Ignorance is no longer bliss

[WhereAreYouKeir]

I'm pretty confused about what is the best thing to do next and I'd like the sanity of strangers to help give my head a wobble.
DH started to withdraw from family life 17 months ago, it was very gradual and I guess I didn't see how bad it was until this Christmas.
Our boys are 7.5 and 5.5. DH is constantly irritated by the children and me.

To the extent the 7 year old says he's just mean or try to be extra quiet, (no bothering him in the morning).

There's no family time together, he actively avoids us. Hours at the gym, hours on his phone or doing some work project that is not needed (and doesn't warrant extra pay/time off/ recognition.) Basically avoiding us for hours.
He doesn't eat with us but will come in mid-meal and have toast leaving the boys to ask why isn't dad eating with us.

DH teaches in a primary school and has refused to look after the boys outside of term time. Just blank refused. He's doing things I'd expect someone to be doing who has no family commitments. London concerts, hours at the gym, hours on his phone. The bloody phone.

I'm the breadwinner and there's no bloody respite.
Work, children, housework, school admin.

Every time I bring something up, he says he wants to leave, says I'm a nightmare and don't make ANYONE happy. He shouts, raises his voice, slams doors, slams plates around, and of course, we all shut up.

He can go days without speaking to me at all.
I've tried to get him help for several months now. He has refused therapy and the GP. I've tried to get him to go to the GP for something else . His parents say they don't want to get involved. They tell me that I need therapy, I must have upset him.

His friends don't see the behaviour. He is super charming, affable, smooth with everyone else very nice. Helps the neighbours . And yet participates in absolutely nothing at home. No chores, no admin, nothing school related.
The boys and me see a very different side to everyone else.

He's ignored me now since Saturday because I pulled him up on shouting at the kids at bedtime. I'm still being cheerful with our boys but I'm ignoring his sulking for now.

Do I give him a deadline for seeing the GP or therapy? Every time I go out with the boys, I see parents working as a team to manage their kids and I get angry, with myself for not being able to change this shitshow that my kids are seeing.

Ignore what I said about him being a better father seeing them once a week. He is abusing them. When you leave only let him see them when you can fully trust he won’t upset them It will take a long time, I’m so sorry op. You don’t deserve this.

let me get this right… you think your husband, who goes out all the time, gym, extra work, evenings out etc. is depressed and with the right help, will save your marriage? Not a chance! This is not what depression looks or sounds like. Sounds like, an awful marriage and family life for the kids.

I’m not really seeing key signs of depression. I am seeing signs of someone who’s totally checked out of a marriage and children and trying to make you end it so he’s not the bad guy.

I don’t know what you think therapy will achieve. It may simply strengthen his resolve rather than make him rethink it.

He can go days without speaking to me at all.
I've tried to get him help for several months now. He has refused therapy and the GP. I've tried to get him to go to the GP for something else . His parents say they don't want to get involved. They tell me that I need therapy, I must have upset him.
Forget all this talk of therapy.
You are hoping there is a magic formula to bring your H to his senses & stop being a mean bastard to you & the boys while presenting a sunny face to everybody else.
His parents are weaponising therapy as an excuse for not addressing the fact that their son is a mean bastard at home by pretending that the problem lies with you.
Your marriage doesn't need therapy - it needs the divorce it is screaming for.

Do I give him a deadline for seeing the GP or therapy? Every time I go out with the boys, I see parents working as a team to manage their kids and I get angry, with myself for not being able to change this shitshow that my kids are seeing.
No.
See above - you can't 'therapise' this mean streak out of him.
You need to write him off completely. he is FOUL to your little boys. Imagine what it is doing to their self-esteem & security. Home should be their safe refuge, but it's the place where daddy is a mean bastard to them. Whenre he daily demonstrates to them that he finds them worthless, irritating, & not worth his time.
Forget about your H & give your boys what they need - a home without a mean bastard in it.

I refuse to leave the home and leave the boys with him (which has asked me to do).
He is going to use your role as main breadwinner to try to set himself up as SAHP so he can leech off you while continuing to abuse your children. With you almost completely out of the picture.
Come on OP. You KNOW what you need to do. Brace yourself & protect your boys.
Hire the finest rottweiler of a lawyer you can afford. Sic them on this abusive & neglectful parent, & pay him off if you need to. Depending on your finances, that may entail selling the family home. Tough. Your boys would rather live in a 2 bed highrise flat than a luxurious marital home where their father keeps telling them how much they annoy him, & alternately neglects & abuses them.
Stop thinking about how to keep him in your life & SACK THE MEAN BASTARD WHO HURTS YOUR CHILDREN.

I am sorry for everything you are going through. His false face to the world & his parents' collusion are spectacularly galling & frustrating for you to manage. But you need to stop trying to fix the shitshow & start flushing its cause. Than man is actively denigrating your boys. If anybody needs therapy here it is them. Ignore his parents, ignore H as much as you can, stop passively hoping for a magic fix & save your boys from this disgrace of a man.
Once you make your mind up & start taking control you will feel better.
Once you have a clear financial & legal pathway c/o your divorce lawyer you will feel a sense of purpose.
Once you are shot of this appalling man you will be so relived, so free, & so much more able to cope & feel happy again.
AND SO WILL YOUR BOYS.

if he says he wants to leave, why doesn't he?

Is it that he can't afford to leave and would rather make your life hell while you pay for his almost-bachelor lifestyle?

Please get some support and tell him you want him to move out. Get a solicitor first.

Did this all start when your parent's illness got worse or got their diagnosis?
Sorry to hear about that, it must be a very stressful time for you.

It sounds like a massive, massive acting out prolonged huff, where he is incandescent with rage which is possibly increased there's no way he can compete for your affection with a parent with a stage 4 illness.

He's got a serious anger issue and it's all directed and projected on you.

You have done nothing wrong.
Whenever he says bad stuff about you say 'it sounds like you think I've done something wrong. I haven't done anything wrong'.
or 'it sounds like you think I should be ashamed about not making you happy. But I'm not responsible for your happiness, you are'.

Ultimately you'll have to decide if you want to stay in this relationship and counselling for yourself might help you with that and what you are going through with your parent being sick.

This blog self help website is a good read and suggests ways of framing statements so that you can respond to him in a way that takes away his power and is supportive of yourself. For example Step Three 'Naming The Deficiency'

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/techniques-stop-emotional-abuse/

This.
You cannot let your poor children live with this awful behaviour. As a teacher he should know the damage he’s doing to them. Selfish. Having an affair?

TheaBrandt
Billy1966
Happyher

The above posters have it spot on , completely agree, wish you and your dc’s well , be strong

My ex was like this and I made excuses for years. I know it's daunting to consider leaving but honestly it was the best thing I did. His behaviour hasn't really changed but I'm grateful the children get space from it now.

My ex was like this and I made excuses for years. I know it's daunting to consider leaving but honestly it was the best thing I did. His behaviour hasn't really changed but I'm grateful the children get space from it now.

My ex was like this and I made excuses for years. I know it's daunting to consider leaving but honestly it was the best thing I did. His behaviour hasn't really changed but I'm grateful the children get space from it now.

Male primary school teachers can get a very deluded sense of themselves. There are not enough of them and are valued for the role models for boys. Subsequently, everything is an easy ride. They get away with doing half the work, not meeting deadlines, messy classrooms etc but are really high profile. Parents etc love them. It’s also a high stress environment so work place affairs are not uncommon. I can see how coming into this later as-well could have made all this even more ego boosting. You do not have to accept this though. You deserve better.

Next time he says he wants to leave, whizz upstairs, throw his bits in his gym bag, have 500 quid ready to give him and say ‘off you fuck then.’ Then get the locks changed. Start divorce proceedings. It’ll be the best day of your life.

I'm glad you got validation from your friend about how H behaves at home.
But - like the therapy notion - forget about 'depression'.
If H is depressed (spoiler- he isn't - depressed folk don't preen themselves in front of mirrors boasting about their trouser size) it is up to HIM to sort that out.

Whether he is depressed or not - HE IS AN ARSEHOLE TO YOUR KIDS.
Millions of people have managed depression without abusing children. There is no excuse. He needs to not live with your children any more. THAT is the only prescription you need for that man.

And KettrickenSmiled

Nailed it

Other woman. Chuck him out.

OP he wants to leave but can’t be bothered doing the work associated. He’s banking on you leaving the house, sorting out your own housing, initiating divorce, dealing with the paperwork and the financial consequences. He probably doesn’t want to be known as the ‘bad guy’ who left.

He’s basically already divorced you in that he’s never home and is abusive when he is home. He’s just having his cake and eating it.

You are worth so much more and so are your lovely boys. How he is treating your children is unforgivable.

This. Why are you putting up with it? he sounds like he doesn't want to be there with you guys but he's putting up with it because you're the breadwinner or because if he leaves it would make him look bad. I don'y know what's the case but he doesn't want to be there. You need to make him a favour and dump him.

Whether or not he is struggling with his mental health is irrelevant because MH is NOT an excuse for this sort of behaviour. So it's time for him to leave.

I haven't got through all the responses, OP, but have read all your posts on this thread.

He is abusive. Read up on emotional abuse. There are some things in what you post that suggest to me he may have strong narcissistic traits, so maybe look up narcissistic abuse. (Dr Ramani on Youtube is very easy to listen to and knows her stuff). The Lundy Bancroft book is also essential reading, and is usually available for free in pdf format somewhere if you Google it.

His threats to leave are just threats. His "suggestion" that you leave the kids with him is designed to make you stay.

Women's Aid or your local Domestic Abuse agency can help you. You could get an Occupation Order which would mean he has to leave the home (they aren't permanent but will ensure that you can stay with the children in the family home in the immediate term).

I would pack a back for him and leave it at the door. Tell him you want him to leave. If you think he has the capacity to become unpleasant and abusive then contact womens aid for advice first. I wouldn’t let this piece of shit remain under my roof for even one more day. If possible have the kids stay with a relative/friend/babysitter so they don’t have to witness any fallout during his exit. Good luck OP.

He’s not depressed, he probably having an affair, he doesn’t love you, he’s pushing you to leave him because he doesn’t want to sound like the bad guy, he wants a ticket out of the relationship. Therapy won’t help as to him the relationship is over, if he loved you he wouldn’t be treating you like crap. Kick him out before your kids are badly effected by his behaviour.

OP, I'm so sorry you and the kids are going through this.

Honestly, I think you need to forget all the stuff about depression or therapy. I'm not an expert but he doesn't sound like he's struggling with his mental health in any real way. He is simply being a shit and not living up to any of his responsibilities, and treating you and his children with callous neglect at best. The fact that he makes the effort to be friendly and lovely with everybody else makes this even more unforgivable in my eyes..... it basically means he can choose how to be, and he is choosing to be a shit with his family, behind closed doors. It's not like he's curled up in a ball weeping, instead of spending time with his kids - he's going to the gym and concerts!

The other reason to forget about deadlines, depression and therapy, is that even if it did get better why would you want him? Even someone who has mental health problems, if they are a deep down kind, high integrity person, they will not treat you with such consistent callousness. They will apologise, take responsibility when they are able, voice appreciation for everything you are doing, ask you to bear with them, try to make up for it in any ways they can.... otherwise it's simply crappy treatment and being a shit! He sounds perfectly in control of his choices. He's just not a nice guy who treats those he loves well. He may have acted nice in the past, but this is not someone you want your and your kids happiness tied to.

I am sorry if this is hard to hear, but you did say you need your head wobbled. Unless there's a huge back story of you doing awful things to him, and that these behaviours of his are only occasional, mitigated by lots of good stuff you haven't mentioned, then you really need to escape. I wish you the best of luck getting free!

OP, I'm so sorry you and the kids are going through this.

Honestly, I think you need to forget all the stuff about depression or therapy. I'm not an expert but he doesn't sound like he's struggling with his mental health in any real way. He is simply being a shit and not living up to any of his responsibilities, and treating you and his children with callous neglect at best. The fact that he makes the effort to be friendly and lovely with everybody else makes this even more unforgivable in my eyes..... it basically means he can choose how to be, and he is choosing to be a shit with his family, behind closed doors. It's not like he's curled up in a ball weeping, instead of spending time with his kids - he's going to the gym and concerts!

The other reason to forget about deadlines, depression and therapy, is that even if it did get better why would you want him? Even someone who has mental health problems, if they are a deep down kind, high integrity person, they will not treat you with such consistent callousness. They will apologise, take responsibility when they are able, voice appreciation for everything you are doing, ask you to bear with them, try to make up for it in any ways they can.... otherwise it's simply crappy treatment and being a shit! He sounds perfectly in control of his choices. He's just not a nice guy who treats those he loves well. He may have acted nice in the past, but this is not someone you want your and your kids happiness tied to.

I am sorry if this is hard to hear, but you did say you need your head wobbled. Unless there's a huge back story of you doing awful things to him, and that these behaviours of his are only occasional, mitigated by lots of good stuff you haven't mentioned, then you really need to escape. I wish you the best of luck getting free!

Yeah to put it bluntly LTB.

He sounds like he's making you miserable then gaslighting you about it and not being a great father and husband. Remove your kids from this awful situation. Let him preen in the mirror on his own.

If his ego is so reinforced by outside perceptions, imagine what a big fat divorce will do for him.