Spouse visa renewal / separation

[AutumnEnglishRose]

Dear all,

I'm in a tricky situation with my husband and don't know where to turn for advice.

I'm British, he's not. We were together 17 years, married for 5. We have a little boy aged 6.

We were living in his country when our son was born, then we decided to move to the UK to be nearer my family. My husband applied for and was granted a spouse visa. This is a 5 year route to get permanent residency (Indefinite Leave to Remain or ILR) in the UK.

At first all was ok, but our relationship got increasingly difficult. We renewed his visa 2.5 years ago and it was granted again. Meanwhile our relationship went from bad to worse.

In March 2022, I couldn't take it anymore and asked to separate. He moved out of our home and I remained there with our son. He stayed in regular contact with our son and has done ever since.

At the time we separated, my husband was very worried about the impact on his visa, as he was here on a spouse visa based on our relationship.

At the time, I told him not to worry as I was sure we could just renew the visa - we had been together 16 years and had a child, it had been a genuine relationship all that time, but had sadly ended. Also, we had no plans to divorce yet, just live apart for a while and see how we feel. We decided to keep his post coming to my address and remain registered here for his work, etc.

Nine months later, he needs to renew his visa and I don't think I can sign the spouse declaration. Having read this, it says that "I confirm that we are living together in a relationship like marriage and intend to continue doing so" which is of course, not true. My husband is renting a room with a landlord nearby. We did recently have a family holiday with our son, to visit his native country, however this was platonic.

I'm very scared about the situation - we both work full time, and I am scared that if we apply to renew his visa, then get found out, we could face criminal consequences.

I have tried to have this conversation with him, and I have apologised for saying in the beginning that it would all be fine, as I was not thinking straight in the throes of a painful separation. I have told him that I want to help him given that he is my son's father, but I cannot sign something that could put me at risk of losing my job, or worse.

I have asked him to apply instead for the "parent of a British child" visa, which he is clearly entitled to, as our son is British and settled here. I have offered to support him gathering the evidence for this, which is basically our son's passport and a letter from his school confirming that his dad is involved in his life. This would be easy to obtain.

However, my husband says he is not prepared to do this, as applying for the "parent visa" means re-starting the 5 year clock before he can get permanent UK residency, which he had expected to get this year, 2023, through his current spouse visa route. He said that he wants to continue living and working here to be near our son, but if I refuse to sign the spouse declaration, he feels he will be left with no choice but to leave the UK and return to his country (which is very far away).

This course of action would be devastating for our 6 year old son who has a close, loving relationship with his dad, and who had adjusted well to our separation largely (in my view) because he has remained in close contact with his dad. Losing his dad to move to the other side of the world now, would be devastating. Also, it would be very hard for me to parent him totally alone, as I work long hours, and also depend on the child maintenance support my husband provides.

I have tried saying all this to my husband and implored him to see sense and apply for the Parent Visa, with my support. But he remains firm in his stance that I must sign the document or he will leave. He has also alluded to removing financial support, not having anything more to do with me/our son, etc. He currently provides a decent level of child maintenance support to me, without which I could not afford to continue paying the mortgage on our (small) home and providing for our son.

I am considering signing the document because the alternative - my son losing his father, and financial difficulties - seems even worse right now than the risk of getting into trouble.

Can anyone give any advice? I cannot afford to speak to an immigration lawyer by myself (again, I have suggested this to my husband and offered to pay halves for a consultation but he refused).
I'm desperate to do the right thing for my child, and feel lost.

Thank you

I would sign it . Like someone said , the chances of being found out are 0 to none . Men applying for a parent visa have more hoops to jump than a woman. He could be waiting for at least a year for his first parent visa to be issued. Parent visa can also be refused.
It is his last renewal, I would do it .

The chances of being found out are not zero.

The home office don't just take your word for something.

You don't just sign the form- you have to provide evidence of living together/having a sustained and loving relationship.

Getting a visa under false pretences risks having you deported/removed for many years.

Falsifying visa application documents is a criminal offence.

@sleepyfelines The Op already has all the evidence of them living together ie addresses etc . The home office are not going to come out unless the OP gets reported to them .

Plus you could say she's already committing fraud as they have an address together but he does not live there .

Even if the chances of being found out are low, the consequences are too severe. OP would lose her career and face criminal charges, ex would be deported and banned from the UK for 10 years. It's too big a risk.

Exactly! I find it mind blowing that so many people are encouraging OP to just sign it.

This is Op’s way of being rid of the man so he goes back to his home country. Don’t then moan when he wants to take his child back also.

What level of criminality is ok ?

The hostile environment immigration system is the only criminal thing in this scenario

Let’s just all remember that we live in a country where those same officials that want us all to live by the rules do not follow their own rules when it benefits them.
Starting from the people at the very top.

I think you need to decide what is best for your child and act accordingly.

Years of dealing with the home office/ukvi here myself.

The problem I think he will encounter is proving that he lives at his new address.

When proving address he will need to provide x years of bank, statements, utility bills, HMRC records, mortgages etc and if he doesn’t have that in his new address then legally (I.e. if he makes an application for parental leave to remain) he still lives with you.

He would also have to give his marital status as married.

I don’t think you should lie but I also am not sure you have done enough to prove you have disentangled from him legally/financially enough at this point.

Being an immigrant and having gone through years and years of visa applications until ILR and then citizenship, I understand his point of view. It's a painful process, not just the application process, but the whole time there's always the chance of something happening that might impact the next visa renewal or visa taking too long that might impact work status etc. So it is very stressful and getting ILR is a point where you can potentially relax. So I completely understand having to wait another 5 years for that when he is so close can be very very frustrating. Don't think anyone not in that position will understand it. For the sake of your son, I would have said living together until he gets his ILR is the best option....but you have mentioned that he was emotionally abusive and it's difficult to live with him, so I equally don't think you should put yourself in a situation that may impact your emotional well being. When is his ILR due? Can you come up with some sort of arrangement, e.g., he can keep his place, but have your house as his main address? He can stay a few days a week in the house… but you keep contact with him minimal inside the house in those days? Let him know it’s purely for his visa, lay out your conditions in advance and tell him that you'll only sign if he agrees to them. Get them in writing if needed. Once he gets his ILR and then his citizenship in a year, you’ll be all done and no need for any further visa help from you. But if he applies for FLR, you’ll have to help him with his renewal in 2.5 years and then ILR in 5 years and so on…so it’ll be a long-winded process for you too…

OP does not need to prove ‘they are in a loving relationship’. NO proof is required at the last visa extension beyond recent bills, and other documents they already have.

There is no chance of being found out. And her H will lose a lot more if he tells on her. So - I do think the benefit of her child having a father in the U.K. outweighs all other arguments here.

I was in team 'just sign it' till your security clearance update - given that do NOT under any circumstances sign it. And yes that was a massive drip feed.

It's a tricky situation OP but as you have only recently separated I would consider him moving back in until his permanent status is granted, the separate. Divorce will take a while so it won't be as though you have cheated the system.

If this were the other way round and you had this issue hanging over you as the mother the general consensus of MN would be that he is a c*t and a basard for doing this to you and wants to get you kicked out the country to keep your son for himself.

Did you miss the part where this man is abusive and coercive?
You think she should let him move back in?

2 points jump out to me here: 1, he moved to the UK to be close to your family. The move was at your instigation. Secondly, you told him you could renew the visa and now you're saying you won't, so you've effectively reneged on your word.

If your relationship is civil enough to take a holiday together with your child, I don't see why you can't come up with some kind of arrangement until he gets ILR. I understand your concerns, I really do. He also doesn't sound like he's a nice person. But I do think you can work something out when you're so close. It's in your child's best interests. The parent visa is full of uncertainties and though it's not great he seems to be blackmailing you, he's probably desperate in a way it's hard to understand until you've been through the immigration process yourself. It's awful and dehumanising and there are no guarantees. If he's due to get ILR shortly, you're already near the end of the road and you can both move on.

He’s not the only person to be emotionally blackmailing you, OP. Lots of posters are having a go, as well.

This country is still , apparently , a desirable place to live, partly (maybe mainly) because it still recognises the rule of law. Discounting laws when they don’t suit you is not what makes for a safe and stable environment ( and, Yes, I am aware that ‘other people ‘ do it, but that is a slippery slope.)

You should not lie on an official document, (and nor should your husband actually). You should not lie when you are obtaining your security clearance. Circumstances do not alter cases, that way chaos lies.

Everything else aside I wouldn't lie on any official government documentation, they're disproportionately heavy handed with punishment for these sorts of things vs murder and rape for example

Given that you also have an enhanced security government job - no fucking way!

Your ex may have you over a barrel financially, but being dismissed for gross misconduct would fuck you over even more.

Sorry, but he's just continuing to ride roughshod over you to get what he wants.

Despite all you've said, if it were me, I'd have him move back in, and I'd sign it.

I appreciate this means I have some self worth issues.

We decided to keep his post coming to my address and remain registered here for his work, etc.

I agree that this is a real issue and could scupper his new application. You agreed that for legal purposes, your marital home would remain his official address-all his post goes there, it’s his official address with his workplace, etc. I’m assuming his name is on the mortgage?

How’s he going to prove that he doesn’t live there anymore? I’m guessing he’s a lodger elsewhere as he just has a room.
Tbh, he’s done exactly what MN advises against during a separation-he’s moved out of the marital home, even though he has a right to live there.

As a PP said, you’ve already muddied the waters legally by not making a clean break when you separated. In the eyes of the law, he’s still living in the same house as you and your son. I think you do need to consult an immigration lawyer.

I’m not suggesting that the OP does anything illegal, I just suspect they’ve made a real mess of the situation and they should get proper legal advice instead of making assumptions-they made assumptions when he moved out and look what’s happened.

@AutumnEnglishRose

I have been through divorce and have dealt with immigration issues, as have a lot of my friends.
First if all - take a breath. Nothing catastrophic has happened, whatsoever.
Marriages go through phases, and as part of it sometimes spouses move out and bank somewhere else.
In the eyes of the law - you two are married. And even while you are going through divorce - you are still married. (For example, if one dies before all the stages are completed, inheritance goes the marital route). Filing for divorce puts you in the category - married, but not intend to stay together….

In the eyes of the paperwork you are filling out - you are married. You share finances, address and childcare. You have NOT filed for divorce.

So - filling out that part for the form doesn’t not require you to lie. As to the future intentions - those things are in the grey zone. And people do change their minds.

You need to be pragmatic. You are where you are with your paperwork.

And he can’t be simultaneously applying for the parent visa - while still being married to you, and sharing an address.
And if he doesn’t manage to extend the visa now - he’ll have to leave his job and leave the country.
So - there is only one solution that doesn’t get him deported at this point.

Hypothetically - you (or someone in your situation) can decide to give your relationship another go and go to counselling for the week when you send in the visa renewal. And then a few weeks later give up and decide to separate.
This doesn’t mean they’d need to withdraw that paperwork.
If it needs to give you a piece of mind - remember that all you are signing is what is the case at the moment of actual signing .

Separately - you have been together for a long time. The issues you mentioned - has he ever tried to address them and change?

My advice is to reframe this. It’s not a relationship issue. It’s a legal issue.

Are you sure that the clock would reset on the qualifying time before he can apply for ILR? I think he might be either wrong or using that to be controlling here.

You really need proper advice. Immigration violations have global long lasting consequences - he could get deported and not be able to return to the UK in the worst case scenario. That’s not good for your son. Neither is losing your job.

You need to look at this dispassionately, as much as you can. Immigration rules and mitigating the risks on you and your son are your priorities here, not appeasing your ex. Clear hard rules have to govern your actions here.

Get your own advice, there are cheaper providers out there that can help.

Exactly, @Rainbowshine, they made assumptions in the past, such as keeping the marital home as his legal address, that may now cause complications. No more assumptions, get legal advice so they truly understand their position.

@jsku

In the eyes of the paperwork you are filling out - you are married. You share finances, address and childcare. You have NOT filed for divorce. So - filling out that part for the form doesn’t not require you to lie. As to the future intentions - those things are in the grey zone. And people do change their minds.

But the paperwork requires her to sign that "I confirm that we are living together in a relationship like marriage and intend to continue doing so" which ain't the case because they don't live together. And while there is a paper trail that could be manipulated to pretend he still lives with her, there's also a paper trail showing that he doesn't (as he's presumably got a landlord he pays rent to) so it does require her to lie. Because they are not living together in a relationship.