How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

That makes sense. I’d just make sure if sex is one of the big issues make sure you’re really clear about that and what you need. Then at least you’re working on the right things.

id recommend therapy for yourself is an option too. it’ll help you understand what you need and want.

Fuck me that’s a depressing post

Well, at least the poster has some kind of plan they are trying to execute rather than just being in emotional pain without any coping mechanisms. But yes, pretty bleak, you can feel the pain seeping out of it.

I'll remember that post when the usual MN posts about it being "only sex" are trotted out.

OP. I literally asked you if you still take care of yourself, such as brushing teeth and showering? I didn’t imply you were unhygienic and I certainly didn’t imply it was your fault that you’re in a non sex marriage. If it came across that way then I’m genuinely sorry, those questions were coming from a kind place. Throughout the thread I’ve said how I feel for you, yet you’ve constantly got irate at me and anyone else who has asked questions. I’m not sure entirely what you’re even looking for from this thread as you’re shunning any advice unless it aligns with your narrative.

And yes, I and many other people on here was shocked you used the word feminazi. I did not obsess over that word or ‘lose it’, I just said if any man used that word in my life, my vagina would slam shut. That’s not getting at you and that is the only time I ‘obsessed’ over that word. That does not make me a troll.

Please don’t put words in my mouth. I genuinely was trying to help you and eliminate possible reasons your wife may not be into sex. Never once did I say it was because of you, until I brought up your attitude and asked if you were like this around her or not.

Anyhow happy new year and I wish you well.

Is it OK to ask a DW with low libido for "favours"? Or is that completely unacceptable?

I think one issue (men or women) have is that there is this expectation that sex will happen ‘on tap’ (regardless of the frequency) when you are married. That it’s a given.
Aka: it’s easy to live with having sex every 2~3 months if you are single but it feels unbearable if you are married.

There is also this expectation that sex = intimacy. When actually they are two different things (you can be intimate Wo sex and have sex Wo being intimate). Intimacy is essential Imo in a couple much much more than sex. So it might be worth looking at what you are looking for and what ‘fancying’ means to you.

It’s clear you’d like to have some understanding. However,
1- you are assuming that your DW can explain clearly why she feels that way. She might not have that understanding herself. She might have shared how much she understands herself about how she feels and ut felt like excuses to you etc….
2- you are assuming that understanding will help you solve the issue. Will it?
What will change fut you if you learn that the issue is <insert cause>. I’m going to assume your DW would have done something if she knew. Otherwise, I’d say it’s not the real reason. And it’s also assuming you can do something about it. What if you can’t? (Eg her libido is now very very low) it brings you back to simple acceptance.

You were mentioning counselling and couple counselling to sort it out.
id actually start with counselling for yourself. Understand why having sex every 2 months is an issue. What are you missing, what are you expectations, why is ut so hard to communicate around that (you’ll probably find that the issue with communication is a much wider issue). Get full clarity for yourself incl if you’d REALLY be happy to settle to a ‘not as often as I’d wish’ situation.

Just now your hope for couple counselling is for it to help YOU manage the situation (not fir you as a couple iyswim). You want her to understand the effects it has in you and fur either have sex more often or to help you accept the ‘not as often’ through understanding.
I think you won’t get benefit from couple counselling if you approach it as ‘what is there in it fir me’ vs ‘what is there for us a couple’. (Plus your DW will feel it big way. It’s not going to help her want to make an effort for you either)

Brushing teeth.😂
Every dead bedroom is either pots and pans, a cup left on the side, brushing your teeth or some other form of the man is at fault.
Why do men come on Mumsnet for advice? Most of the replies are projecting unpleasant ranting.
People get together and have sex, some are all day for 2yrs, and some are a few times a week. For most this settles into a pattern. Then life happens work, babies, familial issues at times life intensifies. and the other is the first to be de-prioritized. I think partners in relationships for whatever reason just become negligent to each other. I know this is what has happened in my relationship. DP always says it's impossible to balance friends, careers, children, hobbies, etc, without the relationship being impacted. Overscheduling beware.
Counseling is the best advice, you cannot live a life where one just runs at the first hurdle. I know for us, I don't want him to move out, we have a home and I have an adopted family. To burn all that over sex is just absurd.

I only brought up the brushing teeth as I know someone in real life who flat out refuses to have sex with her fiancé because he doesn’t brush his teeth or wash his genitalia… She can’t be the only one. She doesn’t tell him either which is sad. Communication is definitely key.
In the case I just mentioned, his fault he didn’t look after himself but her fault for not communicating the issue. Takes two and all that.

@LosingIt2022
Good luck with everything. I really hope you get to find out what the issue is with your wife and I hope she has the courage to say it, if there is something, and you can work on things together or you can decide what your next move will be. Don’t suffer though as, in many years down the line, you will regret it.

I completely get you Op. I am in the same position, but I'm female. DH really isn't bothered by sex, whereas my sex drive is through the roof.

I've read a lot of these threads on MN, and they always go the same way. You will be called angry (of course you're angry), coersive, maybe even a rapist (I'm only on page 4, so not sure whether you've been accused of that yet, but if not, it'll come soon enough). MN seems to be full of women who hate their husband's and who never want any sex, so you'll never get a balanced view. I see you've even been called a Praying Mantis, FGS.

The popular opinion seems to be, that in order to receive some sexual crumbs from your Partner, you must run them a bath with candles, twice a day, every day for a year, do all the cooking, cleaning, bed changing, food shopping and clean the kitchen floor with a toothbrush, cut the grass with nail clippers, go through the wardrobe to Narnia, do seventy laps of the forest, climb Mount Everest in flip flops, commit Hari-Kari with a blunt blade, carve the Sunday chicken with a spoon, punch yourself in the face 10 times, and then maybe, just maybe they will be in the mood for sex - as long as it's the 3rd Tuesday in the month and a full moon. God forbid, that you actually would just like your Partner to look at you and actually see you, as a sexual being and want to jump your bones, just because they can think of nothing else they'd like to do more. God forbid!

The last time we had sex was 28th October. Yes, I know the date, because the sex is so infrequent. It lasted 5 minutes. And the only reason was because we were on holiday, and he doesn't want me to say that we didn't even have holiday sex. Box ticked! No birthday sex for me, no Christmas sex, no New Years sex.

We do talk about it though, and he says all of the right things. But nothing ever changes. According to MN, I shouldn't be angry. Well, tough, because I am VERY angry. He can find time to work full time, play games, see friends, but can't seem to find 5 minutes for a quick shag. And believe me, a 5 minute shag once a week would make me whole.

It's hard, because everything else about our relationship is 10 out of 10. If we could fix this, we'd be Gold.

After all is said and done though, I don't think it has anything to do with housework or the mental load - I do all of that. It's as simple as this : I want and need sex. He doesn't.

It's akin to smoking : my DH smokes. Only about 5 a day, but cannot go a day without those 5 fags. I don't smoke. There is literally nothing he could do, that would make me fancy a cigarette. He could spring clean the house naked, run me a million candelit baths, I am never going to fancy a cigarette, because I don't.

No idea what the answer is. -not helpful--

Just outsource

Maybe he's already doing the same.

Not is it’s not ‘just sex’ to one of you.

sex for many of us is a different connection. It can be an emotional, even life fulfilling act. It is something joyous and beautiful to share with a partner that brings you closer together both physically but also emotionally. To call that ‘just sex’ to one of us who experiences it like that is absurd. It makes no sense

I don't remember the exact words, but she said something like she would have wanted to find me in bed but I was working and she didn't want to disturb me

Yeah, that's just bullshit. It's so she can say "But I do want sex, I wanted it last Thursday, but you were too busy" And quelle surprise, the moment has now passed. If she had really wanted it, she would have come to where you were and jumped on you. She didn't. No matter what they say, look at the outcome. Did you have sex that day? No. There you go.

Exactly this ☝️👏👏👏

He's definitely not getting any elsewhere. He has ED most of the time.

What an absolutely ludicrous generalisation

I still think the issue is that sex has become something you want and she doesn't, something you take from her and she gives to you.

Ask yourselves - in this polarity, what is missing? And reframe it.

What is missing for HER is her need and desire for sex for herself and with the idea that it is a gift you give to her for her enjoyment and pleasure.

What is missing for YOU is the idea that you may not want sex per se. What you might actually want is love, connection and respect and to be prioritised from time to time. Sex is a shorthand for that.

If you are to move forward you both have to get out of this lose lose polarity that you want it, she doesn't want it. You would like it, she withholds it.

It just makes you incredibly frustrated and full of hatred and contempt for her - no wonder she doesn't feel like having sex with you.

And she probably feels incredibly caught in a bind of mixed up guilt and resentment and not knowing what on earth to do.

Ask yourselves what is this situation REALLY about?

I suspect you feel comfortable framing your needs as "wanting sex". That's normative for men and doesn't involve any vulnerabilities. But would you be able to frame your needs as they really are in a conversation with her? That you depend on her, you miss her? You need her and you feel lonely in your marriage? Those things are more difficult as you have to make yourself very vulnerable. those are the things I think you feel. But you don't tell her that - you tell her you need sex and you are frustrated and angry that this is so difficult.

If you could soften yourself towards you wife I think she would soften towards you.

She can't talk to you about sex and you can't talk to her about love.

Also, judging from your (understandable to some extent) resentment that is extremely obvious from your posts, you need to be wary of the fact that even if you both 'fix' the sexual and intimacy issues between you, there is a chance the damage is done. You've been checked out of a large aspect of the relationship for a long time, and this kind of empathic rupture between partners takes a very long time to heal.

What's coming across strongly is that she is not willing to prioritise you. Personally I think that's wrong. Good idea to try the couples counselling but ultimately her actions are telling you how much she rates (or doesn't rate you).

@Bumpsadaisie that is the best post in this thread

It isn't sad, it's actually quite pathetic. Why be in that relationship at all?

I did in fact make a couple of suggestions in the thread, which I thought were helpful.

I dont believe you should just be able to throw disparaging terms around. Justifying the use of feminazi by saying it comes from your wife was laughable.

All you had to do was so "oops shouldn't have said it". 😬

Perhaps you should consider whether backing down occasionally amight be helpful in your marriage as well.

Why is so hard for posters to accept that their dw or dh doesn’t fancy them anymore. I’m not trying to hurt the op but it’s often very simple.
It’s a common tale among the women I know. The ones who are having sex fancy their dh, the ones who are not make comments about some flaw or other that turns them off.
It might not even be that the dh or dw has let themselves go but in long term relationships it’s not uncommon to get bored or just go off someone. Lots of women do settle I have found.
Not everything has to have these deep reasons or meanings. If you fancy someone as an adult you want to have sex with them it’s natural. Yes sex can mean more and be deeper than that but often it’s not and we still have these primal instincts.
The non sex wanting partner should be honest and communicate this through and it’s unfair on the other if they don’t.
Im sorry op but I’d be looking at a simpler answer even if that is hurtful.

On faking and fancying each other:
Yes, it is entirely possible she might be faking it. I do not expect to be able to tell if she fakes an orgasm

This comment really stands out to me. An orgasm is so much more that a few Oohs and Ahs. I don't think any woman could successfully fake vaginal muscle spasms. It's making me think that she is faking every time, if you aren't sure.

I’m in exactly the same boat as you and feel exactly the same, my wife thinks we to old for sex her friends don’t, so why should we, ( only early 50’s), I have the made the same calculation and decided I am going to divorce her, life is too short to live like this and I don’t feel any guilt about it at all.