How to cope with an almost sexless marriage? Can counselling really help?

[LosingIt2022]

Hoping this is the most appropriate subforum.
I'm looking for some advice because the lack of sex life is putting a huge strain on our relationship.
I want to propose some form of couples therapy / counselling because this is the only way I can think of to make her understand how important this is to me; I do not expect miracles but I do not want to leave any stones unturned.
If nothing changes, I would at least like to understand if there are some coping strategies to help me not lose my sanity - I am banging my head against the wall while dying inside and she doesn't seem to take notice.

What are your experiences?
Is there really a solution for couples whose sex drives change so much over time?

The story:

I'm male, my wife and I are both mid 30s, we have 2 kids.

I have always had a higher sex drive but, while mine has remained constant, hers has been constantly plummeting.

It used to be about once a week, I imagined it would have become less frequent, but I never imagined once every 2-3 months.

When it happens, she gets really lost in the moment, which is amazing, but it has simply moved at the very bottom of her priority list: it will only happen if she's not too tired, if she has already finished her favourite TV series, if that night her best friend doesn't call her to rant about her new life as a divorcee, etc etc.

Any attempt at experimenting has been shot down mercilessly: new lingerie makes her feel under pressure, toys are not her thing.

I have tried to plan and set some time for ourselves in advance, but she says this makes her feel too much pressure.

Any attempt at communicating is very hard because she just does not want to talk about these things; she was brought up in a very conservative, not religious but Jane-Austen-like environment.

I asked if she would ever be willing to, well, tease me; there are times when she wants to cuddle and nothing more, is that really that different? Apparently for her yes, she was horrified at the idea.

I got really, really cross because a couple of weeks ago she told me in the morning that she would have actually wanted me but I was in the loft, working. Why didn't you call me? So I should just wait in bed for you to finish your TV series, on the off chance that once in a blue moon you might actually want me, but there can be no communication or planning?

I have lost count of the number of times I told her how I feel rejected and unimportant, and how I feel less important than a stupid TV series. It just doesn't register, it's as if I were speaking a different language.

There are lots of other things in the relationship which work really well, and they are a huge reason why I fancy her so much, but this remains a big problem.
I often wonder: had I known it would have ended up like this, would I have married this person and had 2 kids?

Oh ffs how hard is it? Watch a few George clooney films, buy her little funny tokens, cuddle her, touch her arm, make hr feel adored.
my Italian bf was brilliant at this, he’d notice my new lipstick, compliment me on a new perfume. Bring me an iced drink.
made me feel cherished and beautiful.
sex would be little kisses in the neck, a kind twinkle in his eyes, and he would devote hours to touching and stroking . I’d feel loved and safe. Certainly not’heres some saucy lingerie and a toy that will turn me on’

my English bf would give me a hug and straight away move his hips into mine, grab my bosoms. And want sex. foreplay was a token grope of the tits then away we went. And yes I ‘really got into it’ I wanted it to finish so I could relax.
so yes, I did feel pressured and wary of any hugs at all.
land no, to anyone who wants a lesson, lying in bed waiting for her to finish her chores and come to you, makes you just another chore.
Not cool.

This! 100%!!!

No. I am not deliberately ignoring anything.

Open marriages and cheating are just not me; I know that can work for other people, but I'm not other people. I also appreciate people may change over time so never say never, but, at least right now, that's not me.

I am simply saying I am not willing to consider drastic actions before having at least tried some more to get to the bottom of the issue (ie counselling to at least try to improve communication). I am aware that it may well lead nowhere and drastic actions might be called for eventually, but I must, want to, need to know that I haven't left any stone unturned.

I also find it quite shallow to hear "pack up and leave" with no consideration for the children. I'm not of the school of thought that parents must stay together at all costs, but when so much else in a marriage works well and the couple co-parents well it's not the same as when they are fighting all the time in front of the children.

Then organise the counselling and prepare to live without sex or with that horrible grudging duty sex. It's not the end of the world, well, so people tell me.

And open marriages and affairs happen precisely because, as you say, pack up and leave can seem extreme when otherwise you co-parent well and life is good

@Moomoola
"to anyone who wants a lesson, lying in bed waiting for her to finish her chores and come to you, makes you just another chore."

It is shocking how poor the text comprehension skills of so many people can be. This has never happened ! What kind of a caveman monster do you think I am?

My point was completely different: there was once an occasion where she wanted to watch something I didn't like, so I decided to finish some work (my work is flexible and I can do quite a lot of it at night if needed). This was after I had finished all the chores btw. I don't remember the exact words, but she said something like she would have wanted to find me in bed but I was working and she didn't want to disturb me. So my point was, I get it that any kind of planning may be a turn off for some people, but given our jobs commitments etc, what does she want, for me to wait for her in bed? That is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from me actually waiting for her in bed while she finishes the chores, which is something which has never happened and never will * ....

You get angrier and more condescending with each post. Chill.

Wives say that, they don’t always mean it. “Oh damn, I wanted to pounce on you but you were busy, oh well”. Unlikely she meant it in all honesty. She would have disturbed you if she wanted it.

Do you brush your teeth everyday? Do you shower everyday? Do you ever take her out with no underlying obligation of sex? Do you date her? I think if I was in your position I’d probably be YouTubing some videos from Italians or French men with tips for dating, then include those in your day to day interaction with her.

One previous poster pointed out that women seldom lose their sex drive altogether, they just lose it for certain people. A lot of us are trying to help you but you’re just having little paddies without taking on board some of the constructive advice, just deflecting with constantly pointing out how wonderful you are and how much of a TV addicted slob your wife is (which I find hard to believe, but I’m not there, so…).

@ExtraOnions @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles @category12 @Aussiegirl123456
Why don't you go back to your echo chamber and leave me alone? And leave this threads to those who have managed to make useful contributions? Which doesn't mean agreeing with me, it means providing insightful, useful, actionable feedback, even if it means being reminded of unpleasant possibilities.

Please, please, pretty please?

I mean, after all you have already determined that I am some kind of caveman only interested in sex, right, so why waste time with me? I am clearly hopeless.

You hold The Truth, and anyone who disagrees, regardless of gender, is clearly wrong.
There can be no discussion because any civilised attempt at doing so is actually mansplaning, so, again, why waste any more time on such a hopeless case?

@Aussiegirl123456 has even figured out that, since I dare disagree with her, of course the issue must be my hygiene. She opened my eyes! I had until now always thought that farting with a whiskey breath was the way to conquer a woman, I now know that's not the case. Thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my heart thank you!
This is exactly the kind of insightful, not toddler-like tit-for-tat, response that is incredibly valuable, that would be even more so for someone in a more precarious emotional state than me, and that of course people like you would expect and appreciate if the roles were reversed.

@2pence Thank you for your comments about stepkids. It is one of the few balanced comments which actually take into account that with kids it's much more complicated. No, I most definitively would not want to put my kids through that. But, even if there were no kids, I wouldn't want to take drastic actions before having at least tried some form of counselling.

@themanwho Thank you for your kind words. How to frame why I want counselling is obviously crucial. The focus should be on communication, not sex itself. I think the focus should be that there is a breakdown in communication and I want us to do all that's possible to fix that.

@Notyetacatlady Yes, I appreciate she may have lost interest in me, but at least I demand to know the truth. Despite what some people may think of me, counselling is not a way to get more sex, it's a way to try to improve communication, so that I can have more clarity on where the issues are (including with me, I know I'm not blameless, to be clear) and what, if anything, can be done about it.

As for our interests, what I was trying to say is that we started off with having the same amount of 'me' day but she now gets way more. I'm not complaining, she deserves them, and I have not abolished all the 'me' day for me, that would be recipe for disaster and resentment, of course.

Man comes on for a female perspective. Females contribute said perspectives. Man gets angry that they don’t match his. Tantrum.

Funny as.
Can fucking tell by your attitude why she won’t have sex with you. Wonder if she’s getting it while she’s “at the gym”.

Never ever said you were unhygienic, you prat. I was just asking if you take care of yourself or if you’ve let yourself go. Eliminating possibilities. You know, trying to help you. Like you asked.

This is the answer you were looking for:

Oh OP, poor you. You’re a knight in shining armour, working all hours and helping around the home. She obviously finds you irresistible as she wants you dreadfully bad while you’re working and my goodness, she really loses herself in the moment when the occasion does happen. She’s just a lazy slob who is addicted to the TV. She doesn’t deserve you.

There you go, chew on that, hope that helps. Weirdo.

OP has already said that he doesn't want to cheat.

It's easy to say LTB but the risk is that he doesn't get 50:50 custody of the kids. Even if he were to get 50:50 custody, he'd still miss out on seeing his kids 50% of the time. That's a huge price to pay.

OP, just wanted to mention coping strategies as I have concluded that things aren't going to change, and if I can manage until the DCs are older, life will be happier for me in the interim. I have found the following helpful:

Recognise that you are no longer lovers - friends, coparents etc. yes, but not lovers. This makes sharing a bed difficult so I have rearranged my sleep schedule to allow me to be asleep when DW goes to bed, and I get up much earlier than her. This has the added benefit of allowing me to spend time with DCs while she has a lie in. One day I hope to have separate rooms.

Find hobbies, activities etc. that allow you to focus on things you enjoy. My interests and DWs are different so this means we have a break from each other. It also means I can take DCs with me to get out and about, again taking the pressure of parenting/childcare off DW.

Try to avoid time alone with DW, this doesn't mean opting out of family life, or maintaining a respectful and loving household. It just means that as much time as possible is spent as a family, reinforcing your roles as parents (at this stage at least), rather than as a couple.

Focus on the longer term, it maybe years away, but try to plan ahead for a time when you can start to plan for your own happiness and goals.

Take on as much of the household work and mental load as possible. Not always easy I've found as DW objects to this on occasion! But it does mean my focus is away from my marital concerns and allows me to concentrate on improving DCs and by extension DWs lives, which is a benefit in itself.

Also, important to note, I have explored all kinds of coping strategies in the past, from pharmaceutical, counselling, psychotherapy (CBT), hormone treatment, as well as trying to change my own behaviours and thinking through "self help strategies". None of this has been successful in bridging the communication gap unfortunately, and ultimately if you're two different people with differing ideas on what a relationship should be/evolve into then acceptance is the only course of action if you want to maintain the status quo for whatever reasons - DCs, lifestyle, financials etc.

Could be worth Googling "radical acceptance" too. I found it a bit of a chore if I'm honest, but I understand it helps a lot of others in similar circumstances.

All the best.

@Aussiegirl123456

Some people can’t be helped. His breath may be ok but his attitude stinks

@Ivyonafence
"You said that you get along really well and have never had an argument. Then in your own post you write"

??? I never said exactly that! Maybe read what one writes before putting words in their mouth? I said that there is so much which works well and there are so many important things, on which we see other couples arguing all the time and in some cases even separating, on which we have never fought and have always been completely on the same wavelength. This doesn't mean that we never have an argument on anything!!

Also, on that specific incident, I didn't argue furiously, I managed to remain calm, didn't raise my voice one bit, and managed to say that that is an example where better communication would have improved things within us

@ILoveMyNewThermosFlask Thank you for sharing your experience.
Her having an affair now is unlikely, and not because I'm Brad Pitt :) I'd like to say because it's not what she does, but I won't because I get it how deluded and naive it may be, and how many partners who get cheated on hadn't seen it coming. It's unlikely simply from a 'logistical' point, given her type of work (I won't get into details). Unless she found someone on her same building, which is not impossible.

But, in most ways, the crucial point is whether / to what extent she is still attracted to me, and what, if anything, I can do about it. This is one of the main reasons I want counselling, to improve communication and get to the bottom of the issue. Even if the final outcome may not be what I want.

@Aussiegirl123456 You are an abusive troll who insults the people who dare disagree with you. It is clear you fail to realise the toll your abuse could take on someone on a more precarious emotional state. Again, please, please, pretty please, leave me alone.

We have a disagreement on the use and meaning of a specific word. Who is the one having a tantrum because they can't accept that someone else, regardless of gender, does not agree with Their Truth?

I would kindly invite you to reflect that I have taken on and been grateful for useful, insightful, actionable feedback, even when it means stuff I do not exactly find thrilling or exciting, like being reminded that she may not be attracted to me anymore, that I must consider the very real possibilities that the relationship will never go back to what it once was, that she might be cheating now or might cheat in the future, that all of this may be caused or exacerbated by something I did / am doing which she doesn't feel comfortable talking about, etc.
None of this is pleasant, but it's insightful and useful, and I am thankful for being reminded of all of that.

Now, again, please leave me alone. Thank you.

@LosingIt2022 mate, I was directly quoting you. I copy /pasted from your post. How is that putting words in your mouth?

You said you argued furiously. And now you say you stayed calm.

Which is it?

@rudeboy1977 That sounds awful... Maybe you said it and I missed it, but: do you have kids? Would it be financially ruinous to separate?
Are these the reasons why you are not going to counselling?

It seems to me that, by refusing counselling, you are just brushing under the carpet a problem which in the meanwhile is getting worse and worse.

@Keepithidden Thank you for your thoughts on coping.

I stayed calm in that very moment. I argued furiously when she brought it up again a second time in another moment. I can see the confusion on that point.

As for never arguing on anything, no, I never said that.

I don’t think so mate. I think you should be upfront and clear. You started this thread titled ‘almost sexless marriage’.. if that is what is the front issue for you then name it.

if you say it’s communication issues and you fix those.. you still wont be happy. worse still if you trick her into therapy saying it’s about communication.. that’s not a good way to start. also, she knows it’s about sex. Pretending it’s something else will do you no good.

Sex is one of the main issues in unhappy marriages and divorces. For many (most?) of us it’s deeply significant. For myself, I don’t feel attractive or loved if we do not have an erotic connection and are having sex frequently. When we have sex more often I am happier and I feel our relationship is special. I love my wife more when we have sex. It’s a primal deep feeling for me and our relationship was in trouble when we stopped having sex regularly.

have a look at Esther perrel’s Tedtalk . It helped me get the vocabulary and confidence to address it with my wife.

You've been given some very good advice here on how to approach suggesting counseling. Focus on improving communication and connection.

I'm interested in the fact that you used the word "demand" regarding your desire for her to communicate more openly. A few things:

1. You are absolutely right that a healthy relationship requires loads of communication. I'm not arguing with that.
2. However if she is anxious or uptight about communicating about certain things, approaching her with a "demand" mindset is likely to just make her feel more anxious and uptight, and therefore to be counterproductive.
3. Ultimately, you can't control or change her. You can only control or change yourself. She needs to make changes for this relationship to work (I'm not arguing with that!) but so do you, and you can't make HER change, you can only change YOUR approach.

In other words, couples counseling will only help if you both approach it with an open mind and a willingness to face uncomfortable things about yourselves, and work on them to save the marriage. For you that might mean letting go of that "demand" mindset and the anger and contempt underlying your posts, and being willing to really listen to your wife and put yourself in her shoes.

She needs to really listen to you too, but if you approach the counseling as "this is a chance for my wife to be told to fix her flaws so we can go back to having sex more often" then I doubt it will work.

In other words, growing as a person and as a couple takes a healthy dose of humility and self-awareness and willingness to let down your defenses. That's true for both of you, but I'm saying it to you because you're the one posting here....and also because to be frank you sound a bit like you think you're in the right and the purpose of the counseling is to "fix" her. Approach it as a joint opportunity and you might get somewhere.

Thank you all for your contributions. Trying to wrap up:

Counselling is key. How I will frame the proposal of counselling will be crucial. I think it has to be about communication, as in: there is a breakdown in communication, this is affecting us, I think we need external help. I get it I'm probably not helping myself, there is probably something I am doing/not doing which is making it worse, and I think we need external help to get through this

I fully appreciate the outcome of the counselling may not be what I want; it may even open her eyes to how/why she no longer wants me, and it may actually cause the relationship to end. It's not a reason not to do it, because I want to get to the bottom of the issue, however unpleasant the outcome.

I am incredibly bitter and angry at the moment and obviously this isn't helping. I need to calm down and try to take my mind off it to the extent possible. I have a few things in mind but they're very specific to my situation, interests and friends so I won't be sharing details that could identify me.

Better communication would also help me understand better what makes her feel valued and appreciated as a person, as a partner, and not just as a bag of flesh. Thinking back, I guess I could and should have been clearer about how much I appreciate all the things which work so well for us (especially when they have caused the breakdown of quite a few couples we know). I intend to remedy that and to tell her more often and more clearly.

Better communication should also help me understand better how I can express affection without making her feel pressured that there is an expectation of sex. I guess it doesn't take a genius to figure out that displays of affections (I don't mean anything sexual, even just a hug and a compliment) in moments where it is clear there is no possibility of sex (eg her mum has just rung the door) could/should help.

There might also be medical issues involved and it's worth investigating; someone mentioned hormones, thyroid, etc. That was very useful, certainly more useful than the stereotypical accusation that if she's tired it is obviously the man's fault.

The most difficult outcome would be if she still wants me as a partner but her sex drive has vanished, and she wants a sexless (or almost) marriage. In many ways it would be worse than being told she doesn't want me anymore at all, not even as a partner. It would be incredibly hard to decide what to do then. I know it is a possibility. But let's cross that bridge when we get there.

Aussie girl hasn’t been abusive or trolling at all. I read the full thread. It wasn’t until you insulted them that she finally gave you a well deserved mouthful - maybe a bit OTT but seemed they genuinely wanted to help you. Neither have the other posters put words in your mouth.
It is a shame you are like this.

@themanwho "if you say it’s communication issues and you fix those.. you still wont be happy. worse still if you trick her into therapy saying it’s about communication.."
I see your point. And I see how it might be perceived as 'tricking'.
In my mind it's a bit more nuanced than that. In my mind it's more nuanced than that.
Yes, an almost sexless marriage is a big issue. But it's the lack of communication which is doing my head in because it prevents me from understanding what the causes are and what, if anything, I can do about it.

Maybe I should be clearer about how it's a combination of the two. How the lack of sex is affecting me, and how I feel useless and powerless because I would really like to understand what the causes are and if I can do anything about it.

I mean, if she said something like "I still want you as my partner, I still fancy you, just not as often as 10 years ago, can you live with that?" at least it would give me some clarity and I'd like to think that yes, I can live with that.

That is very different from: "maybe I might want you once in a blue moon and I won't even discuss how/why".

Good luck, op. It's a difficult situation to be in, but a very common one.
I think I said before, sorry to repeat, organise the counselling and the related child care yourself - takes another mental load off her

@Wintercandyapple
"Aussie girl hasn’t been abusive or trolling at all. I read the full thread. It wasn’t until you insulted them that she finally gave you a well deserved mouthful - maybe a bit OTT but seemed they genuinely wanted to help you."

You lot are clearly oblivious to how that kind of language, the implication it's all the man's fault, the snarky comments on personal hygiene etc, can take a toll on a person in a precarious emotional state. If I had been in a worse place, if my mental health had been worse, if I had already had other issues, that kind of language and gaslighting could have been disastrous. That is the abuse.

But maybe you disagree. That's fine, I can live with that. It's not me who has an hissy fit when someone disagrees.

" Neither have the other posters put words in your mouth."

Someone thought I had said we never argue on anything. I never said that.
A couple of people thought I wait for her in bed while she does her chores. I never wrote that, that has never happened.
A few people thought she's still breastfeeding our 5-year old.

It's shocking how people pick up 5 words out of 10, mix them with whatever is in their heads, come up with something completely different and use it to launch very violent accusations.