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Original poster

Spouse visa renewal / separation

163 replies

AutumnEnglishRose · 10/01/2023 21:35

Dear all,

I'm in a tricky situation with my husband and don't know where to turn for advice.

I'm British, he's not. We were together 17 years, married for 5. We have a little boy aged 6.

We were living in his country when our son was born, then we decided to move to the UK to be nearer my family. My husband applied for and was granted a spouse visa. This is a 5 year route to get permanent residency (Indefinite Leave to Remain or ILR) in the UK.

At first all was ok, but our relationship got increasingly difficult. We renewed his visa 2.5 years ago and it was granted again. Meanwhile our relationship went from bad to worse.

In March 2022, I couldn't take it anymore and asked to separate. He moved out of our home and I remained there with our son. He stayed in regular contact with our son and has done ever since.

At the time we separated, my husband was very worried about the impact on his visa, as he was here on a spouse visa based on our relationship.

At the time, I told him not to worry as I was sure we could just renew the visa - we had been together 16 years and had a child, it had been a genuine relationship all that time, but had sadly ended. Also, we had no plans to divorce yet, just live apart for a while and see how we feel. We decided to keep his post coming to my address and remain registered here for his work, etc.

Nine months later, he needs to renew his visa and I don't think I can sign the spouse declaration. Having read this, it says that "I confirm that we are living together in a relationship like marriage and intend to continue doing so" which is of course, not true. My husband is renting a room with a landlord nearby. We did recently have a family holiday with our son, to visit his native country, however this was platonic.

I'm very scared about the situation - we both work full time, and I am scared that if we apply to renew his visa, then get found out, we could face criminal consequences.

I have tried to have this conversation with him, and I have apologised for saying in the beginning that it would all be fine, as I was not thinking straight in the throes of a painful separation. I have told him that I want to help him given that he is my son's father, but I cannot sign something that could put me at risk of losing my job, or worse.

I have asked him to apply instead for the "parent of a British child" visa, which he is clearly entitled to, as our son is British and settled here. I have offered to support him gathering the evidence for this, which is basically our son's passport and a letter from his school confirming that his dad is involved in his life. This would be easy to obtain.

However, my husband says he is not prepared to do this, as applying for the "parent visa" means re-starting the 5 year clock before he can get permanent UK residency, which he had expected to get this year, 2023, through his current spouse visa route. He said that he wants to continue living and working here to be near our son, but if I refuse to sign the spouse declaration, he feels he will be left with no choice but to leave the UK and return to his country (which is very far away).

This course of action would be devastating for our 6 year old son who has a close, loving relationship with his dad, and who had adjusted well to our separation largely (in my view) because he has remained in close contact with his dad. Losing his dad to move to the other side of the world now, would be devastating. Also, it would be very hard for me to parent him totally alone, as I work long hours, and also depend on the child maintenance support my husband provides.

I have tried saying all this to my husband and implored him to see sense and apply for the Parent Visa, with my support. But he remains firm in his stance that I must sign the document or he will leave. He has also alluded to removing financial support, not having anything more to do with me/our son, etc. He currently provides a decent level of child maintenance support to me, without which I could not afford to continue paying the mortgage on our (small) home and providing for our son.

I am considering signing the document because the alternative - my son losing his father, and financial difficulties - seems even worse right now than the risk of getting into trouble.

Can anyone give any advice? I cannot afford to speak to an immigration lawyer by myself (again, I have suggested this to my husband and offered to pay halves for a consultation but he refused).
I'm desperate to do the right thing for my child, and feel lost.

Thank you

OP posts:
LearnerCook · 11/01/2023 23:45

If you've already informed your employer that you're separated, this will be on a government system somewhere. You'd have to be crazy to then lie on another government form, especially when it comes to security clearance!

Increasingly, the various government departments' computers are interfacing with each other, eg Student Loans and HMRC for parental income checks. The consequences for you both being found out are awful and could affect you if you had to apply for other jobs in future; don't do it.

He is using your son to push you into something illegal; what kind of parent does that?

HamBone · 12/01/2023 20:45

I don’t think either of them have handled this well. In her first post, the OP said that,

“At the time we separated, my husband was very worried about the impact on his visa, as he was here on a spouse visa based on our relationship.

At the time, I told him not to worry as I was sure we could just renew the visa…”

Why didn’t either of them go online and read the form/form instructions? You can’t give reassurances like that when actually have no idea what you’ll be required to sign!

Onnabugeisha · 12/01/2023 22:09

HamBone · 12/01/2023 20:45

I don’t think either of them have handled this well. In her first post, the OP said that,

“At the time we separated, my husband was very worried about the impact on his visa, as he was here on a spouse visa based on our relationship.

At the time, I told him not to worry as I was sure we could just renew the visa…”

Why didn’t either of them go online and read the form/form instructions? You can’t give reassurances like that when actually have no idea what you’ll be required to sign!

I agree, and the OP reassuring her DH was telling him about how her country’s visa process works. She’s more likely to know the ins and outs than her immigrant DH. So he probably trusted that she knew what she was talking about, and just went along with her advice. It’s such a sad situation.

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/01/2023 01:59

She’s more likely to know the ins and outs than her immigrant DH.

Really? Every immigrant I know knows more than every native person I know. He should have done his homework. Actually, forget that, he shouldn't have been coercive and controlling and emotionally abusive and they would still be living together.

OP you don't give someone holding a gun ammunition. You say he is currently blackmailing you. And you are thinking about committing a criminal act, which endangers your job and you generally. And handing him that information. Nope nope nope.

HamBone · 13/01/2023 04:08

@MrsTerryPratchett That's the part I can't understand, as it sounds like neither of them actually looked at renewal forms or instructions when they separated. They just decided that it would be fine, despite the fact that his visa is dependent on being her spouse.

I'm a little sceptical, tbh.

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/01/2023 04:18

HamBone · 13/01/2023 04:08

@MrsTerryPratchett That's the part I can't understand, as it sounds like neither of them actually looked at renewal forms or instructions when they separated. They just decided that it would be fine, despite the fact that his visa is dependent on being her spouse.

I'm a little sceptical, tbh.

I've known a couple of people on spouse visas and they always know about what splitting up means.

HamBone · 13/01/2023 04:24

@MrsTerryPratchett Exactly, that's why I'm sceptical! The OP told her workplace that they were separated, basically ensuring that she wouldn't be able to sign the form. I don't think she ever intended to.

Devakai · 13/01/2023 04:45

Just have him move back in before you sign the form and ignore each other as much as humanly possible. It will be hell on earth getting a parent of child visa when you're so entangled still and resetting the clock makes no sense. If you're all miserable for a few months so be it it would be worth it. Then you don't have to lie to anyone work or on the form.

Butterfly44 · 13/01/2023 05:13

Is he on your mortgage? He could actually move back in. You're not divorced, still married? We're in 2023 already.
I'm not surprised his stance on this. He moved here for you, has work, good father by your accounts, pays maintenance, moved out when you asked. You don't seem to mind so much if he's not around and has to leave the UK (work stance takes second place). You've made up your mind not to sign so good luck with it all.

ittakes2 · 13/01/2023 05:27

I have a permanent residency after an indefinite leave to remain visa. I've lived in the UK for almost 25 years and my hubby is english except I never applied for a spouse visa.
If he intends to live in he Uk for the rest of the time your son is growing up - then I can't see the issue with the parent visa. Yes its reassuring to have residency but I can't see any downsides of just staying in this new visa for 5 years.
My question is is he intending to head home and has been waiting to get permanent residency for flexibility.
You advised him wrong yes, but he is an adult and could check for himself.

Kabalagala · 13/01/2023 05:51

Honestly 17 years together and you've had enough 9 months before ILR? Really? Sounds to me like OP knows exactly how much power she has over his current circumstances.
Anyone who doesn't have experience of current migration systems really doesn't need an opinion.
It's shit that you've broken up, but anyone with half a brain knows it's not as simple as "just apply for a parent visa". Especially when, at your advise, he kept any evidence he would provide geared towards a spouse visa.
You don't have to sign anything but don't be naive over the power you have or the what the consequences might be.

ittakes2 · 13/01/2023 06:39

Kabalagala · 13/01/2023 05:51

Honestly 17 years together and you've had enough 9 months before ILR? Really? Sounds to me like OP knows exactly how much power she has over his current circumstances.
Anyone who doesn't have experience of current migration systems really doesn't need an opinion.
It's shit that you've broken up, but anyone with half a brain knows it's not as simple as "just apply for a parent visa". Especially when, at your advise, he kept any evidence he would provide geared towards a spouse visa.
You don't have to sign anything but don't be naive over the power you have or the what the consequences might be.

This is daft - they separated in March 2022 - its been less than a year since they separated - he should have applied for a parent visa then in theory but they could have gotten back together. But regardless if he had of applied then he would be less than a year ahead of where he is now.
Suggestion she lie on a legal form is just weird to me - even if he was to move back in they are no longer in a relationship.

Kabalagala · 13/01/2023 06:47

ittakes2 · 13/01/2023 06:39

This is daft - they separated in March 2022 - its been less than a year since they separated - he should have applied for a parent visa then in theory but they could have gotten back together. But regardless if he had of applied then he would be less than a year ahead of where he is now.
Suggestion she lie on a legal form is just weird to me - even if he was to move back in they are no longer in a relationship.

Show quote history

It's not daft at all thanks. If you have knowledge of immigration you know that it's not simple, straightforward or cheap to switch visas. She's the one going back on her word, not him. As his sponsor she holds all the cards and she knows it.

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 10:13

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/01/2023 01:59

She’s more likely to know the ins and outs than her immigrant DH.

Really? Every immigrant I know knows more than every native person I know. He should have done his homework. Actually, forget that, he shouldn't have been coercive and controlling and emotionally abusive and they would still be living together.

OP you don't give someone holding a gun ammunition. You say he is currently blackmailing you. And you are thinking about committing a criminal act, which endangers your job and you generally. And handing him that information. Nope nope nope.

Well given that half my family, including my DH are immigrants, I will respectfully disagree with you on that. I’ve also been the immigrant in my DH’s home country and he knew way more than I did about immigration rules than I did. There can also be a language barrier as well, and a bit much to assume the one who’s operating in a second language is going to be better informed/less confused by government guidance and forms than the one for whom it is a native language and own culture.

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 10:18

Kabalagala · 13/01/2023 05:51

Honestly 17 years together and you've had enough 9 months before ILR? Really? Sounds to me like OP knows exactly how much power she has over his current circumstances.
Anyone who doesn't have experience of current migration systems really doesn't need an opinion.
It's shit that you've broken up, but anyone with half a brain knows it's not as simple as "just apply for a parent visa". Especially when, at your advise, he kept any evidence he would provide geared towards a spouse visa.
You don't have to sign anything but don't be naive over the power you have or the what the consequences might be.

Yes. My thoughts too. My DH literally got his ILR in the post two days ago- almost a year wait due to the backlog.

From what we understand, being in a community of current immigrants, the parent visa is very hard to get and/or keep. There have been a few cases where divorce has led to the immigrant parent being denied a parent visa and removed from the U.K. back to their home country. Try having your DC only see their other parent during the summer holidays by putting them on a plane to Brazil. And good luck getting any CMS too.

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 10:25

@MrsTerryPratchett
Actually, forget that, he shouldn't have been coercive and controlling and emotionally abusive and they would still be living together.

Theres no indication of any of this causing their split. The attempt at coercion is occurring now, at 9mos post breakup and out of desperation because the OP made a promise she couldnt keep which has put him in a precarious situation. Yes, he shouldn’t be acting like this, but the break up of a 17yr marriage does things to people and can make them truly horrible towards each other.

monsteramunch · 13/01/2023 10:28

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 10:25

@MrsTerryPratchett
Actually, forget that, he shouldn't have been coercive and controlling and emotionally abusive and they would still be living together.

Theres no indication of any of this causing their split. The attempt at coercion is occurring now, at 9mos post breakup and out of desperation because the OP made a promise she couldnt keep which has put him in a precarious situation. Yes, he shouldn’t be acting like this, but the break up of a 17yr marriage does things to people and can make them truly horrible towards each other.

There is indication of it in OP's posts and she directly says it caused the break up...

He has been emotionally controlling throughout our relationship which is one of the main reasons I couldn't take it anymore and asked him to move out in March.

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 11:13

monsteramunch · 13/01/2023 10:28

There is indication of it in OP's posts and she directly says it caused the break up...

He has been emotionally controlling throughout our relationship which is one of the main reasons I couldn't take it anymore and asked him to move out in March.

Show quote history

Ah, thanks. I missed that. Sorry.

GoodNightsSleep · 13/01/2023 12:22

It is by no means a given that he will be granted a parental visa, especially if his children do not live with him permanently. The home office has a history of operating a hostile environment with regards to residency visa applications. The Windrush Scandal is called a scandal for good reason.

It seems like OP has already decided not to sign the final part of the spouse visa application and is looking for affirmation here. When alternative advice/views are posted we see of drip feed of new information to support her position: civil service job, coercion by partner, etc. to solicit additional posts to support her decision.

sevenbyseven · 13/01/2023 13:01

Lying on that form would be a criminal offence, which among other things could result in the OP losing her job and her child's father being deported. None of the "drip fed" information changes those basic facts.

HamBone · 13/01/2023 14:31

In summary, she isn't going to sign the form, her husband is upset and being nasty. He's living in a rented room while she and her child live in the marital home (that's probably jointly owned) and paying decent maintenance. As she can't sign the form, she must feel that their relationship is definitely over and they're divorcing.

Aside from his visa issues, this means that the financial situation is going to change, as the house is a marital asset and will probably have to be sold (or she'll have to buy him out) when they divorce. He's threatening not to pay maintenance - whatever he's obliged to pay after they divorce, it'll probably be less as he'll need a proper place to live and host their child during his access time. If they have a 50/50 split, he won't pay any maintenance.

What a mess.

MrsTerryPratchett · 13/01/2023 15:06

Thanks @monsteramunch saved me a cut-and-paste.

@Onnabugeisha the OP hasn't posted very many times. 'Missing' the part about why they broke up is a problem.

And please don't pull the "I'm an immigrant and so is my family" nonsense. I'm trying to count the countries in mine and my extended family's immigration journey and I got to 7 before I gave up. No wait, 9, forgot my cousins. Crap 10, I was blanking the ones in the States. Oops, Australia. I'll stop now. France, now I really will stop. Before I get to 13, that's unlucky. And not counting temporary moves for work, that's LOADS. As far as I'm concerned, immigration is the natural state for people. It is in my family.

Lying on government forms when it's illegal and could lose you your job, not normal. And you don't owe anyone it. Certainly not an emotionally abusive man who has another option to see his son. And is using that son as leverage.

Onnabugeisha · 13/01/2023 16:57

@MrsTerryPratchett
@Onnabugeisha the OP hasn't posted very many times. 'Missing' the part about why they broke up is a problem.

What are you insinuating? I apologised for missing one sentence. Mistakes happen. At least I have the integrity to admit when I’ve made an error.

And please don't pull the "I'm an immigrant and so is my family" nonsense.
Oh, so it’s nonsense when I say it, but not nonsense when you do? Bit hypocritical don’t you think? And a bit aggressive for my “respectfully I disagree” with your earlier objection to my opinion based on my lived experience as an immigrant….my experience is not your cousins experience I admit, but still neither is, I dare say, “nonsense.”

Lying on government forms when it's illegal and could lose you your job, not normal. And you don't owe anyone it. Certainly not an emotionally abusive man who has another option to see his son. And is using that son as leverage

Well yes, oh wait did have you been ‘missing’ the several times I’ve said the OP cannot sign the form? Wow would you like to apologise for writing as if I had said the opposite? I apologised to you when I made such an error, one would think you’d extend me the same courtesy?

mayflower21 · 14/01/2023 09:38

nc1013 · 10/01/2023 22:05

When in 2023 does he expect it to be awarded? Could he not temporarily move in and live an a separate room for a few months for the sake of staying in DC's life?

All sounds very civil with the platonic holiday etc

Agree

mayflower21 · 14/01/2023 09:42

He is your child's father there is a risk they will be separated, why do that?
It was your initiative to move to UK, and you both have gone through a lot of trouble with visa docs and payments already.