, the more the unknown and fear disappears and leaving becomes an option that you can manage to do.

Justgorgeous · 12/01/2023 13:29

I would say he has met someone else and has checked out of your family unit.

Bumblebee412 · 12/01/2023 13:35

5moments · 12/01/2023 07:28

Therapy?! Depression? He's not depressed. He's just a cunt.

Go see a solicitor and get him out the house. Tell him you are divorcing him.

I died a little at. 'He's not depressed. He's just a cunt'

euff · 12/01/2023 13:35

Given what you've said about how he treats your children the only reason he could want you to be the one to leave him in the house with the children is to keep the house and potentially have you pay for his lifestyle. He is horrible to the kids, please leave him and make sure you don't give him anything he's not entitled to. Having a Disney dad who sees them and takes them out and probably makes a display of it will probably be better than them treading on eggshells around him. Had that with my dad growing up. Dad was great with everyone else but wanted children who could be paraded out and put away again and then just ignored as he felt our mother hadn't done a good enough job with us to parade us out. He couldn't be proud of being seen with us.

KettrickenSmiled · 12/01/2023 13:36

WhereAreYouKeir · 12/01/2023 12:57

@JudgeJ You are right, we both bring in household income. I supported DH through his teacher training, practically and financially.
It is only my income that is used for household and family expenses. DH uses his salary on himself and his car. I realise that this is now to my disadvantage and he may well pursue me for financial support.

He can't pursue you for financial support.
Your DC need to either stay in the marital home, or have a new home provided for them if the asset split demands that it be sold.

He is neither willing nor capable of providing majority childcare, & if you have been documenting his behaviour, will not have a hope of arguing for it. Any court will see that a teacher who refuses to look after his own DC in the school holidays, who does zero childcare now, who has no knowledge of how current childcare is organised, who will not help his own child's reading skills so that a third party tutor is required, & who is equally neglectful of & abusive to his DC is NOT a suitable candidate for residential parent status.

Therefore the residential parent is you, & he needs no financial support.
The fact that he's never paid toward the mortgage & household bills will work in YOR favour, not his. Because he has selfishly chosen to keep all of his income for himself, & not pay a penny toward his kids. Yet more evidence of neglect. He is not a fit parent, & you have everything you need to evidence this fact.

Keep your head down, & avoid his gaslighting parents.
Do not signal anything to do with your solicitor's appointment or your plans.
Gather all the evidence you need, & keep it factual with the solicitor - a good one is going to be expensive, do not waste that billing time on emotional matters.

I'm also concerned about the reaction of your friends. Any decent friend wouldn't "look uncomfortable" & make you feel like you have to keep your sorrows to yourself. Who do you have in real life that you can totally trust, & rely on? If you cannot think of somebody it's likely because you don't even, as you say, have time to keep up with current affairs, let alone solid friendships. If this is the case, I'd like to urge you to get back into some form of counselling. Make time for it - you need somebody you can trust to be 100% on Team You in real life.

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/01/2023 13:38

KettrickenSmiled · 12/01/2023 09:35

He can go days without speaking to me at all.
I've tried to get him help for several months now. He has refused therapy and the GP. I've tried to get him to go to the GP for something else . His parents say they don't want to get involved. They tell me that I need therapy, I must have upset him.
Forget all this talk of therapy.
You are hoping there is a magic formula to bring your H to his senses & stop being a mean bastard to you & the boys while presenting a sunny face to everybody else.
His parents are weaponising therapy as an excuse for not addressing the fact that their son is a mean bastard at home by pretending that the problem lies with you.
Your marriage doesn't need therapy - it needs the divorce it is screaming for.

Do I give him a deadline for seeing the GP or therapy? Every time I go out with the boys, I see parents working as a team to manage their kids and I get angry, with myself for not being able to change this shitshow that my kids are seeing.
No.
See above - you can't 'therapise' this mean streak out of him.
You need to write him off completely. he is FOUL to your little boys. Imagine what it is doing to their self-esteem & security. Home should be their safe refuge, but it's the place where daddy is a mean bastard to them. Whenre he daily demonstrates to them that he finds them worthless, irritating, & not worth his time.
Forget about your H & give your boys what they need - a home without a mean bastard in it.

I refuse to leave the home and leave the boys with him (which has asked me to do).
He is going to use your role as main breadwinner to try to set himself up as SAHP so he can leech off you while continuing to abuse your children. With you almost completely out of the picture.
Come on OP. You KNOW what you need to do. Brace yourself & protect your boys.
Hire the finest rottweiler of a lawyer you can afford. Sic them on this abusive & neglectful parent, & pay him off if you need to. Depending on your finances, that may entail selling the family home. Tough. Your boys would rather live in a 2 bed highrise flat than a luxurious marital home where their father keeps telling them how much they annoy him, & alternately neglects & abuses them.
Stop thinking about how to keep him in your life & SACK THE MEAN BASTARD WHO HURTS YOUR CHILDREN.

I am sorry for everything you are going through. His false face to the world & his parents' collusion are spectacularly galling & frustrating for you to manage. But you need to stop trying to fix the shitshow & start flushing its cause. Than man is actively denigrating your boys. If anybody needs therapy here it is them. Ignore his parents, ignore H as much as you can, stop passively hoping for a magic fix & save your boys from this disgrace of a man.
Once you make your mind up & start taking control you will feel better.
Once you have a clear financial & legal pathway c/o your divorce lawyer you will feel a sense of purpose.
Once you are shot of this appalling man you will be so relived, so free, & so much more able to cope & feel happy again.
AND SO WILL YOUR BOYS.
Flowers

Excellent post.

Tamarindtree · 12/01/2023 13:40

Wishing you all the best op, getting legal
advice is the first step foe your and your children on your road to freedom and happiness without that albatross around your neck bringing you and your children down.

ClawedButler · 12/01/2023 13:44

I think "Sack the mean bastard who hurts your children" is one of the finest things I have read in ages.

It boils down to that. Keep that in your head when navigating all the legal and emotional stuff. It will keep your direction and motive clear to you.

2bazookas · 12/01/2023 14:04

OP said Parents think he is amazing with their kids. He can't do enough for his pupils. Esp the high achievers, loads of praise and name dropping them at home.

Did "parents" tell you that? Or him? Isn't that another example of his gaslighting you with his vain and imaginary superior prestige?

In a small school, where he teaches AND your boys are pupils, many pupil families must have a clear view of your and your kids domestic life and DH's behaviour in it. I would be bloody amazed if he truly sustains a local reputation as "amazing with kids".

There is more going on than you know. You need to know all for your kids sake; and to pass to your lawyer.

Do you know some of his work colleagues?. In your shoes I would approach from an angle of " All is not well with DH , whatever ails him is becoming a problem at home with the kids; I'm wondering if you have any insight of what's going on at work for him? "

Yeahrightthen · 12/01/2023 14:08

WhereAreYouKeir · 12/01/2023 12:57

@JudgeJ You are right, we both bring in household income. I supported DH through his teacher training, practically and financially.
It is only my income that is used for household and family expenses. DH uses his salary on himself and his car. I realise that this is now to my disadvantage and he may well pursue me for financial support.

Bloody hell - it gets even worse!

What exactly does he bring to the table OP? How does he make your life better? From what you have posted it is all extremely negative.

Please make sure you go to that appointment tomorrow- it’s often taking the first step that’s the hardest - even just talking through the practicalities with someone will help get you in the mindset you need to be in. You’re going to have to be strong for your DS’s 💪- but I have no doubt you can do it - you sound very intelligent and switched on. Find your anger now to help propel you through what is going to be tricky tImes x

Yeahrightthen · 12/01/2023 14:14

JudgeJ · 12/01/2023 12:53

If her DH works in a Primary school then she's not the only bread winner, is she?

Show quote history

Why are you focusing on these ridiculous semantics?

Who gives a fuck who’s the breadwinner - it’s irrelevant- her dh is an abusive twat to OP and her children and needs kicking to the kerb.

Do you think because he works too this knobhead deserves some recognition or something? “Breadwinner” is used to describe the person who brings in the most money, as OP has already said - that’s her.

As well as doing all the childcare, housework and actually living/caring for her dcs. This is a woman in an awful, abusive situation who people in here are trying to help. So eff off if you have nothing helpful to add.

SuperFly123 · 12/01/2023 14:22

KettrickenSmiled · 12/01/2023 13:36

He can't pursue you for financial support.
Your DC need to either stay in the marital home, or have a new home provided for them if the asset split demands that it be sold.

He is neither willing nor capable of providing majority childcare, & if you have been documenting his behaviour, will not have a hope of arguing for it. Any court will see that a teacher who refuses to look after his own DC in the school holidays, who does zero childcare now, who has no knowledge of how current childcare is organised, who will not help his own child's reading skills so that a third party tutor is required, & who is equally neglectful of & abusive to his DC is NOT a suitable candidate for residential parent status.

Therefore the residential parent is you, & he needs no financial support.
The fact that he's never paid toward the mortgage & household bills will work in YOR favour, not his. Because he has selfishly chosen to keep all of his income for himself, & not pay a penny toward his kids. Yet more evidence of neglect. He is not a fit parent, & you have everything you need to evidence this fact.

Keep your head down, & avoid his gaslighting parents.
Do not signal anything to do with your solicitor's appointment or your plans.
Gather all the evidence you need, & keep it factual with the solicitor - a good one is going to be expensive, do not waste that billing time on emotional matters.

I'm also concerned about the reaction of your friends. Any decent friend wouldn't "look uncomfortable" & make you feel like you have to keep your sorrows to yourself. Who do you have in real life that you can totally trust, & rely on? If you cannot think of somebody it's likely because you don't even, as you say, have time to keep up with current affairs, let alone solid friendships. If this is the case, I'd like to urge you to get back into some form of counselling. Make time for it - you need somebody you can trust to be 100% on Team You in real life.

Show quote history

☝️Some great advice here. I was also concerned about your ‘friends’ responses. Hope you have someone you can really trust and confide in and seeking out a therapist where you can regularly offload and vent will be especially useful at a time like this.

AcrossthePond55 · 12/01/2023 14:30

WhereAreYouKeir · 12/01/2023 12:57

@JudgeJ You are right, we both bring in household income. I supported DH through his teacher training, practically and financially.
It is only my income that is used for household and family expenses. DH uses his salary on himself and his car. I realise that this is now to my disadvantage and he may well pursue me for financial support.

As much as it may pain you to pay him, sometimes 'buying freedom' is just worth it.

Speak to the solicitor, show them the basic figures of your/his income and your/his expenditures, as well as the hours each of you work. Be sure to stress that his money goes to 'personals' and that (I assume) he does make enough to house himself if he were required to do so.

Remember, do ALL of this on the QT. He doesn't need to know what you're doing until you've taken the actions the solicitor tells you to take and it's time to 'make the moves'. Unfortunately, don't expect your (hopefully) STBX to go quietly. He's got it damned good and cushy, he's not going to want to have to start acting like an adult.

You may want to consider counseling for yourself when this all kicks off. 'Crisis counseling' is aimed at getting someone through a difficult period in their life, focusing on the immediate situation and working out tips and tricks to handle your 'opponent', recognize their manipulations, and keep your 'sanity' throughout a difficult situation.

LanaDelBoy · 12/01/2023 14:35

An affair seems possible. He is daring you to make him leave so he can blame it on you.

Otherwise, are you familiar with this long-running thread about sulky husband who put on a dazzling display to everyone else?
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking

TiredyMcTired · 12/01/2023 14:38

WhereAreYouKeir · 12/01/2023 12:57

@JudgeJ You are right, we both bring in household income. I supported DH through his teacher training, practically and financially.
It is only my income that is used for household and family expenses. DH uses his salary on himself and his car. I realise that this is now to my disadvantage and he may well pursue me for financial support.

Wow. With each of your updates he just sounds worse. So he contributes absolutely NOTHING to your family or household. Goodness me, he’s a waste of space isn’t he?
I am so glad you are seeing a solicitor tomorrow!

BunchHarman · 12/01/2023 14:50

It is only my income that is used for household and family expenses. DH uses his salary on himself and his car.

Everything about your husband sounds vile. I wish you happiness away from the lazy, selfish twat. The very worst part is how awful he is to his own children.

XmasElf10 · 12/01/2023 14:57

It’s very unlikely that he’ll be granted spousal support (I mean vanishingly unlikely!). He has a job! Spousal support is rarely granted anymore and tends to be time limited and for spouses with no income (or where the disparity is HUGE). The intention is generally for the ex getting the spousal support to go get s job and earn their own money so support can stop!
I divorced a non-earning H 4 years back and I was worried about support but the solicitor was very clear on this.

Daleksatemyshed · 12/01/2023 15:33

My God, what an arse he is! Every time you post Op he just gets worse.
I think it would be in your interests to try and consider every angle because once he's asked to leave he'll be really bad, his fragile ego will take a bashing and he can't cope with that_look at his hissy fit over you refusing to listen to him talk about himself for hours.
If he is having an affair he might try to get you out then move her in as his childcare, that way he keeps everything and you get to go on paying for him. Obviously you won't let that happen but I think you need to be prepared for how low he may go.
Tell the solictor everything and get all your paperwork somewhere safe, tell him nothing until you're ready. You're clearly a very good woman and I'm sure you'll do great

SillySausage81 · 12/01/2023 15:36

Oh my word, so he doesn't even contribute financially??!!

Absolutely get rid. You'll be so much happier.

euff · 12/01/2023 15:44

Do his parents know what a fine man they raised? That he uses none of his income to put a roof over their gc's heads or food in their mouths or that he tells his dc's they do his head in when they've been waiting for him to come home and spend time with them? What has he been spinning to them I wonder. He will make things bad for you when you are done taking it but remember there will be an end in sight and it will be better.

CaveMum · 12/01/2023 15:45

You’ll probably find yourself financially better off with him gone, you won’t have him eating the food you’ve bought, or the utilities he has used. Plus if you have the children he will need to pay maintenance for them.

ghostyslovesheets · 12/01/2023 15:50

I think he doesn't want to be seen to be walking out on his family and be the 'bad guy

This was my ex. He made my life HELL for 6 months tying to get me to kick him out - Like an arse I tried everything - Relate, date nights etc - he was cruel, dismissive, absent from home for any excuse - he left eventually - for his mistress

He now tells everyone I was abusive and forced him to see comfort elsewhere and leave

Get your shit sorted and kick him out - good luck OP

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 12/01/2023 15:57

With each post, he sounds worse, it's not just his financial selfishness, after being supported to retrain, he should be contributing some of his salary, not keeping it all for himself and his car!
It's one thing to decide to leave a spousal relationship but he seems to be actively leaving a parenting one too.

But EVEN worse, for a primary teacher to be praising the "high Achievers" and name dropping when he can't even spend time on his own poor little 7 year old's reading. When I read that "The boys stayed up to see him when he got back and he ignored them saying they were doing his head in." - he just sounds cruel. Add to that refusing to look after them during school holidays (what is he doing with his time then?) He is not parenting them at all is he?

Sorry that you are going through this. You should very sensible and caring and you should be very proud of your career success, not having to play it down for fear of upsetting the Egomaniac at home, or interrupting his self congratulatory conversations about how all the parents and kids think he's amazing.
Glad to hear you are taking legal advice.

Also as several other posters have commented. Be careful what you say at school, if he's so well in with everyone there. People can be real gossips and it's better to talk to a trustworthy professional until you are sure of your next steps.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 12/01/2023 16:16

he says he wants to leave, says I'm a nightmare and don't make ANYONE happy. He shouts, raises his voice, slams doors, slams plates around, and of course, we all shut up

Pack his bags, leave them on the doorstep and out he goes. He sounds awful. Oh, and change the locks.

Do it now!

SafferUpNorth · 12/01/2023 16:25

OP I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's a story as old as time - I will put my money on it there's another woman.

Good luck with the solicitors appt tomorow. Please do the right thing for your kids and end it now. You can thank your lucky stars you're not financially dependent on him.